Triaxis, or Mark IV Head?

[disassembled]

1-So having less watts doesn't mean you have less volume ?
2-If not, less watts means what ?

Physics class :lol:

#1 - Right.........think of solid state VS tubes. They are both rated the same but most people agree a good 50 watt tube head will be louder than a 100 watt solid state head.

#2. less watts usually means less headroom and less clear bass.


There are too many variables other than wattage because different amps are more efficient than others so just to compare wattage is only part of equation.


Besides, this is getting way off topic and we probably should be trying to help the person that wants to know what to buy...............


You should search the internet for discussion on this very topic as it has appeared on every amp message board I've been on.

Greg

 

[18&Life]

So whem I'm buying an amp,what parameter will tell me what model is louder ?
If watts can't tell me it, what can ?
How will I know if the amp I am buying will be louder enough to fight against drums ?

Humm I think now I made myself clear and somebody will give the answer I need !
If someone say you have to try all amps at the store,I will answer that saying that ANY amp will sound very loud beeing played alone at the store.
So what parameter or measurement will tell me what amp is louder.
:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

 

[visualrocker69]

You're being silly and sarcastic, but its an interesting question.

Don't ohms matter to?

From what I undertstand, "wattage" is NOT a very consistent rating even if considered alone.

 

[ToneAddictJon]

If you turn the amp to 3 and your ears start bleeding, that one will cut it :twisted:
Honestly, most amps will make it in a band situation, it's the speakers you have to check more than the amp. My 1x12 thiele sounds louder than any of my other speakers (it's the 200 watt with EV). Pretty much any 50-150 watt amp is gonna be similar in output capabilities, with the tube amps feeling louder.

 

[18&Life]

You're being silly and sarcastic, but its an interesting question.

Not at all I'm just trying to understand about physics!!!!
I think you didn't understand my point.

Disassembled seemed to be a guy who know about electronics.
I am asking because I don't know the answer.

Silly and sarcastic,not at all dude :shock:

 

[disassembled]

You're being silly and sarcastic, but its an interesting question.

Not at all I'm just trying to understand about physics!!!!
I think you didn't understand my point.

Disassembled seemed to be a guy who know about electronics.
I am asking because I don't know the answer.

Silly and sarcastic,not at all dude :shock:

You should start a new topic.............

 

[18&Life]

ok

 

[18&Life]

ok

 

[18&Life]

ok

 

[visualrocker69]

You're being silly and sarcastic, but its an interesting question.

Not at all I'm just trying to understand about physics!!!!
I think you didn't understand my point.

Disassembled seemed to be a guy who know about electronics.
I am asking because I don't know the answer.

Silly and sarcastic,not at all dude :shock:

You should start a new topic.............

*facedesk* WHY did you encourage him......?

 

[JAZZGEAR]

You're being silly and sarcastic, but its an interesting question.

Not at all I'm just trying to understand about physics!!!!
I think you didn't understand my point.

Disassembled seemed to be a guy who know about electronics.
I am asking because I don't know the answer.

Silly and sarcastic,not at all dude :shock:

When shopping for an amp "for loudness" you have to look at the very minimum, for the wattage and efficiency of those watts.

For example, take the Mesa 20/20, 20 watts per side, and lets say it has a Signal to Noise Ratio of 110 db


then take another amp rated at 100 watts with a S/N of 80db

The 20 watt amp is going to sound louder because each of its watts is more efficient in producing clean sound.

To get a 6 db increase in sound you have to double the wattage....

So in the above example, there is a disparity of 30 db between the 20 and 100 watt amp.... so do the rest of the math


Also, when reading an amp's rated watts (this is more the case with solid state amps), not all manufacturers adhere to a universal standard in stating the wattage.

For example, an amp manufacturer may say Amp A is rated at 400 Watts. But when you go to an oscilloscope the measure its true wattage, you may find that it is only a 100 watt amp. But at several points of the sound wave it may have spiked (transients) up to 400 watts. So, the manufacturer goes with the max reading.

Other more forthright manufacturers take the average or mean of the sound wave and report that as the consistent wattage.

So you'd want an amp that produces a consistent wattage vs a peak wattage.

The same concept applies to speakers when looking at wattage & S/N ratios.

 

[JAZZGEAR]

Now getting back to the topic of this post.

I have a Mark IV and have had several Triaxis....had both together for many years.

I really wish I had never sold my Triaxis. There are many things the Triaxis can do that the Mark IV cannot. On the other hand, I feel the Triaxis can do everythign the Mark IV can. However, there is a preceived vibe you will never get out of the Triaxis that you can only experience in the amp itself. This to me became less evident in a band mix, however.

In the studio, the Triaxis was my preferred choice for my Mark IV sounds. I found it easier to get the saturated lead tones I wanted without having to crank up the volume.

I sold my Triaxis rig to get the RK II; and while it has not dissapointed....
I have lately felt that the Triaxis rig was more portable and had more of the other tones I like most (Mark). So I am contemplating going back to my Triaxis and possibly selling my RK II.

And I have been through the 2:90/5:50/and 2:20 affairs. And I much much prefer the 20/20 over all of them -- although I'll admit the 2:90 sounds the best with it (the only power amp that will get you the true Mark IV tones). But I just prefer the form factor weight and vibe of the 20/20 with the Triaxis; especially in light of the fact that if I wanted 100% Mark IV tones, well, then I'd just use the Mark IV amp itself.

In a 4 space rack, I had

Fruman
G Force
Triaxis
20/20

then a 2x12 stereo cab.

That was light, loud & musical, and portable

Sorry for the long post, but had to put myin my .05

 

[visualrocker69]

Does it sound good even with the 20/20? What are the differences in EL-84 tone compared to the others?

It's not simul-class, either. How does that affect the sound?

About the Triaxis... what is your opinion on the lack of GEQ and how that affects flexibility, etc?

 

[JAZZGEAR]

Does it sound good even with the 20/20? What are the differences in EL-84 tone compared to the others?

It's not simul-class, either. How does that affect the sound?

About the Triaxis... what is your opinion on the lack of GEQ and how that affects flexibility, etc?

Having owned and giged with a Triaxis for over 10 years, I can tell you that it is best mated with the 2:90 for the true blue Mark tones.

However the 20/20 sounds unbelievable through the Triaxis....and through the years' I've come to prefer it over the 2:90.

with the 2:90, I found it extremely difficult to control it in smaller venues, volume wise -- too low didn't get the saturation I wanted, too high , well you know the rest. The 20/20, IMHO seems like an even better mate for the Triaxis. And I never ever missed the Deep, Half & Modern Modes.


Foot print and weight aside, the 20/20 is more dynamic than the 2:90, and the lead tones are better IMHO with the 20/20 (those EL84s saturate easier than do those 8 6L6 monsters).

I have never missed not having the graphic EQ on the Triaxis. I found I could always get my sound with the controls onboard and the dynamic voice. Plus I used the EQ onboard my G Force to further accentuate the frequencies desired.

IMHO if you're giggig more small to medium venues, I'd go with the 20/20.

For the larger venues, then you really need the 2:90 -- even mic'd as I personally don't like the EL84s when they become too compressed from pushing them so hard (But that is is going to be a very loud situation).

Also, the 2:90 only distinguished itself, volumewise from the 20/20 in the really large venues.

You will find that the 20/20 is just as loud (if not louder) than the 2:90 at the same dial settings on the amp - - up to about 1:30) then the 2:90 takes the lead (i.e. 1 O'clock on the 20/20 is super louder than on that same setting on the 2:90).

And those who own the 20/20 will tell you that 1:00 setting on this amp is super duper loud -- I never had to push mine past 12:00.....usually lived around 9 to 11:00

 

[18&Life]

When shopping for an amp "for loudness" you have to look at the very minimum, for the wattage and efficiency of those watts.

For example, take the Mesa 20/20, 20 watts per side, and lets say it has a Signal to Noise Ratio of 110 db


then take another amp rated at 100 watts with a S/N of 80db

The 20 watt amp is going to sound louder because each of its watts is more efficient in producing clean sound.

To get a 6 db increase in sound you have to double the wattage....

So in the above example, there is a disparity of 30 db between the 20 and 100 watt amp.... so do the rest of the math


Also, when reading an amp's rated watts (this is more the case with solid state amps), not all manufacturers adhere to a universal standard in stating the wattage.

For example, an amp manufacturer may say Amp A is rated at 400 Watts. But when you go to an oscilloscope the measure its true wattage, you may find that it is only a 100 watt amp. But at several points of the sound wave it may have spiked (transients) up to 400 watts. So, the manufacturer goes with the max reading.

Other more forthright manufacturers take the average or mean of the sound wave and report that as the consistent wattage.

So you'd want an amp that produces a consistent wattage vs a peak wattage.

The same concept applies to speakers when looking at wattage & S/N ratios.

Thanks Jazz what a hell of explanation !! :shock:
You're the man :wink:

 

[visualrocker69]

Jazz, can you control all the functions of the Triaxis via G Force and a foot controller like the Beringher thing with expression pedals etc

 

[ToneAddictJon]

You'd be able to control it all with any midi controller, they are all midi controlled. When I had a midi setup I had my main 4-5 tones then programmed those to each kick on different effects depending which version of the tones I wanted for what song. It became overkill for me, but it's a very easy way to have lots of minor to major differences with only one button to push for each sound.