Tung-Sol reissue 12AX7

[LerxstLee]

I think there are three versions of the russian 12ax7. Maybe four. Just take your Tungsol "reissue" which tungsol was never made in russia, nor does russia even have any of the tungsol factory gear, tooling , metals ect, what you will find is
the tungsol is the same russian 12ax7 with a different logo on it. Just like the mesa russian tube. Printing fancy labels and calling it a reissue never made a tube sound better to me. It is almost enlightening to see just how the word reissue
gets people buying and even makes them think it sounds better. Look at the russing sovteks and it matches excatly one of those models. IF it looks like a duck, ect. I will even match them for you for five extra bucks so you can put them in your sockets with resistors that have a 20% tolerance difference. Since so many of you hear that huge difference with a match p.i tube. Did you ever notice if you put a matched quad in and amp and check the bias, then put in a match p.i, sometimes they were more closely biased than before. You got it , your amp has variances of UP to 20% each way, I guess you could say a matched triode 12ax? could be off by up to 40%, I would bet you would blame it on the tube.
/cheers

Looks seldom = great sound. Fancy labels look good, but do they make the tube sound better? There is plenty of evidence here that the same tube from the same factory, made with the same innards sure do sound better just by switching the label. If it is no NOS, I really see no reason in a post on just how good that tube sounds. If it was some new tooling for example let me know but please, stop listening to the labels and listen to the facts.

 

[Timbre Wolf]

listen to the facts.

I agree with the spirit of what you are saying, and I hate when people refer to New Sensor products as "re-issues" They have nothing to do with the original. But you have gone beyond where I would draw the line, in my critique. New Sensor's tubes may look the same to you, but they do not all sound the same. I challenge you to take a listen to a few samples of each, then revise your proclamation (and then return to genuine vintage tubes, where the quality resides).

Best,
- Thom

 

[LerxstLee]

With the respect the board gives you and I have read your work, it is impressive, with that in mind let me share some facts:

I remember when sovtek had a "quality" el34, yes the one mesa used to use. Yet, that is no longer considered a quality tube. Mike Mathews has been beat by manufacturers begging for better deals upon better deals. Which is excactly why new sensor products vary so much from month to month and year to year. Take a look at the most common tubes and the quality variances.
12AX7-c qv17%, that is why it is such a popular tube with manufacturers, most are good quality.
12ax7-r (WA) qv 42%
12ax7-r2 LPS qv 42%
12ax7-r3 EH/TS/Mesa/mullard qv 17% , another popular tube, most are good quality.

if you take this small example from just five years ago and add in the fact that new sensor keeps cutting costs you can start to conclude why all these other tube brands are making money now. It sure is hard to win a losing battle. In comes other companies that can beat these variances. Enter JJ 12 ax7s, they had a qv of 58%, now that gap has closed, how hard can it be to make your quality go up 20%? yet the chinese ax7 stays the same, all the russian ones still vary, yet none of the russian new sensor are better than they were five years ago. I have listened, although I might only purchase five units of tube I have little to no use for, my amplitrex which I do know how to use tells me, no matter who is selling them, I know what the tests say. Why would I buy more tubes for 20 bucks with a label on them? I can get great testing sylvanias for 20 ;the same price. Now TAD and RUBY starts to come in now also. Some do not like them some do. Yet the quality is starting to show. Look at the amps where they are showing up , compared to the amps new sensor is showing up in. These are mostly just secondary screeners, no different then groove tubes. They are sick of throwing away 50-60% of their tubes.
Fancy labels look great, great tubes sound great.

 

[LerxstLee]

Call me crazy, but I quite like the stock preamp valves in my Mesa, those Russian 2s. Only replaced V1 in my Roadster with a Mesa SPAX7 preamp valve. Sounds good. I wonder if a preamp valve swap would be better. Kinda dig the tones I'm getting the way they are currently...

I totally agree with you. When I sent my road king in for a work up at mesa they retubed it with tubes that passed their quality and durability screening. My road king over all sounds great, it has now been retired as I found an amp that serves me better.On my chart the r2 is the LPS, the r3 is what mesa has labeled r2 qv=s 17%
/cheers

 

[KH Guitar Freak]

Call me crazy, but I quite like the stock preamp valves in my Mesa, those Russian 2s. Only replaced V1 in my Roadster with a Mesa SPAX7 preamp valve. Sounds good. I wonder if a preamp valve swap would be better. Kinda dig the tones I'm getting the way they are currently...

I totally agree with you. When I sent my road king in for a work up at mesa they retubed it with tubes that passed their quality and durability screening. My road king over all sounds great, it has now been retired as I found an amp that serves me better.On my chart the r2 is the LPS, the r3 is what mesa has labeled r2 qv=s 17%
/cheers

Interesting story, and good to know. Cheers mate...

 

[yeti]

any tung sol RI i've bought tests bad. sounds fine...well, fine as far as TS tubes are concerned.

 

[boogiemon]

-

 

[yeti]

mine too.

really liquid and good..then..dead almost.

 

[swbo101]

I've been using them for about six months now and have been very happy with the sound. I did get a bad one that lasted only a day or so, but since then have been lucky. I have been told to make sure they aren't used in a cathode follower stage. Maybe that's why they don't last long in some amps?

Otherwise I love the sound in the V1 position.

 

[wta]

I picked up a couple of cryo Tungs 12ax7s off of ebay with under 2 hrs of use for 25 delivered. I read the breakdown on the cryo technology and it made some sense so I took the plung. They should be here in the next few days and I'll give'm a good go and let y'all know what I think.

 

[yeti]

good. i was wondering if cryo tubes made any difference, or was snake oil.

guess i should ask the question out front on the main page?

 

[SonicProvocateur]

The cryo treating DEFINITELY worked on my TAD selected 12AX7-C's, but I didn't realize they were the lower gain version so they've been relinquished to my Orange instead of my Mesa. Can't speak for the cryo Tung-Sol's, but if it's any of the same treatment style, then expect little to zero noise floor. I was heartily impressed, and I definitely have put many many good hours on those tubes with little sign of giving in.

 

[boogiemon]

-

 

[SonicProvocateur]

Interesting. Can you comment on any tonal differences?

Hardly. Since i'm unsure of their "selected" chinese origin, all I can tell for sure is they were a lower gain tube than I was used to in V3 and V5 which added up to less than desirable performance in my Mesa. Tonally it seemed to respond flatly across the spectrum in the Mesa, but not brilliantly, perhaps because it was Chinese, I dunno. It just lacked that something. Now in the Orange the tube soars to life and performed exceptionally well (came stock with chinese); it seemed to trade a little bit of "bloom" for flat response across the tonal spectrum and the fact the tube made -zero- noise.

Whether or not I could directly compare it's performance in the Mesa to another Chinese tube is hard, but against a current production tube in the Orange it performed very well. I'd say the cryo treating is a go, but wouldn't recommend it on low gain tubes unless that's your flavor.

 

[talltxguy]

I just swapped out my stock Mesa Russian 12AX7 in V1 for the Tung-Sol and am glad I did. I expected more difference with the cleans than with distortion but was pleasantly surpised. More depth to the distorted tones. Chunking away or soloing is better. I've used these tubes before in a Studio Pre and was pleased. Glad to see they work well in the Roadster as well.

 

[Timbre Wolf]

Wow!! This thread has been alive for four and a half years.

Although I stand behind what I said at that time, there may have been production changes in the ensuing time, so I can't guarantee that the current-production "Tung-Sol" 12AX7 still sounds the same.

Carry on, then...

- Thom

 

[crane]

Hehe, 4 1/2 years, your opinion on tubes can't disapear Thom !

I'm sure TS current production have changed. The first TS I tried were '05 production and sounded like crap IMO, and I really did prefer the EH. I recently tried some '09 TS production and find them really better: tighter gain, more clarity and less harsh highs.

 

[Timbre Wolf]

Hehe, 4 1/2 years, your opinion on tubes can't disapear Thom !

I'm sure TS current production have changed. The first TS I tried were '05 production and sounded like crap IMO, and I really did prefer the EH. I recently tried some '09 TS production and find them really better: tighter gain, more clarity and less harsh highs.

Hi Crane! Yes, the ramblings are indelible, it seems. :lol: Funny thing, though - the New Sensor "Tung-Sol" that I first purchased, way back when, seem to fit your description of the '09 batch that you favor.

Cheers!

- T

 

[crane]

So it seems to fit another thing we heard about Tung-Sol : a very unconstant production !

 

[Timbre Wolf]

So it seems to fit another thing we heard about Tung-Sol : a very unconstant production !

Yes. But I don't use them consistently anyway :lol:

- Thom