Using two mics?

[Platypus]

I have been trying to get a 'bigger' and more professional recording sound. Right now I am using one SM57 and it does the job fairly well with good tones but it doesn't have that record sound to it. I have been thinking about combining the mic with a ribbon or condenser mic, does anyone have advice on this?

I was also thinking of picking up an e906.

 

[Elpelotero]

I would go for it. The sm57 is very dark. A condenser would really brighten things up like you wouldn't believe. There's lots of affordable options out there. for example, sennheiser 421, u87, sennheiser e609

 

[Platypus]

I'm worried about phase issues, is there a good method for using two mics?

Would you recommend a condenser over another dynamic?

 

[Elpelotero]

Those are the technical questions I'm still getting answered myself. I've only been reading up on this for a few weeks. However, when my band recorded a song in a studio a year ago, the cab was mic'd with a condenser several feet back and a dynamic up close. When I separate the tracks, I can easily hear the differences I described. I can't say if that is a general rule though.

check out gearslutz.com best forum around IMO for recording gear

 

[lyman]

I'm worried about phase issues, is there a good method for using two mics?

Would you recommend a condenser over another dynamic?

well, try listening to one of the mics alone and then blend the other one in gradually (you'd have to record the guitar first unless somebody else is there to help out). panning them both to the center helps. does it sound thinner or seem to deplete the sound? if so, it's probably a phasing issue. some DAW programs let you flip the phase of a track too. try that and use whichever sounds better to you.

i dunno, try moving the mic(s) around until you find what works. it's trial and error.

as far as what type of mic to get, depends on your gear, sound you dial in, sound you're going for.......lots of variables. ribbon mics are good on guitar cabs, though a decent condensor might be more versatile. a good pre amp can make a difference too.

 

[winterland]

I would go for it. The sm57 is very dark. A condenser would really brighten things up like you wouldn't believe. There's lots of affordable options out there. for example, sennheiser 421, u87, sennheiser e609

I would never think to call an Sm57 dark. I suppose it depends on what you are comparing it too. But overall they are known to be quite cutting of a sound. Many engineers blend a 57 with a 421 which usually has more lows and isn't as bright with a 57.

The U87 is the only condenser in your list. But yes many engineers blend a condenser like a U87 with a dynamic like a 57, 421, e609 etc.

When blending 2 mics just be sure to move the 2nd mic around to find a spot that sounds best with the 1st mic. There will be some phase issues going on if they aren't the same distance but that is ok just so it sounds good and you aren't cancelling out all the lows etc.

Many things come into play getting a great recorded guitar sound. The source sound, the room, mic, pre amp, digital conversion etc. It will only be as good as the weakest link.

Good luck.

 

[Ruan7321]

You could use the Fredman technique. I use it with a Beta57 and a Audix i5

 

[MusicManJP6]

This is an ironic thread. Just yesterday I did some tone tests with an SM57 and a Pearl CM2000 because an SM57 alone has never given me the tone I want on a recording. The CM2000 is a cardioid mic with a battery inside it.

I close miced with both mics and placed the SM57 almost in the center of the cone on axis and the CM2000 at the edge of the cone on axis. The clips I made show the difference b/w the SM57 by itself, the CM2000 by itself, and the two mics blended. I only did rhythm tracks because I double tracked everything and there's no way I could hammer out a lead two times perfect.

Here's the link to the clips:
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=793530

Keep in mind that i'm just using my computer, and i'm not a recording artist. This should give you an idea of how much better the tone is when you mix a mic with an SM57 though. The tone is not perfect, but you can hear the benefit of the additional mic.

 

[JF Omalycat]

MusicMan, I couldn't get your link to work? Love to hear the clips, though.


I think I mentioned this in another thread, but if you're really looking for that "record" sound, the pre-amp your using makes a much larger difference than the mic itself. I can't say that enough, the difference is pretty staggering.
If you're multi track recording, or layering, invest in something like an RNP pre-amp. 500 bucks for a two channel pre may seem like a lot, but it'll make your '57 alone sound like a million bucks.

8)

Take care.

 

[MusicManJP6]

*LINK FIXED*

Thanks for the heads up!

 

[JF Omalycat]

Yeah, that sounds pretty kick-***.

Love that background rythym, man. Nice galloping kind of drive-thing. 8)

What kind of plug-ins are you using, if any? I downloaded the PSP Vintage Warmer, and I think it's by far the best plug-in for the money out there. It even brought my buddies solid state Fender to life in some of our recordings.

 

[lockbody]

I'm worried about phase issues, is there a good method for using two mics?

Would you recommend a condenser over another dynamic?

Here's a pretty good article about using two mics on a guitar amp.

http://www.homerecordingconnection.com/news.php?action=view_story&id=140

 

[MusicManJP6]

No plugins Omalycat! Just a little EQ (the same for all guitar tracks for both mics) to cut the lows and boost the highs just a bit. I need to check out that vintage warmer...

 

[cliffdove]

That's a good read. I'm thinking of getting a MD421 to compliment the sm57 after having read so much about this combination. So far, I feel the sm57 covers the mids and highs and isn't that ballsy in the low end.

Here's two clips with just the sm57 placed on different areas of the cone, without any processing. I really like the idea of blending another mic to beefen it up.

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=728873&content=music

 

[MusicManJP6]

I believe Tommi Inkilia over at the JP forums uses an M421 and SM57 with outstanding results. His clips inspired me to try my own mic combinations...

 

[Elpelotero]

This is an ironic thread. Just yesterday I did some tone tests with an SM57 and a Pearl CM2000 because an SM57 alone has never given me the tone I want on a recording. The CM2000 is a cardioid mic with a battery inside it.

I close miced with both mics and placed the SM57 almost in the center of the cone on axis and the CM2000 at the edge of the cone on axis. The clips I made show the difference b/w the SM57 by itself, the CM2000 by itself, and the two mics blended. I only did rhythm tracks because I double tracked everything and there's no way I could hammer out a lead two times perfect.

Here's the link to the clips:
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=793530

i love that little riff! the drums really bring it to life.

Keep in mind that i'm just using my computer, and i'm not a recording artist. This should give you an idea of how much better the tone is when you mix a mic with an SM57 though. The tone is not perfect, but you can hear the benefit of the additional mic.

 

[Platypus]

Thanks MMJP6 for those clips.

Some good info here, might just have to pull the trigger on another mic.

 

[MusicManJP6]

Thanks!

I definitely recommend at least one more mic after recording those clips yesterday. I'm sure I can move the mic positioning around to get even better results. I literally just slapped the mic down about where I thought they should go and started recording!

Cool clips cliffdove! The tone works well for heavy stuff. A second mic with some more high end would really let you bring the tone to life IMO. Thanks for sharing!

Now, i'm off to read that article about mic positioning...

 

[Anonymous]

hey platypus,

i recommend you go for a condensor mic - a good one.

the C1000 MK AKG is becoming more and more the studio guitar amp mic.
the shure sm57 is really good for live sound.

the better the mic the better the result. the frequency range should be 20-20kilo, sound pressure level at least at 135db and so on. have a look here, its about mic preamps but it shows very well which specs and other topics have to beconsidered.

http://www.rane.com/note148.html

i live very well with all my (tube) condensor mics. they capture the sound as it comes from the speaker without any colouring of the tone. yes, and life I use the shure sm57 ;-)

its not necessary to buy a neumann directly - but there is a reason that all engineers use them if at hand.

 

[Platypus]

Thanks dean, very helpful!