Tube life?

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Maury

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I bought mt LSC 2 months ago and I was told it was approx 1 month old. I found out yesterday that the original buyer purchased it July '05. :?

In your opinion, is it time for new tubes?

Maury
 
f it sounds dull or lifeless then you may need new tubes. THere are to many factors to say if you need new tubes or not.

Here is a little to chew on: Tom Morello has had the same tubes in his JCM 800 for 20 years.
 
Maury, get new power tubes installed. I highly recommend the amp be rebiased to the new tubes for the best performance and tone. You can always substitute the preamp tubes with different manufacturers as well. Look through the posts and you can find all types fo opinions on which 12ax7a's to go with. The current top of the list for me is the reissue Tung Sol 12ax7a. I've installed a ton of these with no faults, just great tone and performance.
 
thanks Kitty ... I like the tone, so I'll stick with Mesa tubes - but thanks for your vote to get the old one's outta there. I can't help but wonder how many hours were logged on these... and then logically, how many useful hours are left.
 
just a thought,,, I dont believe your mesa has any bias adjustment unless you added a mod.
Buy some new mesa tubes or shop online at douhs or eurotubes and they will find the correct matched tubes in whatever brand you want that will work fine in your boogie. They find other manufacturer tubes that have the same specs as the mesa tubes you buy.
 
My Blue Angel was built in 2000. It has the original tubes, all of them, and gigs every weekend. Pretty well cranked. Sounds great.

Tubes (good ones) will last for years and years. Preamp tubes will last decades, and rectifier tubes will last a lifetime.

Having said that, I do have spares for every slot!

But some players will change their tubes because they had a bad hair day. Ya know?

Best to ya, but I wouldn't change em' unless you HEAR something different. If it sounds good, it's good!
 
Best to ya, but I wouldn't change em' unless you HEAR something different. If it sounds good, it's good!

That's the problem ... now that I know this is 2 yrs old, I've never heard what an LSC sounds like with new tubes. I don't know if I'm one re-tube away from a big improvement. I could find a local store and plug into a 2007 LSC, but a few minutes of some in-store doodling isn't likely to convince me. If I had a chance to hook up a new one along side mine at a gig - now that would do it.

I'm hoping my dealer will hook me up. He told me this was a month old and that's why I bought it. I have faith he'll be a stand-up guy and help me out.
 
That's the problem ... now that I know this is 2 yrs old, I've never heard what an LSC sounds like with new tubes.

That's the great thing about old tubes......you get to keep them :D
 
Maury, my "NOS" Mesa preamp tubes are just killer. In fact, my NOS SPax7a's can easily go head to head in performance and tone with the (new) Tung Sol 12ax7a's, which gives me a couple of benchmarks. The newer SPax7a's and 12ax7a's from Mesa have been kinda spotty...some killer, some not so. From what I've been told by the folks at Mesa, the NOS's are Chinese tubes that underwent extensive testing. Not sure why the newer ones aren't up to par..maybe a drop in quality control at Mesa?

From what I understand, Mesa is still using Chinese (Ruby) tubes. That might be changing in the very near future from what I understand.

Of course, everyone has to consider what shipping can do to a vacuum tube and all it's tiny components inside the bottle....it's any wonder ANY tube makes it safely from the manufacturer to the consumer without total failure :D

Going back to biasing the output tubes. You have to consider the fact that Mesa biases their amps "cold". This is to perserve tube life (i.e. using the same set for over 1 year under heavy use).

All tube amps can be rebiased.

Of course, if you're Mesa is still under warranty, the warranty won't be voided if you use Groove Tubes brand tubes with ratings between 4 and 7.Otherwise, per Mesa, you will void the warranty. This can be viewed several ways. Most of us see it as a way for Mesa to get you to buy only Mesa's tubes. My clients with under warranty Mesa's have forgone the ploy and have their amps biased to their new tubes...but that's why they get the killer tone that they have.

For what it's worth, we are currently finishing up our own amplifier design and have decided to go with the Tung Sol 12ax7a's for our v1 and v2 positions, the TAD (Tube Amp Doctor) 12ax7a-c for the phase inverter tube, and are at a toss-up between the SED (Winged C) and TAD EL34 for output tubes. We are currently testing different types of GZ34's for the rectifier (the amp is switchable; either tube or solid state). Right now the Shunguang GZ34 is in there and kicking butt!
 
domct203 said:
Rocky said:
Here is a little to chew on: Tom Morello has had the same tubes in his JCM 800 for 20 years.

:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

We're talking pre-amp tubes here, right?

Dom

ALL the tubes are the same ones that he has been using since he bought the amp. The article I read that in was in 2003. Even if he has changed em now that still should make ppl think about tube life.
 
Aspen invented the whole "change your tubes like you change sparkplugs" thing because.......

HE WAS A TUBE SALESMAN!

I've got a 1972 Fender Champ with original tubes. They test perfect to this day.

I played a Peavey Classic 50 combo with EL84's that ran wide open in a Classic/Southern rock Band for 3 years. At least 2 nights a week, sometimes 3 or 4. Sold it with original tubes.

My 2000 Blue Angel has the original tubes. All 11 of them. Works every weekend.

My 96 Fender Prosonic has all original preamp tubes, I put some 40 year old Sylvanias in the power section, and a 40+ year old Mullard in the rectifier.

Snake oil salesmen sell snake oil. Tube salesmen sell tubes. The fact is, nobody works tubes harder than me, I gig a 38 watt (non master volume) amp turned to 3/4+ power several nights a week. The tubes have been in service for 7 years. I will not change any tubes until "MY EARS" tell me to.

I have spares ready to go in case of a problem, and fuses.

But a good tube is a good tube. It's not rocket science. In fact, it's very primative. A good tube will last for decades.

Don't buy in to the hype.

Best of luck.
 
I think if anyone has to rebias their Mesa amp to make it sound good, they shouldn't be playing the amp...:wink:

Use the tubes until they stop sounding good to you. As others here have pointed out, tubes can go a stupid crazy amount of time and work/sound just fine.
 
For some education....Aspen wasn't the one who "invented" the recommendation to change out worn tubes..or the "spark plug" analogy, he just printed it in an accessible format that the public could read. It's been around and common knowledge in the tube amplification world since the 40's.

It's not the "snake oil" salesmen either. Sure, brand and manufacturer salesmen want their tubes to be bought and installed in your amp.

It's been the tube amp designers/manufacturers, repair shop techs,and experienced road techs that understand what it takes to get the best out of a tube amp and the tubes used to do so. They also understand that tubes can and do fail. So do the amps they are in...just like cars...if you don't care for them properly.

Some tubes can and do last a lifetime. Most don't....at least to the original way they were when they were new.

In the case of Tom Morrello's amp, I'm willing to bet that he has that specific amp (as well as his others) serviced regularly...all components checked for any value driftings, filter caps replaced and output tubes biased...whether the original tubes remain in the amp or not. Tom's a professional and has professional care provided for his equipment. Don't be fooled into believing that he walked into Guitar Center in 1980, bought the Marshall half stack that he commonly uses and doesn't do anything to keep his Marshall working properly and to his liking. Specially after how many tours/shows that he has done with that amp.

You'd really be surprised just how much clarity, low end and harmonic content you're missing by using output tubes that have been "beat to death" by heavy use.
 
A tube will "work" for a lifetime--ie, it will produce output and not blow up. That's not the same as sounding great.

I change tubes every six months. Given, I use Chinese tubes (the sound in my 395 is so much better with them for some odd reason) so the durability isn't there so much, but I've had the same thing with other tubes. Every time I swap them the cabs come alive. I don't notice it at the time, as the sizzle fades slowly over time. When I retube, though, THEN it's obvious.

If you have a tubby tone, you might not notice it so much. I have a lot of presence, though, so it really shows.

Preamp tubes, not so much. I swap them every few years.
 
But then again. The same test is being done on a new tube, that is done on a 40 + year old tube, and if the 40 + year old tube rates better.

IT'S BETTER!

The theory that age, or hours, makes a tube weak is insane. If it test weak, it's weak, dump it, change it. But my ( 40 + year old) Mullards and Sylvanias test better (and sound better) than a brand new Chinese tube.

So why the hell would I change em'?

Because they're old?

It's a no brainer. A better tube is a better tube, regardless of age or hours. I'll choose the better tube everyday. That's why NOS tubes sell for such a premium.

They're better.

Best of luck.
 
HipKitty said:
In the case of Tom Morrello's amp, I'm willing to bet that he has that specific amp (as well as his others) serviced regularly...all components checked for any value driftings, filter caps replaced and output tubes biased...whether the original tubes remain in the amp or not. Tom's a professional and has professional care provided for his equipment. Don't be fooled into believing that he walked into Guitar Center in 1980, bought the Marshall half stack that he commonly uses and doesn't do anything to keep his Marshall working properly and to his liking. Specially after how many tours/shows that he has done with that amp.

The reviewer in Guitar Player asked questions on that line....servicing etc. Tom said that it has never been opened or serviced because he believes that once you start tinkering things go wrong.

Be bought it and it is running on all the same parts that came with it.

Pretty **** amazing.
 
If I may jump in...I just found out through trial and error that the V4 in my F50 is bad...I had no output with it...none. Can I just replace that one tube or do I need to do the set?
Will the standard 12ax7 off the MB site be fine.

Thanks
 
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