Trouble shooting (Tri Rec)

[David.W]

hi there, I havnt been around for a while, ive been jamming more lately. I just stopped in for a little advice. Last night I noticed mt tone was altered a bit. I havnt touched anything in the last 6 months, tubes and pre amps have about 70 hours on them, power tubes have about 140 hours on them (6L6 =c=).

At low levels i noticed the gain was a bit dry and flat. Then when i cranked up to jamming levels the tone seemed thinner, less bassy and the gain was fizzier at this level. felt a bit weak, i would say. It was usable, but diminished by 10-15% so to speak. The amp is in stellar working condition, its an '05 no previous issues. Ive always warmed up and cooled down my tubes correctly.

My question is, does this sound like pre-amp symptoms or power tube or something else all together?

Thanks for all and any posts!

~D

 

[NoGlassNoClass]

Poor/mushy bass response is usually a symptom of power tubes, but I would think they would last a lot longer than 140 hrs, especially the SED's which have a reputation of quality (for new-production tubes). That said, any tube can fail at any time. Throw another set in there and see what happens. You could try swapping preamp tubes one at a time and see if that helps, but my bet is on power tubes.

 

[David.W]

My post was not accurate however, the power tubes are stock mesa's, the others are SED 6L6 =C= and the pre amps are Dougs tung sol concoction. So its the stock mesa power tubes with 140 hours on them.

Im gonna order some new power tubes from Doug asap and see if that helps.

Thanks!

 

[David.W]

I just had an idea...if it is a power tube issue, switching to diodes should reinstate my lost tone, no?

 

[domct203]

I just had an idea...if it is a power tube issue, switching to diodes should reinstate my lost tone, no?

NO.

The Tube/Diode switch controls the choice of rectification (changing AC to DC) from diodes to Tubes (5U4GB).

The only power section in your Mesa is All Tube (6L6GC).

Dom

 

[NoGlassNoClass]

You can remove the rectifiers (5u4's) and run the amp in the Silicon Diode setting, but if the amp is working in tube-rec mode and doesnt blow fuses the rectifier tubes are OK. The rectifiers either work or they dont...if one is failing it wont affect your tone, it will just blow the fuse.

 

[David.W]

I have a feeling its a blown speaker now, all i hear is mud.

 

[David.W]

Update

Okay my speakers are all fine, I swapped out all my tubes except the 5U4GB and the effects are the same. Sounds like a mid heavy tone, muddy. Could the 5U4GB be causing this?

Thanks for reading,
~D

 

[tobytheplatypus]

do you have it set to use the vacuum tubes or the silicon diode?

 

[David.W]

Vacuum tubes (bold).

 

[NoGlassNoClass]

Try removing the rectifier tubes from your amp and running in the Silicon Diode setting. Also please post your settings... every knob front and back.

 

[David.W]

Okay sorry bout the delay, I wanted to try a few things before i posted again.

I pulled the rectifier tubes and and ran in diodes, no difference.

Ive swapped out my newer seds for my stock mesa's (as mentioned above) no difference.

speakers seem fine

Ive ran several cords and eliminated my entire chain to minimize the possibilities

settings- channel three/modern/loop on (send max, receive min)
master 12:00
solo 12:00
Pre: 12:00
Bass- 3:00
Mid- 9:00/10
Gain- 1:00
Treb 1:00
volume 9ish (to match acoustic drums usually)

To more define what im hearing, the clean sound is thin and dry, and low levels i can maintain tone, but once we hit those jamming levels, the amp sounds like its pushing too hard, the bass definition is gone, the gain is too saturated and smears the tone.

im at a loss,
all input welcome.
thanks guys!

~D

 

[NoGlassNoClass]

settings- channel three/modern/loop on (send max, receive min)
master 12:00
solo 12:00
Pre: 12:00
Bass- 3:00
Mid- 9:00/10
Gain- 1:00
Treb 1:00
volume 9ish (to match acoustic drums usually)

,... but once we hit those jamming levels...

Turn Loop Send down to around 1:30, Presence down until the fizz goes away, Bass WAY down like to 12:30 max, and maybe mids up just a touch. Report back.

 

[ToneAddictJon]

Are you using the footswitch or a switching system of some sort? Make sure it's not a grounding issue of some sort. Are you using a power conditioner and what effects do you have in the loop?

 

[David.W]

Thanks Taj, NGNC Yes im using a power bar/conditioner. My chain is :

Peterson Tuner>Tremonti wah>Maxon AD-9> Rocktron tsunami chorus

I run the entire chain out front, but as I posted above I do have the effects loop on, It just sounds fuller to my ears.

To add to my above post, last night I swapped my SEDs back in, and I noticed alot of background hummming and hissing, youthink it may be the power bar?

Turn Loop Send down to around 1:30, Presence down until the fizz goes away, Bass WAY down like to 12:30 max, and maybe mids up just a touch. Report back.

I like the tone no doubt, and like my own sound it sounds great at lower levels, when i pushed the amp to jam levels, again it lost definition. The worst example is trying to play something like Metallica the double picking and palm muting/muffling sounds ridiculous (at jam levels)

Thanks again, this is very helpful.
~D

 

[NoGlassNoClass]

Is your cab as old as the amp? V30s sound horrible until they are broken in and it gets worse with volume. Assuming the spks have more than 40-50 hours of loud playing on them, and assuming the power tubes are all good, start looking at other things in your signal path. What are your settings on the pedals like?

 

[David.W]

Make sure it's not a grounding issue of some sort

Bingo!

I went out and bought a new/better power bar, just to eliminate the grounding issue, and that made all the difference. All the body and definition came back instantly. High volume just sounds amazing.

Think its time i started looking into a conditioner.

Thanks for taking the time to help me out guys, Merry Christmas !

~D