V1 and Mark V Tone

[Viperwest]

I have been browsing the forums for quite awhile (a couple of months) and have found this forum a very useful place for information. I bought my Mark V combo 1 month ago. I purchased it over the phone from MB Hollywood when they had a few in stock and was fortunate enough to get mine within about 4 business days. I replaced a Triaxis, 20/20, 3/4 open back 1X12 cab setup.

I must be honest, in the beginning I could hear the general tones I was looking for in the Mark V, but I have struggled for the last month trying to get the sounds I wanted. I have been playing this amp a couple hours a day trying to dial it in. I sympathize with those that feel the amp is a little too brittle or harsh. In addition I have felt that it doesn’t have the playing dynamics, and feel I have been accustom to. All in all I still considered the amp to be great.

In the beginning I thought I had reached a couple sounds close to my traixis setup that I was looking for. It wasn't until after I sold that rig that I realized I wasn't quite getting the sounds I wanted. I like everything to be warm and smooth, even with high gain, but the Mark V seems to have too much "icepick" going on in the high end. Along the way, I almost purchased a re-tube from Eurotubes, but decided not too once I realized all the preamp tubes are already JJ's.

After scouring the web, reading this forum everyday, and doing some heavy digging, I finally decided to change the V1 tube with some tubes I already have at my house. It so happens that I have 2 Mesa SP12AX7-A tubes from the mid 90's that came with the triaxis I sold. I am not sure who made these tubes, but they don't look like the JJ's or the Soveteks I tried. I replaced V1 and V3 with these tubes and this amp seems like a whole new beast. The same basic tone is there, but it has more warmth and less brittleness. Single notes have now a lot of low end, but there is still clarity. These tubes are getting me really close to what I was looking for with this amp. It is hard to imagine how much a difference these 2 tubes have made. It is a night and day difference.

I know there are probably people in the same position looking for cheap options to tweak the sound a little. All I can say is to take the advice of some of those on this board by changing the V1 tube, and I think you will be very surprised. For me, the amp sounds 100% better and now has the "feel" and dynamics I was looking for. I might still buy a Tung Sol tube and try that as well.

For me channels 2 and 3 are now very, very close to what I am looking for. Unlike most, I have not completely found my channel 1 tones, and am still working to nail that.

At the end of the day, I believe this is an amazing amp with nearly infinite possibilities, and I am very pleased. I hope this post helps someone. Thanks to everyone on this forum for the wealth of knowledge you provide.

 

[steve_k]

Mesa shipped a new Mark V with JJ preamp tubes?

Steve

 

[Viperwest]

Well yes and no. My understanding is they are jj's relabeled as Mesa tubes.

 

[guitardom]

they are not jj tubes. i believe ruby tubes. i replaced my entire rig with jj's and is a whole different animal.

 

[phyrexia]

<--all american/german/british preamp tubes. :twisted: :lol:

 

[Viperwest]

From what I have read, I thought the power tubes are ruby tubes, and the preamp tubes are jj's. I don't claim to be an expert on tubes and could be wrong. Still, my original point stands. Simply changing v1 can make a difference.

 

[hazbin]

The pre amp tubes are relabeled JJ's, per MB Hollywood. I changed my pre amp tubes to tung sol and they are great. Much better than stock IMHO

 

[cam]

Do those SP12AX7-A tubes have the dark gray band around them? I have some from the 90's from a Triaxis... hmmmmmm

 

[Viperwest]

Yes, the SP12AX7-A tubes I have gray band about 2/3 the way up them. It is between the two top plates. I have about 5-6 different types of 12AX7 tubes around my house, and so far I prefer that SP tube to the rest. I haven't tried the Russian 2 tubes I have yet. I think those are made by Electro Harmonix.

 

[scott from _actual time_]

...I like everything to be warm and smooth, even with high gain, but the Mark V seems to have too much "icepick" going on in the high end. ... I have 2 Mesa SP12AX7-A tubes ... I replaced V1 and V3 with these tubes and this amp seems like a whole new beast. The same basic tone is there, but it has more warmth and less brittleness.

interesting. so the harsh high end is reduced? does it sound sizzly in the very high end, or smooth?

i too have been having way too much icepick-in-the-ear treble and too much high-end sizzle on Ch 2 and 3. (i run high-grain tones.) if i dial the Presence down, the sizzle goes away but the overall tone is too dark to sit well in the mix.

i have a Tung Sol reissue in V1 and a mixture of Rubies and PentaLabs in the other positions, but i've been experimenting with V3. i had an after-market JJ in there--decent but too bright and sizzly for my tastes, a lot like the stock tubes (which of course are relabeled JJs).

i tried an unlabeled Chinese 12AX7--nicely thick midrange but a tiny bit too much sizzle for me, although the sizzle was pleasant and not harsh-sounding. a Sovtek WXT+--thick midrange, not as much as the Chinese tube, pleasantly sizzly highs, and a grainy crunch to the sound, a lot like the sound i've heard in demo clips of Petrucci's new pickup. nice, but not as smooth as i'm looking for.

i don't have another Tung Sol reissue or i would try it in V3. has anyone run one there?

does anyone know what original brand and model the Mesa SP12AX7's are? the current ones, available now. if they're just JJs selected for lower noise, i already know what that would sound like.

 

[kingdomheights777]

I too am experiencing too much sizzle and ice picking. I swapped out my power tubes with JJ6L6GC and that helped some issues with clarity. But I just ordered a tung-sol 12ax7, will putting that in the V1 help with the sizzle or what type of difference will i hear?

 

[Viperwest]

interesting. so the harsh high end is reduced? does it sound sizzly in the very high end, or smooth?

Yes, for me the high end seems to have a lot less sizzly stuff going on. Also, things in generally seem "fuller". I can really tell when playing single notes. I think most of this came from changing out V1, but decided to replace V3 because I had two of the tubes and to me it seemed the next logical position for replacement.

After making the switch I found I had to dial in more of the treble and presence knobs. To me this has seemed to put the eq/ controls on the amp into what I consider a more acceptable range. Before making this change, I was having a hard time finding tones that I loved. Now it seems easier.

Miles may vary. You my find what I like dark, but there is no way to know until you try it. I tend to lean more toward vintage sounds rather than modern, but I still like everything to be either dirty or aggressive. I never use a true clean tone. In addition, I mostly play through a les paul.

 

[scott from _actual time_]

I too am experiencing too much sizzle and ice picking. I swapped out my power tubes with JJ6L6GC and that helped some issues with clarity. But I just ordered a tung-sol 12ax7, will putting that in the V1 help with the sizzle or what type of difference will i hear?

when i put a Tung Sol reissue in V1, it didn't help a ton with the sizzle and ice-pick treble. IIRC, it made the overall sound a bit smoother and a bit more rich, but it wasn't a night and day difference, especially in terms of the high-end or treble response.

one thing that did make a slightly bigger difference was swapping the stock 6L6s for russian 5881s (not vintage 5881s; the russian ones that are a substitute for 6L6s). those have less high-end in general, and the quad i had had been used a bit. i'm planning to pick up a quad of Mesa rebranded russian 5881s soon.

Yes, for me the high end seems to have a lot less sizzly stuff going on. Also, things in generally seem "fuller". ... I think most of this came from changing out V1, but decided to replace V3 because I had two of the tubes and to me it seemed the next logical position for replacement.

V1 is definitely important, but V3 IIRC is a gain stage for Ch 2 and two gain stages for Ch 3. so it may be the most important tube in terms of the character of the high-gain sounds. fuller and less sizzly is what i want.

After making the switch I found I had to dial in more of the treble and presence knobs. To me this has seemed to put the eq/ controls on the amp into what I consider a more acceptable range.

that is exactly what i want. i have to keep the Presence knobs on Ch 2 and Ch 3 between 8 o'clock and off to cut out the sizzly high-end. even if i could get the amp sounding too dark, i know i would have plenty of room on the Presence knobs to brighten it back up.

hmm--now to see if i can find a 15-year old Mesa SP12AX7 or some other smooth & dark sounding preamp tube....

 

[dodger916]

has seemed to put the eq/ controls on the amp into what I consider a more acceptable range.that is exactly what i want. i have to keep the Presence knobs on Ch 2 and Ch 3 between 8 o'clock and off to cut out the sizzly high-end. even if i could get the amp sounding too dark, i know i would have plenty of room on the Presence knobs to brighten it back up.

hmm--now to see if i can find a 15-year old Mesa SP12AX7 or some other smooth & dark sounding preamp tube....

Try a vintage Mullard.

 

[CudBucket]

Interesting thread.

I remember now that I absolutely hated JJ tubes in ANY Mesa I've ever owned. I hope Mesa stops using their tubes. I always preferred Mesa tubes in my Mesa amps. But If Mesa is now using JJs for the preamp, that might explain why I thought Channel 3 of the Mark V I demo'ed was strident.

I may go back and try one again but bring my own OS Mesa 12AX7.

Dave

 

[CudBucket]

Try a vintage Mullard.

Don't those cost like $27 skillion?

 

[scott from _actual time_]

Try a vintage Mullard.

Don't those cost like $27 skillion?

yeah, that's pretty much out of my reach.

there is the New Sensor Mullard reissue, those are available. but the Groove Tubes Mullard reissue that lots of people love is all sold out.

 

[gplex]

Experimenting with tubes is fun and can yeild good results. The changes can be drastic or suttle. Power tube changes to different styles yeilds the most change in tone. Brands less so. Preamp tube's can change your tone also. Although we as the guitarist here those changes much more than say your band mates or audience. I have found speaker changes yeild the best results in really shaping your tone. It is more costly, that is why most guys flop tubes around, including me. I have been leaning the route on keeping multiple cabs around with very different speakers. A cab with V30's and one with Greenbacks can cover a lot of ground. The Jensen Blackbird is a very mellow full sounding speaker. It is also expensive.

 

[dodger916]

Try a vintage Mullard.

Don't those cost like $27 skillion?

If you're dilligent, you can probably get one on auction for $30 to $40 shipped; new ones cost in the $20's.

If you haven't tried vintage preamp tubes, it might open up a new world of possibilities for an extra $20. Make no mistake: there is a difference, but they are not for everyone.

 

[dodger916]

Experimenting with tubes is fun and can yeild good results. The changes can be drastic or suttle. Power tube changes to different styles yeilds the most change in tone. Brands less so. Preamp tube's can change your tone also. Although we as the guitarist here those changes much more than say your band mates or audience. I have found speaker changes yeild the best results in really shaping your tone. It is more costly, that is why most guys flop tubes around, including me. I have been leaning the route on keeping multiple cabs around with very different speakers. A cab with V30's and one with Greenbacks can cover a lot of ground. The Jensen Blackbird is a very mellow full sounding speaker. It is also expensive.

+1, except I found preamp tubes can make a more profound difference than power tubes, especially considering Mesa's multiple gain stages. Not only are there distinct tone differences, but preamp tubes also have different gain characteristics.

Speakers also make a profound difference, but as gplex notes, it's easier to flop tubes than swap speakers, unless you keep separate cabs.