Understanding gain...

[jbird]

With the loop engaged, the channel masters become effects level send controls, used to achieve unity gain with effects devices! With the loop bypassed they become your master outputs.

Channel master at 9 o'clock and Master Output at 3o'clock (with the loop engaged) would be loud!

Channel master at 3 o'clock and Master output at 9 o'clock (with the loop engaged) would be bedroom volumes, and probably be driving the preamp tube responsible for the loop into more gain!

 

[Anonymous]

Post removed.

 

[NoGlassNoClass]

With the loop engaged, the channel masters become effects level send controls, used to achieve unity gain with effects devices! With the loop bypassed they become your master outputs.

Channel master at 9 o'clock and Master Output at 3o'clock (with the loop engaged) would be loud!

Channel master at 3 o'clock and Master output at 9 o'clock (with the loop engaged) would be bedroom volumes, and probably be driving the preamp tube responsible for the loop into more gain!

Consider this...Say you have a power amp like a 2:100 with the vol controls dimed. You are using a preamp which has its own output volume knob. The pre's vol knob would work like the channel masters on a Recto with the loop bypassed, yes?

Now say the Recto has its loop engaged. Its Output knob becomes as the vol knobs on the power amp, so you can blend preamp drive with power tube distortion, with at least some control over rediculously loud volume.

Now I dont know exactly what the internal signal levels are like inside a Recto head, but I do know that most power amps, be they SS or tube, guitar, bass or PA, achieve unity gain with the input signal with their volume/attenuation knobs set between 1:00- 2:00. Thats how I always ran my power amps in my old rack system, it's how my bassist runs his, that's how our (and most others I've seen) PA is set up...and it sounds killer and works perfectly fine.

Based on this line of reasoning, I run the Output on my 3-ch Triple at around 1:30, with the FX Send level at unity (which oddly enough is also around 1:30-2:00 depending on the tube in V4) and use the Channel Masters to control overall volume.

It sounds fantastic. It can get stupid-loud without overloading the effects in the loop (Boss CH1, DD6, RV5). Yes, it sounds *slightly* better with the loop bypassed, but the difference is truly miniscule. The audience will never hear it...hell I can barely hear it in the context of a full band mix. Time-based FX work better in the loop, and the Solo-boost is a nice feature as well.

Bedroom volumes? C'mon its a f'n Triple Rectifier, that's not what its for! If I want to sound like **** practicing by myself at low volumes I have a crappy little 30W 1x12 SS combo for that.

 

[clutch71]

i'm ordering a hotplate to see if i can get a more saturated sound from the tubes. the best sounds i get is whenever we play an auditorium or a school gym. i crank that sucker up and it sounds so awesome, but in bars and small club (and rehearsal space) i can't get my master past 9 o'clock

Let me know how that hotplate works out and what model you go with if you don't mind please. Just click on my e-mail link. I've been thinking about getting one, especially if I step up to a DR, TR, or RKII head.

Hey thanks for everyones advice on the settings. I will say, where I had the mids was right out of the manual, I've raised em to between 12-1 and cut the treble slightly. Looking forward to Sunday when I can crank the amp.

The loop, that's a whole other ball of wax. I effectively feel that I have a better understanding of gain now. Thus endeth the lession for this week so to speak. I need to pick up some longer cables before I start messing with the loop anyway. Plus I don't want to wear out siggy14 and jbirds fingers!

Another thing I like about Mesa; subtle changes make a dynamic difference and it's fun to experiment.

 

[Elpelotero]

Another thing I like about Mesa; subtle changes make a dynamic difference and it's fun to experiment.

at least you understand GAS

 

[jbird]

This has been an excellent discussion!

 

[clutch71]

This has been an excellent discussion!

I agree! I learned a lot! I do have a couple of videos I posted to youtube. The video was shot with a Sony HDD camcorder so the sound quality is not the greatest. Cheap but good recording advice?

The first clip is with a set of JJ's and Grove Tubes that came with the amp when I bought it. The amp had a "gravely" sound when I started to crank the amp but broke up nice at a low volume. It sounds loud but you can hear my kids in the clip if you listen carefully.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRlflML4bLM

The second clip is in an auditorium I have access to where I can crank the amp. Not sure where the settings (most likely right out of Rectoverb manual for High Gain with the gain pushed slightly) are but as you can see it sounds muddy, some of that is the product of the camcorder. After I retubed the amp with all Mesa tubes, one power tubes went on me! Not sure is this was when that happened or not. I may have been running at half power. Oh and I played it too fast! I'm a basement player so be nice :shock:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6mXqCtXD9o

One nice feature about recording your self and finding your own flaws! I have since replaced the power tubes (amp sounds wonderful)just haven't recorded anything yet. That was the purpose for this post. Trying to find a sweeter spot before I record anything else. Let me know what you think and any advise would be great!