Trip Rect 2Ch Solo Head: Orange and Red Different Voicings??

[SixStringShredder]

Hello,

When I set my orange channel to modern high gain, and the red channel to modern high gain, then set the tone, presence, volume, and gain controls EXACTLY the same, I don't get the same sound. They sound on the orange less treblely than the red channel, and no adjustment to the orange channel controls make it sound the same. I am using the stock FX loop for delay, no EQ.

It seems like the red channel has way more treble/prescence and sizzle that just sounds so good. I can't get the orange channel to sound the same as the red. Is this because they are just designed to be different????

I was hoping to have them set up identical, but boost the master on the the red channel for leads, and run a bit more gain than the orange. I just did a retube with Eurotubes high gain kit. WOW!

Thanks,

6

 

[mikey383]

Despite what Mesa says, the channels do not sound the same. Also, keep in mind, the pots can have up to a 20% variance from their spec. If one pot is varied 20% one way, and the same pot on the next channel is varied 20% the other way, you now have a 40% differential between them. So you may need to dial in more on one channel than you do the other.

The Orange channel has more warmer, thicker mids than the red channel. The red channel has more high end and is thinner. If you want more high end out of the orange channel, you can add a capacitor across the gain control. The tremoverb has this additional capacitor in parallel with the existing cap. I added it in my Dual in order to try getting a better clean tone, and it seemed to bring the channels closer together when I cloned the orange to modern. I used a 680pf cap, the same that the TOV has.

 

[94Tremoverb]

I'm pretty sure this is the same as for the Tremoverb, which is based on the 2-channel DR.

From the Tremoverb owner's manual - "NOTE: When the CHANNEL CLONING (TM) feature is used and the MODERN RED channel is cloning RED to VINTAGE (so that it sounds like the ORANGE channel) - be aware that both the ORANGE and RED channels' PRESENCE Controls are active in the (bottom) RED channel in this setting only." In other words, when the Red channel is cloned to Vintage, *both* presence controls are active on the Red channel. (This is because they work in different parts of the circuit - the Red channel presence control is in the preamp, but the Orange channel one is in the power amp, so it isn't disabled when switching to the Red channel when the cloning is activated.) Depending on their settings, the Orange channel presence control setting is added to the effect of the Red channel one, and give a brighter sound on the Red channel. But the Red channel setting is *not* added to the Orange channel, so you can't get that brighter tone.

And/or - there may be a fault, if it's not just as simple as this. The switching on these amps is done with LDRs, which control various different things including some of the voicing changes between the two modes. If one of the LDRs is dead, the cloning might not work properly - this was a fault on my Tremoverb when I bought it, and I'm familiar with what the manual says since I had to read that bit several times before I was convinced that it wasn't actually working right! The trick is to identify exactly which LDR it is from the complex switching matrix schematic - and then hope it's not at the bottom of a stack (which are up to four high) on the PCB...

 

[mikey383]

I'm pretty sure this is the same as for the Tremoverb, which is based on the 2-channel DR.

From the Tremoverb owner's manual - "NOTE: When the CHANNEL CLONING (TM) feature is used and the MODERN RED channel is cloning RED to VINTAGE (so that it sounds like the ORANGE channel) - be aware that both the ORANGE and RED channels' PRESENCE Controls are active in the (bottom) RED channel in this setting only." In other words, when the Red channel is cloned to Vintage, *both* presence controls are active on the Red channel. (This is because they work in different parts of the circuit - the Red channel presence control is in the preamp, but the Orange channel one is in the power amp, so it isn't disabled when switching to the Red channel when the cloning is activated.) Depending on their settings, the Orange channel presence control setting is added to the effect of the Red channel one, and give a brighter sound on the Red channel. But the Red channel setting is *not* added to the Orange channel, so you can't get that brighter tone.

And/or - there may be a fault, if it's not just as simple as this. The switching on these amps is done with LDRs, which control various different things including some of the voicing changes between the two modes. If one of the LDRs is dead, the cloning might not work properly - this was a fault on my Tremoverb when I bought it, and I'm familiar with what the manual says since I had to read that bit several times before I was convinced that it wasn't actually working right! The trick is to identify exactly which LDR it is from the complex switching matrix schematic - and then hope it's not at the bottom of a stack (which are up to four high) on the PCB...

He's not cloning red to vintage though...he's cloning orange to modern. The presence controls are separate in this setting I believe.

 

[94Tremoverb]

You're right .

I had to read the manual several times before I got it the first time! So either it's just the differences in the pots, or there's maybe an LDR fault.

 

[mikey383]

You're right .

I had to read the manual several times before I got it the first time! So either it's just the differences in the pots, or there's maybe an LDR fault.

Well, the presence control on the red channel takes off where the orange channel's leaves off too. Maybe that has something to do with it. That would definitely account for the lack of bite in the orange channel.

The red channel normally sounds brighter than the orange even on the same settings, just because of the differences in the presence pot.

IMO, adding the bright cap helped out a lot to bring the channels closer together. Dual and Triple Recs are structured different than a TOV in the preamp, but that bright cap seemed to make a world of difference on the cloned setting. Not so much on the clean though.

 

[SixStringShredder]

Ok well its good to know I don't have a faulty amp. I'd like to have both channels identical. I think that would be perfect! What is a LDR?

Thanks