Too many "haters"

[primal]

Wow,

It had been a while since I was at the Gear Page. Still a lot of boogie haters there, but Boogie was getting some love too, at least the Mark series.

Looking around it seemed there was more hate for the Recto's. Still some hate for all boogies but they had a post your Mark series amp thread.

I went ahead and posted mine.

Was going to add a comment there about my surprise of the lack of boogie hate in that thread, but figured better not fan the flames.

If an amp isn't for you, then it's just not for you, but the dual rectifier will go down as one of the all time greatest amps and the sound of an era in music!

 

[scottieL]

someone post some clips of some recto crunch and maybe a bit of MKIV lead, and say it's a marshall or some sh!t. Wait for 20 or so replies of praise and BS about how great marshalls are and then break the news to them that its a mesa. post a link to it here so we can all have a good laugh. :lol:

 

[dodger916]

BoogieBoarders: have we not too become "haters" by our participation in a thread about "haters"? Have we been unknowing & unbeknownst to us sucked into their game of hate? Hmmmm :lol:

You took the words...

 

[Gstevens]

.........custom, gormet, hi-fi, boutique string winders and pickholders!

How much would one cost me? It must be better than my current stuff!

 

[Monsta-Tone]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I hate haters!!!!!!!!!!!!


Seriously, though....I get more comments on my tone than I ever did when I played Marshall, Ampeg 5150, etc.
I don't care what anyone says, they call them 'Boogie' for a reason!!!!!!!!


I did a song for a Marshall forum CD. The CD was for charity and a great cause.
I used a 5150 and said it was a Marshall! :mrgreen:


I get the Boogie hate in real life too.
A good friend of mine has been through 2 custom amps from our shop. He swears by them. I think they're really nice too!
He always makes fun of me for building custom amps and still playing my DC-10 and now my Heartbreaker.
He calls it 'Humbucker ****!' **** Strat snobs!!!!! :lol:

 

[Monsta-Tone]

The level of discourse at The Gear Page is a lot higher, but 90 percent of them are Dumble snobs with too much spare money. There were recently not one, but two threads consisting of arguments about whether PTP was better than PCB construction, each one dozens of pages long. There was also a thread full of people swearing up and down that the tone of their amp improved when they started using a $200 boutique power cable. It's really unbelievable.

Ever wonder why the word Dumble contains the word Dumb?!?!?

Coincidence.....I think not!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[ryjan]

Most of these guys probably bought their amps based of what was fashionable and trendy instead of playing the guts out of many different brands and types. Its sad that some dumb kid will go on one of these general forums and talk **** about an amp that they probably never played though. Their mentallity is like "we are on the Marshall team, yeah!" Real musicians love variety of tone and even though I gravitate towards one amp or another I still love to play as many amps as I can afford (which is about one and a half right now).

 

[Paulie]

I was/am a lifelong Marshall guy (most recently the TSL). My first Mesa was a Dual Rec. It took me the better part of 6 months to really get to know the amp and understand how to dial it in when external factors (room size, cabinet choice, the particular drummer, etc...) change from gig to gig.

As everyone on this forum knows, the way most Mesa amps operate is COMPLETELY different from Marshalls. When the lifelong Marshall guy goes to GC and plugs in, they can have a terrible time trying to get a sound they are used to... or at least think they can control the amp in the way that they are used to. They walk away with a bad impression of the amp. This was part of my own 'growing pain'.

I think there is some truth here -

Mesa's very acurately amplify what you play, so for the hack job guitarist, it can be quite frustrating to hear how bad they suck at guitar :lol: :lol:

Mesa's (most) give you no cover and no place to hide. That is, if you have poor technique, it will be exposed. I have never heard a less than skilled guitar player sound great through a Mesa. On the other hand, the only time I have heard Mesas sound amazing is when a quality guitar player is using them (at least IMHO). I'm genreally a lead guy so when I got the DR, I had to slow down and really focus on technique to still play the stuff we were playing - which, over time, made me a much better player (still have a long way to go though).

With all that said, I guess I'm taking a long time to simply say that most Mesa haters haven't spent enough time with them or understand how to get their favorite sounds out of them. If you aren't a fan of the tone of, say, the dual rec, that's fine (I've never been a fan of the Fender OD tone), but all of the big name amps (Mesa, Marshall, Fender, Vox, etc...) are THE signature tone in their own way for very specific genres of music.

No need to hate on Mesa or any other amps - they just simply don't do it for everyone.

 

[ryjan]

I first had a crappy ss ibanez amp with no effects and then one day I went into gc and walked out with a Triaxis/290 and a boss gt8. Two years later I kind of had an idea how to use it. That was a fun journey though. So I can see why first impressions must suck for guy not used to how things work in boogieville.

 

[boogieslayer]

i enjoy playing thru many amps including marshall and fender,etc etc...but hands down for me boogie is where it is for me !

 

[Mungo Zen]

Best advice I ever got on choosing an amp was to listen to musicians I liked, then research what they used. A lot of artists I like that had a really distinctive tone were using Mesa's. If it had been Marshall's or Fender's or something else, I would have been spending more time looking at them. I think the only amp manufacturer I didn't check out which seemed interesting was H&K.

Anyway, a lot of people don't think with their ears when it comes to music, which is a shame. Every album is a piece of reference material for you to decide on how to build your own tone. When "haters" get their rant on about something, they will typically cite facts, but when it comes to tone, there are no facts. Either you like it or you don't (or are just ambivalent to the tone).

 

[lyman]

My thoughts on why some people hate Mesa:

- Ever go into a music store and see a Mesa with all the knobs dimed? Sure, that might work for some amps but it's just not the nature of the beast, in this case. That person trying out the amp isn't going to think "man, I suck at setting these controls" they're going to think "man, this amp sucks."

- People dismiss them because they don't like the genre of music they associate with the brand (namely "nu-metal" for lots of folks). I've done my research to know that there is way more to Mesa's product line than the tread-plate recto amps. On a couple occasions, upon hearing my Maverick, comments have gone like "That clean tone sounds great, usually Mesas suck for clean." :lol:

- Lastly, I think some people see something written online, or hear their buddy's opinion, and then simply repeat it to sound authoritative - as if they're a tone guru when in reality they have never taken the time to actually try out the amp/pedal/whatever.

 

[JOEY B.]

My thoughts on why some people hate Mesa:

- Ever go into a music store and see a Mesa with all the knobs dimed? Sure, that might work for some amps but it's just not the nature of the beast, in this case. That person trying out the amp isn't going to think "man, I suck at setting these controls" they're going to think "man, this amp sucks."

- People dismiss them because they don't like the genre of music they associate with the brand (namely "nu-metal" for lots of folks). I've done my research to know that there is way more to Mesa's product line than the tread-plate recto amps. On a couple occasions, upon hearing my Maverick, comments have gone like "That clean tone sounds great, usually Mesas suck for clean." :lol:

- Lastly, I think some people see something written online, or hear their buddy's opinion, and then simply repeat it to sound authoritative - as if they're a tone guru when in reality they have never taken the time to actually try out the amp/pedal/whatever.

You hit the nail on the head. When I comment on the amp that I play (MkIIC+), most people assume that I am into metal. The real reason that I went to Boogies many years ago is that they were so versatile (shared controls and all :wink: ). I can go from clean, mean and in-between with one amp.

 

[Murphy Slaw]

On forums, people talk about Boogies. But, in clubs, I mess with their heads.

My Blue Angel has a "Boogie" badge. You can't make a Blue Angel sound bad.....

Old timers have to come get a look at it. With it's 5 knobs. (not counting the tube selector).

:mrgreen:

Murph....

 

[Monsta-Tone]

"Hey, where's the rest of your amp? It only gots 5 knobs...."

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


I loved my Blue Angel. All of my Fender freak friends hated it because it sounded like that and wasn't a Fender! :lol:

 

[jdurso]

All great posts in this thread and a lot of great points. In my time around the block I have found three types of plays:

1. Guys that dont care what they play through just as long as it has a decent sound. These are the beer and chick type players who care more about the scene than their tone or music.

2. Gear snobs who search hear with their eyes. They are the ones that cop other people's opinions and buy into certain myths (tubes over SS, vintage is better than modern, etc) and will use terms like "mojo", "glassy" and "creamy" (although i am guilty of it at times ). They are the ones that care more about the name on the amp then if that amp works for them. They are also the ones that are so close minded they will NEVER experiement with gear and tones outside their paradigm.

3. Guys that care about their tone but dont have any preference either way where they get it from. they are the ones who experiment with just about anything and listen with their ears not their eyes. They're usually the ones that will READ the manuals and give gear a good, long shot before they write it off as not for them. The most important aspect is that they can appreciate a peice of gear for what it does well and respect that... they choose the gear that works for them but dont spread hate if they dont like something. That is due to the fact they can recognize when an amp or guitar of pedal just isn't for them and understand where certain pieces of gear can be used over others.

I see the majority of the guys on this forum as #3s.... There is a lot of love and appreciation for so many different amps, guitars, cabs, effects outside Mesa on this forum that it keeps the flaming and trolling to minimum. Also the guys here have a wealth of knowledge and are always willing to help a brother out... egos are pretty much left at the door and we get some great threads going.

I see Harmony Central as a combo of #1s and #2s, but mostly #1s. No one there offers anything constructive and can never appreciate certain gear for what it does best. Thats why i stick to this forum and only go there to find some bargain basement deals.

 

[Chrissmoth]

Different makes of amps / guitars / pedals are there to offer varieties of sounds

It would be pretty dull musical world if there was a world-wide concencus on what set-up gave THE ultimate guitar sound

ie THIS guitar through THESE effects into THIS amp with THESE settings - cos everyone would sound the same

A pedal that sounds amazing into one amp can sound pants into a different amp.

eg My USA Big Muff sounds amazing into my Subway but sucks hard plugged into my Vox. My DS2 which sounded great into my old solid state Marshall MGDFX, sounds horrible into any valve (tube - for you Yanks) amp I've tried it with.

As to the Boogie flaming I think Marshall amps (for example), offer far more instant gratification - You kinda get THAT sound more or less wherever the tone controls are set. From what I've read, you just don't get that from the higher-end Boogies - I've only ever owned the F-50 (reluctantly sold when I was made redundant) & my Subway Blues - so I wouldn't know for sure. +1 BTW on the 5 Knob amp thing. I know the Subway Blues shares much of the circuitry of the Blue Angel - and it is almost impossible to make the Subway sound bad.

(Again for example) Marshall get their fair share of flaming but I think that's because they make so many budget / beginner / toy amplifiers and new guitar players just see the Marshall logo and think it must be good... Non guitar players have heard of a Marshall but haven't the faintest clue what a Mesa Boogie is - and to be fair why should they care? If they can bang their head (or whatever) to it who cares?

Really high priced boutique amp owners will argue their case as they probably don't want to be appear like an idiot for spending 2 or 3 times the price of a Boogie and being out-toned by one. :lol:

BTW - There are some really cool, helpful guys on the Marshall Amp forum to & no Boogie-flaming that I've seen - in fact there's lots of praise for the Mark III & lots of curiosity about the Mark V - I'm a member but I just prefer it here.

Peace, Love, Empathy - Now go ROCK!

 

[Monsta-Tone]

1. Guys that dont care what they play through just as long as it has a decent sound. These are the beer and chick type players who care more about the scene than their tone or music.

Then again, I've seen guys using a Peavey Backstage Plus and an old PRS and they sound incredible. I saw David Bowie on TV a few years ago. It was just him and Reeves Gabrels, who was using a Parker and a cheap Peavey and he was doing some amazing things.

2. Gear snobs who search hear with their eyes. They are the ones that cop other people's opinions and buy into certain myths (tubes over SS, vintage is better than modern, etc) and will use terms like "mojo", "glassy" and "creamy" (although i am guilty of it at times ). They are the ones that care more about the name on the amp then if that amp works for them. They are also the ones that are so close minded they will NEVER experiement with gear and tones outside their paradigm.

I used to build amps for a bunch of 'Vintage only' guys. They wouldn't even turn on a Mesa, but the amps I built that they loved were almost always Fender Blackface clean and Mark I or II lead! :lol: They loved them because I built them into Mojotone Fender reproduction cabs and chassis! Didn't look like a Mesa, so it must be good..... :lol:



People bag on my Boogies all the time, but when I fire them up, the jaws start dropping. I can't play all that well, so I've always concentrated on the tones and textures rather than the flurry of notes! Plus, they're built like tanks. Try dropping a Marshall TSL and see if it ever works the same again! :lol: There I go hating again! :lol:

 

[Gstevens]

Well I did not think I would be starting such a hot topic! I see I am not the only one out there who has a love for making music, I guess in the end that is what brings us all here......Fender, Mesa, Marshall, Les Paul, whatever, just play........You know, if you play it they will come!!!!

 

[JOEY B.]

People bag on my Boogies all the time, but when I fire them up, the jaws start dropping.

I saw the very same thing happen at an amp "summit" that was held in a nearby town. Lots of vintage Fender, Marshall, VOX, homebrew and modded amps. When the C+ Coliseum started shaking the walls (literally) on the clean channel played through a pair of EV thieles and the neck pickup of a Telecaster, all the talking stopped. It reminded me of the old E.F. Hutton TV commercials. :lol: :lol: :lol: