Triaxis output levels

[dass101]

I'm having some problems understanding the various output levels of the Triaxis.

I tested it in the following manner:
Preset volume 5 (half)
The send output puts out a reasonable volume, which fed into my sound card is OK.
The record out heavily overdrives my sound card's input, making it unusable
The output matches the send ouput at about 9 o'clock, anything above that also heavily overdrives the sound card.

Looking at the schematic I notice that the rec out and the normal out go through an additional tube amplification stage, thus explaining the difference in output level.

I can only speculate that the send ouput is -10 dBV and the rec and normal out are +4dBV. Is this correct? If so, how can I possible use the rec out? Can anybody confirm that they are able to use this ouput, with a regular line level sound card, without heavy clipping?

Strangest thing is, I actually feel that the whole unit is putting out a too hot signal, today I hooked the Triaxis directly to my hand made 100 W tube Power amp, using the (lower) send ouput, and I felt that it was way too loud, with 5 at the preset volume, and the power amp at 9 o clock max, I felt that it would blow the speakers. I normally put a Digitech GSP 1101 between the two units, and with the various patch level attenuations things are in control. Probably if I hooked the regular output (much hotter) I couldn't
even move a notch on the power amp level.

Does this seem familiar to anyone? Is all the above normal?
Thanks
Dragos

 

[ando]

The Triaxis definitely has a very high output - far too high actually, but it's easily fixed by just turning down the Master Volume. It's more of a pain for live performance if you use the Record outs directly into a PA - because you don't want to reset all your master volume levels for every patch. But for recording, it takes 2 seconds to get the output to an appropriate level that won't max out your sound card input.

 

[dass101]

I actually imagined that I could use the rec out live, with my regular patch levels. It sure seems like a normal scenario.
On the other hand, I might see a problem with balancing the clean and lead tones. With 5 on a normal drive (L2Y) preset, I turn the clean to about 3, or maybe even 1 if I use a hotter R Green setting. I can't get any lower in order to keep the Rec out from overloading the input

 

[ando]

Sound cards typically have less headroom than a mixer so that they are able to cope without physical gain trimpots. If you find you can't get the master volume down low enough to avoid clipping, just go through a mixer first and reduce the output a bit. Most PA's/mixers will cope with the Triaxis (mine does), but the gain on the mixer strip will usually be on zero to avoid clipping, and you still might have to reduce the master volume on the patches you plan to use.

I guess the reason the Triaxis record outs are so hot is because Mesa didn't want to add more solid state (op amps) circuitry to reduce the gain produced by the tubes. They were trying to keep the signal as pure as possible - although obviously they are messing with the sound a bit when simulating a power amp and miked speaker cab.

 

[dass101]

Well, it seems that you confirm all that I noticed about my unit. You know, there is actually one thing that can be done, without messing with the circuit inside the Triaxis. V5 is the tube that handles all the final amplification (one half for each one of the stereo outputs), and its gain is responsible for the hot rec and regular outputs (in regard to the send output) A simple replacement with a 12AT7 for a bit less gain, or a 12AU7 if this is still too hot, would do just fine. Unfortunately I don't have any of these at hand, to try and see what happens...

 

[Danimal]

they are messing with the sound a bit when simulating a power amp and miked speaker cab.

And do they work? As long as I've owned a TriAxis I've never tried the record outs. Maybe I should give them a whirl.

 

[ando]

Well, it seems that you confirm all that I noticed about my unit. You know, there is actually one thing that can be done, without messing with the circuit inside the Triaxis. V5 is the tube that handles all the final amplification (one half for each one of the stereo outputs), and its gain is responsible for the hot rec and regular outputs (in regard to the send output) A simple replacement with a 12AT7 for a bit less gain, or a 12AU7 if this is still too hot, would do just fine. Unfortunately I don't have any of these at hand, to try and see what happens...

Yes, if you put 12AT7's in V3 and V5 apparently you get a lower output without hurting your tone. I'm planning on doing that myself sometime. I do have some old 12AT7's lying around so I'll try it out and let you know if it's a dramatic difference.

 

[ando]

And do they work? As long as I've owned a TriAxis I've never tried the record outs. Maybe I should give them a whirl.

I've never actually recorded with them, but they sound quite good through a PA. Helped me to do a gig without carting a whole rig along.