V-Twin as clean preamp for jazz?

[joegold]

I know...This is not what the thing is designed for. Still....

How would the V-Twin sound as a clean preamp running into a tube power amp for clean dark jazz tones ala Metheny, Martino, etc.?

I've got a Simul-Satellite and, try as I may, when I use it as a stand-alone amp I can't really dial-in the kind of jazz tone I'd like to hear. When I use it to power my Triaxis it's pretty good, so I don't think this is a power-amp issue.

The Simul-Sat's built-in preamp is a very simple affair. It's got 2 12AX7's. One of them is the driver tube. One 1/2 of V1 is the preamp FX driver and the other half is the FX return plus the input to the graphic EQ. So the preamp itself is really just using 1/2 of V1.

The controls are Volume (Pull-Boost, which I never use), Tone (yes, a single tone control), Master, Presence (pull-shift allows a negative feedback loop in the power amp... un-pulled has no negative feedback...pulled is "normal").
There's also a 5-band EQ and a Tweed/Power switch.

On the back there are FX send and return jacks.
The return jack has a level control pot. It can handle instrument level to line level signals.
Then there are the regular 8 and 4 ohm speaker jacks, a ground-lift switch, Class A/SimulClass switch, etc.

So, between the Tone control (rolled back, as well as rolling back the Presence) and the graphic EQ (in the "Classic V") I can almost get what I want to hear, but not quite. If the V-Twin could do it for me it wouldn't be too big a hassle to lug it around with me to the types of gigs and jams that I'd be using the Simul-Sat on as a stand-alone amp.

I'd be running the V-Twin pedal directly into the Simul-Sat's FX Ret jack/power amp input, using the V-Twin's Clean channel. (I'd still have the Graphic EQ available and my Presence control would be active too.) I might use the Solo channel from time to time as well.

Whaddaya think? Worth trying?

Would the H&K Tubeman likely be any better than the V-Twin for this application?

Any info/tips appreciated.

 

[YOUNGIE41]

Metheny is supposed to use some Digitech DSP Preamp and Martino is into Roland cubes / JC 120 or Polytones. Ive no idea if a V-twin is what you need, never realy heard them being used for Jazz. A lot of Jazzers are into transister amps for clean sounds. Happy hunting.

 

[PC Biz]

I use my V-Twin pedal for jazz all the time. Use the Guitar Amp output for jazz. It has a lower output than the Power Amp output.

In fact, a couple of weeks ago I plugged my V-Twin pedal into the send/return loop of my bass player's little Ibanez solid state practice amp. The clean was awesome. Definitely gig worthy. High gain was very nice, too.

 

[Hamer95USA]

I know...This is not what the thing is designed for. Still....

How would the V-Twin sound as a clean preamp running into a tube power amp for clean dark jazz tones ala Metheny, Martino, etc.?

I've got a Simul-Satellite and, try as I may, when I use it as a stand-alone amp I can't really dial-in the kind of jazz tone I'd like to hear. When I use it to power my Triaxis it's pretty good, so I don't think this is a power-amp issue.

The Simul-Sat's built-in preamp is a very simple affair. It's got 2 12AX7's. One of them is the driver tube. One 1/2 of V1 is the preamp FX driver and the other half is the FX return plus the input to the graphic EQ. So the preamp itself is really just using 1/2 of V1.

The controls are Volume (Pull-Boost, which I never use), Tone (yes, a single tone control), Master, Presence (pull-shift allows a negative feedback loop in the power amp... un-pulled has no negative feedback...pulled is "normal").
There's also a 5-band EQ and a Tweed/Power switch.

On the back there are FX send and return jacks.
The return jack has a level control pot. It can handle instrument level to line level signals.
Then there are the regular 8 and 4 ohm speaker jacks, a ground-lift switch, Class A/SimulClass switch, etc.

So, between the Tone control (rolled back, as well as rolling back the Presence) and the graphic EQ (in the "Classic V") I can almost get what I want to hear, but not quite. If the V-Twin could do it for me it wouldn't be too big a hassle to lug it around with me to the types of gigs and jams that I'd be using the Simul-Sat on as a stand-alone amp.

I'd be running the V-Twin pedal directly into the Simul-Sat's FX Ret jack/power amp input, using the V-Twin's Clean channel. (I'd still have the Graphic EQ available and my Presence control would be active too.) I might use the Solo channel from time to time as well.

Whaddaya think? Worth trying?

Would the H&K Tubeman likely be any better than the V-Twin for this application?

Any info/tips appreciated.

Hey Joe,

I have both the Simul-Satellite and the Hughes & Kettner Tubeman preamp (gasp on a Boogie messeboard). I tried out the V-Twin and it wasn't my cup of tea. I liked the Hughes & Kettner's preamp sounds much better and the layout is easy to adjust onstage. I'm using the H&K Tubeman along with my VHT Valvulator & other effects on an SKB PS-45 pedalboard and I run the output of my pedalboard straight into the effects loop return of the Simul-Satellite combo amp. I get easy to dial up sounds to work with, no programming or MIDI controllers and is much easier to carry around. The downside is I don't have programmability, MIDI control and I have to step on a lot of pedals to make certain combinations happen like I do on my MIDI guitar rack system. I still love the analog sounds though.

Guitar George

 

[joegold]

Hey Joe,

I have both the Simul-Satellite and the Hughes & Kettner Tubeman preamp (gasp on a Boogie messeboard). I tried out the V-Twin and it wasn't my cup of tea. I liked the Hughes & Kettner's preamp sounds much better and the layout is easy to adjust onstage. I'm using the H&K Tubeman along with my VHT Valvulator & other effects on an SKB PS-45 pedalboard and I run the output of my pedalboard straight into the effects loop return of the Simul-Satellite combo amp. I get easy to dial up sounds to work with, no programming or MIDI controllers and is much easier to carry around. The downside is I don't have programmability, MIDI control and I have to step on a lot of pedals to make certain combinations happen like I do on my MIDI guitar rack system. I still love the analog sounds though.

Guitar George

Do you run your pedal into the Satellite's preamp input or into the FX Return on the back? I.e. Are you bypassing the Satellite's preamp and just using it as a pwer amp/speaker?

I'm also curious as to why you need the Valvulator in your signal path if you're using the Tubeman as a preamp (i.e. if the Tubeman is never fully bypassed and it's the first device in the signal path after the guitar). Wouldn't the Tubeman itself do all the buffering you need? Or do you have some low-z pedals in front of the Tubeman too?

Also...How do you find the SKB pedal board?
I've seen some mixed reviews.
Is the power supply OK?
Is the audio signal path transparent sounding?
I've heard that the plastic molding the jacks are situated in is a little bit flimsy.

I'd be interested to know your exact signal path, if you've got the time.

 

[Hamer95USA]

[/quote]

Do you run your pedal into the Satellite's preamp input or into the FX Return on the back? I.e. Are you bypassing the Satellite's preamp and just using it as a pwer amp/speaker?

I'm also curious as to why you need the Valvulator in your signal path if you're using the Tubeman as a preamp (i.e. if the Tubeman is never fully bypassed and it's the first device in the signal path after the guitar). Wouldn't the Tubeman itself do all the buffering you need? Or do you have some low-z pedals in front of the Tubeman too?

Also...How do you find the SKB pedal board?
I've seen some mixed reviews.
Is the power supply OK?
Is the audio signal path transparent sounding?
I've heard that the plastic molding the jacks are situated in is a little bit flimsy.

I'd be interested to know your exact signal path, if you've got the time.[/quote]

Hey Joe,

Thanks for responding to my posting. I run the H& K Tubeman preamp and all of the effect pedals into the Simul-Satellite effects return to bypass the amp's preamp. This allows me to use the Simul-Satellite as a portable power amp/ speaker only. I use the VHT Valvulator before I go into all the pedals to:

1) Restores the lost high end from cable capacitance and going through all the effect pedals.

2) Power supply for my MXR 117R flanger. It eliminated the stock AC adaptor off of my pedalboard. I had to solder a custom DC cable since the flanger is 18volts and the Valvulator has 2 9.5V outlets.

3) The Tubeman itself is fine. I'm running an Area 51 wah pedal( true bypass), an Analogman SD-1/808 clipping selector mod pedal and a Keeley BD-2 Phat mod pedal before the Tubeman so I want to be sure I slam the Tubeman's input signal with a strong low impedance signal.

The SKB-PS-45 is one of SKB's best pedalboard to date. It is exactly like the Furman SP-8 pedalboard. It has a patchbay, 8 DC outlets, 3 AC outlets and the power supply is power conditioned which is the same layout as the Furman SP-8 power conditioned pedalboard. I believe that Furman is the subcontractor for the power conditioner/patchbay box on the SKB PS-45 due to its similiarities and specifications. The only difference between the two is the pedalboard: Furman makes theirs from aluminum, the SKB is a molded polyethylene and the covers: Furman provides a gig bag with their pedalboard, SKB provides a sturdy, molded polyethylene cover.

I wouldn't regard any reviews on Harmony Central review database as 100%. I take those reviews with a grain of salt. The best way to see if something works is to try it out. Unfortunately, not every store stocks the item you want to try out. The power supply on the PS-45 works great and it's an 9' AC cord, not a DC adaptor. The 8 DC outlets provide clean power and the included DC cords can reach the pedals easily . The input jacks have a metal nut on them with a plastic barrel on the inside. The jacks are quite sturdy and I've been gigging on them for 6 months with my Top 40 band. This is standard practice for music equipment manufacturers to comply with international laws concerning electrical codes, i.e. CE rating in Europe.

The audio signal path is only as good as the pedals and cords that are in it. I use a combination of the VHT Valvulator I, an Area 51 wah pedal, newer & older Boss pedals, newer MXR pedals and a Korg DT-10 tuner. The pedalboard on its own works fine, add a few pedals , then you get signal loss and hum. I installed the Valvulator to restore the high end and it also eliminated the low hum since my signal travels through the pedals and the Tubeman. Here is an early picture when I first assembled the pedalboard:

Guitar> input jack( pedalboard patchbay)
to pedals jack (pedalboard patchbay)> VHT Valvulator I buffer/power supply
Valvulator I> Area 51 wah pedal
Area 51 wah pedal> Analogman SD-1/808 clipping selector mod
Analogman SD-1/808 > Keeley BD-2 Phat mod pedal
Keeley BD-2 Phat mod> Hughes & Kettner Tubeman
Tubeman> Boss CE-2 chorus
CE-2 chorus> MXR 117R flanger (powered by the Valvualtor's power supply)
MXR flanger >MXR EVH Phase 90 phaser
EVH Phase 90> Analogman DD-2 high cut mod
Analogman DD-2 high cut mod >Boss RV-2 digital reverb
RV-2 digital reverb> Korg DT-10 tuner
DT-10 tuner > from pedals input jack
from pedals input jack (pedalboard patchbay)> to amp output jack(pedalboard patchbay)


Guitar George

 

[joegold]

Guitar> input jack( pedalboard patchbay)
to pedals jack (pedalboard patchbay)> VHT Valvulator I buffer/power supply
Valvulator I> Area 51 wah pedal
Area 51 wah pedal> Analogman SD-1/808 clipping selector mod
Analogman SD-1/808 > Keeley BD-2 Phat mod pedal
Keeley BD-2 Phat mod> Hughes & Kettner Tubeman
Tubeman> Boss CE-2 chorus
CE-2 chorus> MXR 117R flanger (powered by the Valvualtor's power supply)
MXR flanger >MXR EVH Phase 90 phaser
EVH Phase 90> Analogman DD-2 high cut mod
Analogman DD-2 high cut mod >Boss RV-2 digital reverb
RV-2 digital reverb> Korg DT-10 tuner
DT-10 tuner > from pedals input jack
from pedals input jack (pedalboard patchbay)> to amp output jack(pedalboard patchbay)


Guitar George

Yep, that'd get most jobs done.
Thanks.
It's unclear to me how you have the tuner hooked up. It looks like it's post effects. If so, you might try running the Valvulator's Output B into the tuner as a little side-chain, instead of the RV-2's output. That way you can adjust tuning even if your overdrive stuff is on. And the tuner isn't really in the same signal path as the Satellite.

 

[Hamer95USA]

Yep, that'd get most jobs done.
Thanks.
It's unclear to me how you have the tuner hooked up. It looks like it's post effects. If so, you might try running the Valvulator's Output B into the tuner as a little side-chain, instead of the RV-2's output. That way you can adjust tuning even if your overdrive stuff is on. And the tuner isn't really in the same signal path as the Satellite.[/quote]

Hey Joe,

The tuner comes after the RV-2's output. The reason I have it like that is if I'm out of tune onstage, I hit the mute button on the tuner to mute, tune up, then unmute. Yes, the tuner is in the signal path going to the Satellite as it has a buffer so it's cool for me and it works great!!!

Guitar George