Value (and desireability) of a MK III

[Vaughn Skow]

Hi all,

I'm always on a tone quest for that "holy grail" tone (arn't we all). I'm curently heavily invested in the vintage Fender thing. I have a '67 BF Super Reverb (with a few pedals) as my main rig and a '65 BF Bassman head with a Marshall 4-10 cab (1965A) as a back-up. In the studio I also use a '61 Brown Fender 2-10 Super and a '49 TV front Fender Pro. I have 46 electric guitars ... but my main axes are a '64 reissue Strat w/ varrious pickup replacements and a '92 SRV strat. Tone wise, I go for SRV/ZZ Top and 70's/80's rock. I'm close, but...

So ... on to the Mesa thing! I've always wanted a Mesa Boogie. I remember years ago at a jam playing a guys '64 Strat through his MK II ... wow! That was the coolest tone/sustain/vibe I've ever experienced! I always keep my eyes open for a great deal on a MK II (playing is mostly my hobby, so I try to spend sensibly) ... and haven't ran accross one yet. I've played through a lot of newer Mesa amps ... and have not been impressed at all! Un-inspired and lifeless clean tones, and distorted tones that sound ... well, almost like a bad modeling amp (think angry bumble-bees).

So, on to the Mk III ... I just ran into a dead-mint MK III widebody head with all the options in a local pawn shop at what seems like a reasonable price. I figure this could mate nicely with my Marshall cab. I can't play through it first ... and all sales are final. So ... could any of you share your impressions on the tone and desireability of the MK III as well as what a good deal really is?

Thanks! -Vaughn-

 

[fdesalvo]

Hey, check out www.harmonycentral.com >user reviews>amps>browse by manufacturer>bingo! Be prepared to sort through tons of hyperbole-plagues reviews!

 

[scottcrud]

Hey Vaughn,

Depending on what features are on it I.E. Reverb, Simulclass, graphic EQ etc.

$550-850 on a head. A combo will usually run higher, depending on if it's a hardwood cab or tolexed cab. Hope this helps. If you pass on it, send me the info please.

 

[dylan7620]

I've played through a lot of newer Mesa amps ... and have not been impressed at all! Un-inspired and lifeless clean tones, and distorted tones that sound ... well, almost like a bad modeling amp (think angry bumble-bees).
Thanks! -Vaughn-

hey there and welcome to the forum!
just wondering... what new mesas have you tried out?

 

[Vaughn Skow]

Hi and thanks,

Dylan, you're gonna hate me ... but the Mesa's I was most dissapointed in were the Nomad serries. I played through a 1-12 and a 4-10 ... I was expecting to LOVE the 4-10, but was very dissapointed. I've played through several "rectifier" series amps and they seem to "hyped" for me ... not an honest, natural good tone. I've also played through several of the new F serries amps with great dissapointment.

Maybe I've just spent too much time in the land of classic Fenders and have started to take their honesty for granted. However, there is somthing that's just missing from my Fenders ... even though they are great amps in their own right. I'm looking for somthing that "sings" a bit more ... you know real honest sustain and super-rich harmonic content without sounding a bit like a buzz-saw (ie solid state). I'm really still trying to nail SRV's tone I guess...

The head I've found has all the features,
Simul-class (w/ EL 34's and 6L6's)
Reverb
Graphic

So, it's probably a great deal ... I just need to decide if it's a great deal for me! Again anyone with comments on how the MK III compares to a great MK II ... I'd love to hear from you. Monday I plan to go down and get the ser# and color code off of it. Scott, I'll let you know if I decide to pass on it.

There is also a great hardwoodwood/wicker MK IIA in Nashville ... but at two grand, it's kind of out of my price range ... and I'm not sure I'd love the IIA's tone as much as later MK II's
-VS-

 

[RussB]

The clean of a Mark series sucks... :shock:


...in comparison to your Fenders. If you want the III for the drive and lead tones, you might be happy.

...I have a '67 BF Super Reverb (with a few pedals) as my main rig and a '65 BF Bassman head with a Marshall 4-10 cab (1965A) as a back-up. In the studio I also use a '61 Brown Fender 2-10 Super and a '49 TV front Fender Pro. I have 46 electric guitars...

(playing is mostly my hobby, so I try to spend sensibly)

These comments made me laugh-out-loud

 

[scottcrud]

Well if it's in good condition, the last few "loaded" simul class MKIII heads I've seen on e-bay go from $700-850. RussB is right, sorta, since the channels are shared it's not really possible to get a great clean tone and great lead tone, it's really one or the other. And RussB is right that the MKIII's clean will not sound as good as the Fenders you're used to playing, but for a high gain guy like me, I think the MKIII's cleans are pretty good.

Good Luck and let us know how you make out.

 

[Boogiebabies]

The clean of a Mark series sucks... :shock:


...in comparison to your Fenders. If you want the III for the drive and lead tones, you might be happy.

...I have a '67 BF Super Reverb (with a few pedals) as my main rig and a '65 BF Bassman head with a Marshall 4-10 cab (1965A) as a back-up. In the studio I also use a '61 Brown Fender 2-10 Super and a '49 TV front Fender Pro. I have 46 electric guitars...

(playing is mostly my hobby, so I try to spend sensibly)

These comments made me laugh-out-loud

.


You mean he has 46 guitars, but spends sensibly...

The strings alone are half the USA's GNP. I think it is time for an intervention or Dr. Phil. When I went on the meds I cut it from 30 to 15.
How many trophy bucks you got hangin on yer wall?

 

[axwielding1]

I think tyhe Mark III is great. I have a friend who has a 1966 trwin reverb with altec speakers, and A/B'd with my blue stripe Mark III.
Now, I use 2 EV loaded thieles, but a very similar tone to the twin was with these settings and a strat...
vol-5 pulled
treb-5
bass-2
mid-5
master-2
presence 7....reverb-8
then lead drive-4
lead master-to match clean volume
With the graphic, you can make alot of changes, but I set mine on "auto" which will engage it on lead only.. Then I just drop the mids slightly, and leave everything near the middle. I go for the same tone as you mostly, and the mark III will get them. But that SR has just gotta sound great driven with a TS808!!!! You can push that clean setting with a TS808 as well with some great results...
ax. :twisted:

 

[Vaughn Skow]

Humm ... well, I have a lot of guitars because I've been playing and buying guitars for the last 29 years! I have been lucky enough to stumble onto some really great deals along the way ... and I do have one or two that are actually fairly valuable ... however, many are simply "flavor guitars" ... not necessarily things that cost a bunch of money … like my first “cool” electric, a 1976 Kramer with the Aluminum neck … yep, still got it. There have also been some awesome finds along the way ... my mint Sears Silvertone with (tube) amp in the case ... bought it at a yard sale for $25 ... There is also my main E slide guitar, something a trash man buddy of mine pulled out of a dumpster 25 years ago … I actually don’t know exactly what it is, but is says “Gibson” on the headstock … it’s a hollow body and has been severely bastardized. Ten Years back I actually found a 1960 LesPaul at a Pawn Shop in my wife’s home town of Pulaski TN and bought it at the asking price … $500! When I showed my wife what it was REALLY worth, she very much calmed down … now every time we go through a small town SHE suggests I go to the local pawn shops to look for deals! (There was the Oxford Oscar synth I bought, not working, for five bucks and sold in a day on eBay for a grand … that made a believer out of her!) I’m just saying I purchase wisely and never get “upside down” on a piece … unless it’s REALLY something I’m going to love and use regularly. There are also some real cheapo’s in my stable. My main G slide guitar is a $99 “Brownsville” (Same Ash store brand). The list goes on … Also, I have played for several artists in the past that had endorsement deals and freebies along with it. Oh, and if you REALLY want to die … the '61 2-10 brown Fender Super which is museum piece perfect … I bough at a pawn shop in Reno NV when I was there playing a 2-week gig with Tom T Hall about 15 years back … for $25. This is what I mean by making sensible purchases! Invest in gold if you wish … I’d rather have a pre-CBS fender at that price any day!

So … back to the MK III … thanks Axweilding for your input! Yea, my front end on the Fenders includes a modded tube-screamer and a Bad-Monkey plus a highly modded cry-baby … again in search of the elusive SRV thing.

I’ve been surprised by the comments on the MK series clean tone … again, I have fond memories of a MK II clean tone! Are my memories dimmed by the years??
-VS-

 

[Boogiebabies]

Any way you look at it, you have gear acquisition syndome. You are in the right company that understands what you seek.

 

[axwielding1]

Well, I still say that the Mark IIB has the best clean tone out there, except from the Blackface Fender camp......A IIB with an Altec is the one....
I get the SRV tone pretty well, except for the thiele/EV thang....So I lean it out, especially when loud.
Play the crap out of it, and see what you think.. I have a feeling that you'll need a better reverb, the Mesa just gives breath, not that lush Fender reverb.(at least mine is wimpy)
But the fat gain is all there. I also find that lower vol 1,( maybe 3) and slightly higher lead drive(maybe 5) works well with a strat..
You'll probably prefer an open back cab with a warmer speaker too....
Good luck, and report back...
ax. :twisted:

 

[dylan7620]

Hi and thanks,

Dylan, you're gonna hate me ... but the Mesa's I was most dissapointed in were the Nomad serries. I played through a 1-12 and a 4-10 ... I was expecting to LOVE the 4-10, but was very dissapointed. I've played through several "rectifier" series amps and they seem to "hyped" for me ... not an honest, natural good tone. I've also played through several of the new F serries amps with great dissapointment.

Maybe I've just spent too much time in the land of classic Fenders and have started to take their honesty for granted. However, there is somthing that's just missing from my Fenders ... even though they are great amps in their own right. I'm looking for somthing that "sings" a bit more ... you know real honest sustain and super-rich harmonic content without sounding a bit like a buzz-saw (ie solid state). I'm really still trying to nail SRV's tone I guess...

The head I've found has all the features,
Simul-class (w/ EL 34's and 6L6's)
Reverb
Graphic

So, it's probably a great deal ... I just need to decide if it's a great deal for me! Again anyone with comments on how the MK III compares to a great MK II ... I'd love to hear from you. Monday I plan to go down and get the ser# and color code off of it. Scott, I'll let you know if I decide to pass on it.

There is also a great hardwoodwood/wicker MK IIA in Nashville ... but at two grand, it's kind of out of my price range ... and I'm not sure I'd love the IIA's tone as much as later MK II's
-VS-

ha ha, no problems. nomads are a very different sort of mesa, even though it has the whole (6 knob x3 channel easy layout) it can be almost as difficult to tweak as a mark IV. hell im still figuring stuff out! lol

that being said a blue angel will give your fenders a run for thier money :wink: but what is it that your after? you'd like a very chimy fenderish clean channel with a "singing" lead channel? i think it would be more in your intrest to check out that mark IIA before you decide on a III.
they have a pretty extreme amout of gain compared to what it sounds like you're after.

 

[chedgeco]

I'm kind of surprised that no one has mentioned the Lonestar Classic. I would say that it's the closest to the Mark IIB sound as you're going to get.

Usually a MarkIIB guy isn't going to like the Mark III clean or gain and a Mark III guy isn't going to dig the IIB sound. Speaking from someone who is a Mark III guy.

You owe it to yourself to check out the Lonestar Classic, from what I've heard about what you like it's going to fit you better. I've played a couple of LSC's and they are excellent clean machines and have a great low gain type of lead sound.

Chris... 8)

 

[Boogiebabies]

I'm kind of surprised that no one has mentioned the Lonestar Classic. I would say that it's the closest to the Mark IIB sound as you're going to get.

Usually a MarkIIB guy isn't going to like the Mark III clean or gain and a Mark III guy isn't going to dig the IIB sound. Speaking from someone who is a Mark III guy.

You owe it to yourself to check out the Lonestar Classic, from what I've heard about what you like it's going to fit you better. I've played a couple of LSC's and they are excellent clean machines and have a great low gain type of lead sound.

Chris... 8)

True, or the Maverick.

 

[Vaughn Skow]

First: On the charge of having “GAS” (Gear Acquisition Syndrome) … oh yea, guilty as charged! I just always hate it when I get an acute case of “BRM” (buyers remorse syndrome). A few years back I actually bought a Peavey Delta Blues amp … I figured “hey it’s all tube, looks like my beloved old TV front Pro … what’s not to like” … oh god … the good thing was I bought it used at a fair price and was able to get it out of my life without loosing too much money!

I think I need to be a bit more specific as to what I’m hoping the land of Boogie can bring me that my classic Fenders have not been able to:

I play mostly “Texas” blues … very seldom do I want or need a completely clean tone. I’ve been able to nail everything Billy Gibbons can do (tone wise) for years … but SRV has been elusive, to say the least. My SRV Strat into a cry baby into pair of “brown modded” tube screamers into the modded ’67 Super should nail it … but it dose not! The singing sustain just isn’t there. I’ve heard SRV used a lot of things in addition to his Fenders, Dumbles, Marshalls, and Boogies. That knowledge, combined with my fond memories of a MK II have had me wanting a Boogie for some time.

I’m a “professional tweaker” … making my living as an audio engineer for many years now, so I don’t mind that the Boogies require a bit of tweaking … shoot, I LIKE that …. That’s always been part of what has had me wanting a boogie.

What I really want is something that can get my classic rock/ ZZ top tone as well as my Super … but can also nail the (later years) SRV tone. I guess what I’m looking for is an amp as honest and true (and juicy and thick) as my Super … with the ability to do a more high-gain thing. Is there a Boogie that fits this bill … and could it be the MK III at my local pawn shop???

 

[boogee]

Have you thought about the Studio Preamp? If you want a thick and juicy lead tone the Studio Pre is hard to beat (IMO ofcourse).

The cleans are crystal clear and sparkly (sp?). The downside is that it is rather hard to dial these tones simultaneously.

You can always buy 2 of them like I did... :lol: They pop up on ebay once in a while and are quite cheap. I use mine with a Mesa 20/20 poweramp.

 

[AMG1]

You need a LSC. Thats the ticket in spades.

I own a MKIII and a LSC.

If you really want Fender type sounds with a little hair on it or more the LSC is hard to beat . The Reverb on the LSC is also very good.

 

[Vaughn Skow]

Well ....

I did buy it yesterday, but it's going back today. Turns out the amp has problems. While rhythm 1 & 2 seem to function correctly, the Lead channel does not work at all nor does the graphic EQ. I swapped all the tubes to no avail, so I popped the chassis out to take a peak and saw a couple resistors burned beyond recognition. The head was a good deal at $599 … but not with issues. I’m glad I made sure I had a 24hr period in which I could return it (always a good idea to insist on this when buying from a pawn shop).

At any rate, I listened and compared quite a bit on the channels that worked last night. The clean tone was actually not at all bad. My ’67 Super was quite a bit richer, creamier, sweeter, etc, but part of that is the CTS Alnico 10’s in it compared to the ceramics in the Marshall cab. When compared to my ’65 Bassman through the same Marshall cab, the tone quality (on rhythm 1) I was able to achieve was very similar with the MK III. It also responded well to the tube screamers in this channel. The “rhythm 2” sound didn’t do much for me. In particular, the low end was undefined, loose and muddy. In addition the high end was not nearly as sweet as on my Fenders. I tested on a great many guitars with every pickup combo imaginable. I came to a solid conclusion that this amp with the Marshall cab loves humbuckers in the bridge position. Single coils in the bridge are “so-so”. It’s not fond of neck pickups, especially P-90’s. The one thing I really liked was the shear brute force of the amp. It could get so much louder than the dual 6L6 Fenders while not even breathing hard. It’s ability to continue to provide clean tone at extreme volume was impressive. I immediately knew that on a large stage with two of the Marshall cabs this thing would really be fun! It’s too bad I didn’t get to hear the Lead channel tone. Oh well, if he repairs it I will probably buy it again with the same 24hr return period and start all over.

I’ll say this, the thing fit PERFECTLY on the Marshall cab! They look so cool together. Here is a link to the pic in case you’re interested:

http://bellsouthpwp.net/V/S/VSkow/Boogie_Marshall.jpg

 

[srf399]

I'm going to play the devils advocate here...

I love Fender amps... Had a 65 Deluxe Reverb... it stunk until I had it re capped...tubed... and reconditioned.

What would you think if I took that old Deluxe and rated it in it's sorry state? Would you think I was giving it a chance in hell?

Why not take a chance and send that unit back to Mesa...and have them recondition it?

I love OLD Fenders... but that unit you have there is light years away when it comes to the lead channel capabilities. You could A/B them together. Fender Clean & Mesa Lead...Man what a combination.

I've played for 25 years and professional for a long stretch in there and have had & played many different amps. I have no idea why I waited as long as I did before getting a Boogie. $$$ back then was the issue but I cringe thinking how nice it would have been like had I had my Mesa back then.