I just played my LSC through a friend's old 60's Fender 2x12 with JBLs this past weekend. That's the sound -- much cleaner and deeper than the stock Celestions, which sound comparatively very compressed. Time to order a pair of Californias...
The search for tone may be over.
- Thread starter BobL
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Well, I bit the bullet and put the Weber Cali 12, (80 watts, 8 ohms, aluminum dustcap) in my LSC, and it's everything BobL has said it was. I had a Jensen C12K in there and liked it, but the Weber, after a little dialing, blew it away. I found that I didn't need as much gain with the Weber (about 12:00 on the clean channel) to get a great tone. I'm using the EL84/6V6 mixture, and haven't tried it with 6L6s yet, which I think will give me slightly more clean headroom, but the Weber is definitely staying in there. Thanks BobL.
Well it's been a while since my last post so I'll bring you up to date. First, I'm using the Weber California in one Lonestar and a JBL D120F (Orange is the color, which by the way makes no difference) in the other Lonestar. After listening to them side by side for over 2 months I can honestly state that the difference is slightly more mid range in the JBL. Almost to the point where it is not noticible, but again, if you hear them night after night you can hear the difference.
I changed the order of my effects from what I posted above. I now have the BB Preamp AFTER the RC boost. What I have now is full bodied and very chimey clean tones and grind with a distorted sound very similar to Gary Moore, Johnny Winter, etc.
As for the effects loop I would find a revebr that works in front of the amp.
Destroying an 80 speaker takes some massive volume. The JBL D120 or Weber clone require lower input to produce a higher output. With 101db or better sensitivity vs, say 96-98db sensitivity, the actual gain in performance is equal to doubling the output of the amplifier which is what it takes to acheive an additional 3db from any speaker, sound system or guitar amp.
I changed the order of my effects from what I posted above. I now have the BB Preamp AFTER the RC boost. What I have now is full bodied and very chimey clean tones and grind with a distorted sound very similar to Gary Moore, Johnny Winter, etc.
As for the effects loop I would find a revebr that works in front of the amp.
Destroying an 80 speaker takes some massive volume. The JBL D120 or Weber clone require lower input to produce a higher output. With 101db or better sensitivity vs, say 96-98db sensitivity, the actual gain in performance is equal to doubling the output of the amplifier which is what it takes to acheive an additional 3db from any speaker, sound system or guitar amp.
Hi BobL
Thanks for the very infromative posts.
Anyway a couple of things. Do you think it would be a noticable sonic difference between the aluminum dome and the paper dome
Also have you heard anything with regards to the neo mag series. The neomag 12 is supposed to emulate the D120F very closely.
Thanks
BTW I have a Zendrive that is very natural sounding with my LSC and I'm thinking of getting a TIm as another flavor.
Thanks for the very infromative posts.
Anyway a couple of things. Do you think it would be a noticable sonic difference between the aluminum dome and the paper dome
Also have you heard anything with regards to the neo mag series. The neomag 12 is supposed to emulate the D120F very closely.
Thanks
BTW I have a Zendrive that is very natural sounding with my LSC and I'm thinking of getting a TIm as another flavor.
Pageburst said:
You've asked a good question concerning the aluminum dust cover. The aluminum dust cover introduced by Harvey Gerst of JBL serves more than a single purpose. It enhances the high end frequencies slightly, but also serves to help eliminate "cone cry" . Many people refer to cone cry as those ice pick high notes that slam into your head and sound really bad. Well that's one artifact, but cone cry is actually ghost tones and a rippling of the cone as it attempts to reproduce those tones which are harmonically out of sync with the sound being produced. An out of control speaker if you will. That's why the tones jump out at you. They don't belong there in the first place.
Another part of this speaker that reduces cone cry is of course the light doping of the edge. Combine that with a cone that's at least an inch (1") shallower, AND curved (Did you realize the cone is curved??) and you have the begginings of a D120.
I have used the Weber neo based D120 clone. I liked it but didn't like it. Although it nailed the D120 tone, like most neo based speakers it was a little to sterile. Not as warm and with less response to my pick. Over the years as ALNICO (pronounced AL NICK COE, because there's no knee in nickel), has become more expensive and ceramic has finally had all of the bugs worked out most manufacturers now fully understand the differences and can design a speaker using ceramic magnets that emulates an ALNICO design. Neo is still fairly new technology and those differences are not fully understood by many manufacturers. I'll hold off on neo until the jury comes in on neo designed speakers and the technology instrument speakers has matured. I think that will be in a couple of years.
Quick history. Dickie Dale did not help with the design of the D series speakers Gerst had already designed the speaker but widened the coil gap to eliminate scraping at very high volumes, the "F" in D120F denotes used in and purchased by Fender, not designed for Fender, there is no difference between the grey and the orange painted D120, and the Showman used a D130 15" speaker. All JBL's put into a Fender amp where done so by special order, including the D110 10" speakers used in the very collectable Super Reverb, a speaker/amp combo favored by SRV. The Gratefull Dead wall of sound is almost all JBL D120 and D130 speakers. Who would have thunk.
pmtrub
Well-known member
Hey Bob, I'm looking at the weber site, and what impedance did you go with for california ceramics in a LSC?
Wow thanks BobL. You are a well spring of knowledge truly. Thanks for sharing. I will have to try this Weber California speaker with the aluminum cap. I take it that the improvement you hear / feel over the blackshadow is not subtle.
Best
Stephen
Best
Stephen
pmtrub
Well-known member
BobL said:
Thanks. I may be trying out a couple of these soon. Thanks for sharing all of your research.
pine said:
Has anyone else had the same experience as Pine?? I hope anyone who has followed this thread and purchased the Weber California is happy with the tone. If you are not I apologize for steering anyone in the wrong direction, as that is not my intent.
A slight topic swerve. If you want a real thrill you might try GT 6L6 GE's for power tubes. #'s 5-7 work very well and when used with a JBL or weber clone D120 (California ceramic 8ohm) they tend to add a very airy chimey 3 dimensional quality to the sound of the Lonestar. But just a word of caution, I have been through two (2) matched quad sets in less than 10 months. Both sets have had one (1) tube fail, in which case I pull and replace the entire set.
Once again though, please let me know how you feel about the tone of the JBL or Weber California. I think it important to know if your happy, but more important to know if the speaker didn't work out, and for what reasons.
Have fun and change your strings often,
Bob L.
Another plug for the California here. I just got mine and installed them on Saturday in time for rehearsal yesterday. As pine said, they are everything you said they are, BobL. Nice warm tone, cleans are beautiful, and as pine noticed, less gain is necessary than with the stock speakers. I have a friend's pair of old JBLs to compare with, and I noticed that the Webers have slightly less midrange, and that upper-end 'tonk' that JBLs are known for isn't as pronounced (I like that quality of JBLs, but I like the relative subtlety of the Webers better -- that sound doesn't always work for everything). Volume seems more manageable with the Webers than with the C90s, too. I play a '52 RI Telecaster, and the LSC sounds absolutely perfect with it now. In short, they're staying.
Thanks, BobL, for posting this thread and letting us take advantage of all your hard work. :mrgreen:
Thanks, BobL, for posting this thread and letting us take advantage of all your hard work. :mrgreen:
zm4
Active member
Hi, Im new to this forum and just bought a LSS head and cab. I have been using a 64' Bandmaster that I put a set of altec 417-H's in and the result was austounding. Very punchy and yet bright, much more full sounding than the stock speakers. From what Im told the weber califorias are alot like or even based on the 417-H and JBL. Is that true? What my question is can you elaborate on the EV SRO in the lonestar? At 103 db it is a very efficent speaker is that good or bad in a lower wattage amp? I have two factory SRO's and would like to use one with the LSS, If the stock one is lacking.
Zack
Zack
Awesome thread!! Im gonna revisit this thread with a question I didnt see the answer to.
How does the Weber California sound on the Drive channel (Channel 2 with drive engaged). I spoke with the guy from Weber today and he said If your using any type of overdrive, including the amps own overdrive, then this speaker wouldnt be your choice, rather the Chicago would be a better choice. He likened an over driven California to putting an overdrive pedal thru a PA system. Please tell me your experience. Thanks.
How does the Weber California sound on the Drive channel (Channel 2 with drive engaged). I spoke with the guy from Weber today and he said If your using any type of overdrive, including the amps own overdrive, then this speaker wouldnt be your choice, rather the Chicago would be a better choice. He likened an over driven California to putting an overdrive pedal thru a PA system. Please tell me your experience. Thanks.
Heritage Softail
Well-known member
BobL said:
Bob,
Great speaker tone thread. I am hunting high and low for a great, no excellent speaker for an SLO. Late 80's thru 90's rock/metal is the tone. The enclosure I think would be best is a pair of 12 Thieles made by a private party to original Thiele specs. I was thinking of how it would be great to carry only two 1x12 cabs for a change. Largest venue will be the size of a school auditoruim - 500 seats. Smallest will be a 50 seat bar. Fairly stout PA available. Will run mono most of the time. Once in a while will go stereo with one 100W head per cab. Will rotate MKV/SLO/Knucklehead Tre heads.
Great effects rundown as well. Curious, what are your favorite guitars? Have you heard or played any Heritage LP's or 335 types?
axman53
Well-known member
Hey, BobL, or anyone, any comment as to how or if your findings relate to the LSS? I am wanting to replace the original speaker in mine and so far the best recommendations I've had all point to the Celestion Gold. I had a Weber Blue Dog ceramic in my old Peavey Classic 30 and it was wonderful. Now Weber has the California AND the Chicago. So it's getting harder to make a decision. I do like great clean tones, I use the 5W setting almost exclusively, use pedals to push channel 2 toward various distorted tones and mic the amp, so I don't think I'm getting any distortion from the speaker. Thanks for any observations.
Telecastermaster
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BobL,
Any chance you have some sound clips of your setup? I would love to hear that Weber California in it... Very curious.
Also, thanks for posting this, tons of great info!
Any chance you have some sound clips of your setup? I would love to hear that Weber California in it... Very curious.
Also, thanks for posting this, tons of great info!
Sorry to revive an old thread but I'm curious if anyone else has tried the California or blue dog in their LSC.
I'm going to convert my 2x12 into a head and a vertical open back cab and am having a tough time choosing a speaker. I'm worried the California is going to be a little bright for me... As I like to run the amp at the edge of breakup. The blue dog is grabbing me more than the California.
But I've also considered things like the celestion v type, scumback m75s, and a couple Alnico flavors.
Anyone else with input on speaker changes with their LSC?
I'm going to convert my 2x12 into a head and a vertical open back cab and am having a tough time choosing a speaker. I'm worried the California is going to be a little bright for me... As I like to run the amp at the edge of breakup. The blue dog is grabbing me more than the California.
But I've also considered things like the celestion v type, scumback m75s, and a couple Alnico flavors.
Anyone else with input on speaker changes with their LSC?
I have not tried the California or blue dog. However, I've run my LSC through Greenbacks, Creambacks, Alnico Cream, V-Types, A-Types, Vintage 30s, Greenbacks, Cannabis Rex, various Jensens, and liked 'em all better than the stock Black Shadow (which honestly didn't sound bad. In other words, I have a hard time imagining you running it through a decent speaker and it not sounding good (just be sure to check your power rating ;-) )Guizan said:
I currently have two cabs that I couldn't be happier with:
2x12" open back with H-75 Creamback/Alnico Cream
4x12" closed back with a mix of M-65/H-75 Creambacks
plan-x
Well-known member
The Blue Dog is ok. I mix the dog with the C-90 for a great blend.
Pongo said:
Thanks for the info! That's quite the collection you have.
I recently ran it into an open back 1x12 with a V-type, and definitely think it's an improvement. I'm not sure if it's the cabinet it's self or the speaker that's making the bigger difference, however.
I also tried it through a Marshall 4x12 with two m65 creambacks and 2 gt75s and this was even better. It had a much tighter bass response and great mids.
My plan is to get a 2x12 and try it with some scumbacks... A mix of m65/j75.
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