The next Mark - what would we need?

[Ulf2]

Hello everyone,
I am new to the section of this forum.

Since I had the privilege to often use a Mark V and currently have a JP-2C here for a few weeks, I wanted to share my thoughts ...
not tonewise but featurewise:

What do you think the next Mark-serie flagship would need?

1. A drawback in the Mark V for me as a high gain player is that I can't use two high gain channels (IIC+ and Extreme). The JP-2C can do that easily and it makes sense. On the other hand: The Mark V ist just more flexible and has more clean voicings. Tough descision.
2. While I can understand the Mark V can't switch the voicings per channel remotely, I never understood why there is no MIDI onboard. Again, the JP-2C delivers.
3. Give me a deep control for the power amp. Most MB power amps have at least a deep and/or modern voice.
4. Would a second graphic EQ be better than the preset EQ controls?
5. It might be a good idea to use the JP-2C transformer in a "Mark VI", wouldn't it?

I am curious to hear your thoughts. Personally, a Mark V melted with a JP-2C would be just a burning hot product.
It could even be a 3U preamp if you ask me. Get a 2:90 if you want Simul Class.

 

[Gizzorge]

The next Mark will and should have a lot from the JP2C:
Midi
Dual EQ
Cab Clone

 

[Ulf2]

The next Mark will and should have a lot from the JP2C:
Midi
Dual EQ
Cab Clone

I agree with the Cab Clone. I wouldn't have a problem with the head being wider. The small chassis tend to get pretty hot anyway.

 

[Dreamtheaterrules]

I know the OP says "flagship" but I the small versions are now so wildly popular, that I woudn't be surprised to see a 3 channel 25 or 35 watt Mark.

Imagine a V25+ with three channels, and the Tweed, and Mark 1 Modes added.... I'm drooling already.

 

[Ulf2]

I know the OP says "flagship" but I the small versions are now so wildly popular, that I woudn't be surprised to see a 3 channel 25 or 35 watt Mark.

Imagine a V25+ with three channels, and the Tweed, and Mark 1 Modes added.... I'm drooling already.

Or a fine preamp!

 

[Nicklotsaguitars]

I don't see where Mesa could go with a Six.
The JP2C is more of a sideways step than an innovation. Like if a 2C was made yesterday with added modern appointments. Rather than an innovative bit of tech. I love the way the Mk V can switch power valve class. I'm surprised the JP2C doesn't
What would Mesa do, add another channel? Been done.
Even more gain? Why? I use a shed load of gain and never get anywhere near the full potential of the amp. In fact I've resorted to using lower output pickups and dialling more gain on the amp to get better attack.
Built in DSP? No thanks and it;s been done already.
What different flavours could you ask for? About the only one I can't quite get properly is single ended British sounding. Close but not quite right. It's a sound of limited use anyway.
I wouldn't want Mesa to do a better job of the Brit sound than the Edge and Crunch channels of the 90watt. I think they're incredible.
Recto power stage? Only if it's switchable.

 

[Ulf2]

Personally, I think, the JP-2C offers a couple of nice things, a theoretical Mark VI could benefit from:
A-D do not increase versaitility but would make it a more useful amp for performances.
a. a bigger transformer
b. a second assignable graphic EQ
c. MIDI
d. being able to use the IIC+ sound in channel 2

I believe that is a lot.
I could add the features:
a.Shred
b. Pull Presence

 

[Nicklotsaguitars]

The bigger power transformer is only a corksniffer thing. Nothing there that is size dependant. Like capacitors, we'll see transformers get smaller as manufacturing technology evolves.
I really doubt it makes much appreciable difference. If there was anything in it, Mesa would have sourced a replacement for the original a long time before now.

 

[Ulf2]

I am not so sure.
A large good transformer has never proved to be a wrong choice.
It might be simple marketing but I read that often, plus most real good amps feature big transformers from VHT to Diezel to Fortin, especially when you also want a tight sound with low tunings.

I am not enough of a tech guy to judge if technology has improved in this area. I was under the impression that a big transformer is still the same as it was years ago. Valves haven't changed, so the basic recipe to create a great tube amp is still the same.
Take also into account that the original transformer in the IIC+ might have been expensive and a different choice was made to save costs.

 

[Nicklotsaguitars]

Trust me on this. Mesa went with that transformer because it was vintage correct. Not because it performs better.
It's the power transformer. It does one thing. It takes in 110-240v from the wall and splits it to something like


HV Red
Bias Blue
0V Green/Yellow
HV Red

3,15V Green
0V Green/Yellow
3,15V Green

5V Yellow/Yellow
12V Brown,Brown

That I lifted from the TAD site. Specs for the Mark V. I remember the same talk going on about the JVM/800/KK transformers. It turned out they were exactly the same. Just different bell housings.
I'd be very interested to see what the power delivered from a 2C's transformer is.

 

[Ulf2]

Well, at least, it seems sure that different transformers result in different sounding/feeling amps.
You maybe right that the IIC+ transformer would be no improvement for the Mark V.

So I'll drop my list to
b. a second assignable graphic EQ
c. MIDI
d. being able to use the IIC+ sound in channel 2

I believe that is a lot.
I could add the features:
a.Shred
b. Pull Presence

 

[Icarusuki]

For me, the biggest additional would be an additional channel. I would love a Mark series amp with 4 channels. I've been through two Mark Vs, two TriAxis, three Roadsters and have settled on a JP-2C (Which is GREAT!)

I only went to the Roadster so many times, because I really, REALLY, wanted the four channels to work. I also liked the duplication in the Channels, two clean/gritty-capable channels and two mid/High gain channels. I'm a big fan of versatility.

In a Mark series, I would lay them out thusly:

Channel 1 Modes:
JP-2C Clean / Fat / Tweed

Channel 2 Modes:
Fat / Tweed / Crunch (Or Edge or Brit or something new)

Channel 3 Modes:
Crunch / Mark IIC+ / Mark IV

Channel 4 Modes:
Mark IIC+ / Mark IV / Extreme (or some new High Gain mode)

I would port over dual EQs, Shred, MIDI, Cab Clone, from the JP-2C... and I would add a per channel adjustable noise gate. It would be spectacular to be able to plug directly into a high gain amp, with needing any other gear.

The JP-2C is very close, but I do still want a clean/gritty channel in there as well. I'll just need to find the right OD pedal, methinks. I'm just not a fan of pedals.



~Icarus

 

[Ulf2]

Good point. A four channel Mark would be a dream.
I would go for a different selection of modes, but I generally agree.
Four channels is better than three for me.
For me it is: Clean, Crunch, and two high gain channels may it be for fast and slower, fatter tracks or for rhythm and lead work.

 

[Gizzorge]

In reality, the Mark V really needs nothing!! It is still the king!!! Long may it reign!! Hail and Kill!!!

 

[Icarusuki]

In reality, the Mark V really needs nothing!! It is still the king!!! Long may it reign!! Hail and Kill!!!

True, true; but we're talking about the Mark VI :mrgreen:

When I traipsed down the dark path that is the Marshall JVM410, there were two features that were very well done:

The built-in noise gate and the ability to use their Cab Clone-like feature without taking the amp out of Standby. You could even use the pre-amp via the FX loop Send while in standby.

This was useful because I was silly and used the pre-amp sections of the JVM, Roadster and TriAxis into a 2:90 as part of big MIDI-controlled monstrosity. Going forward it would be useful using the new Mark amp with something like an Axe FX via the 4CM or just the preamp section in the Axe FX loop.


~Icarus

 

[Ulf2]

I agree, I love the ability of the JVM410 to be used as a preamp without switching the amp really on. Every amp should have that.
As far as a Noise Gate goes: Yes, I would second that. An amp manufacturer like MB might be too proud to use such a circuit in their amps, but in fact they can build it best: Track the input signal, shut down before the power amp.

Well, shall I mention that the JVM410 has a comparable structure with multiple channels (4 not 3) and modes per channel which is fully MIDI compatible down to each mode. Featurewise it is a monster. Soundwise... well, it is not a Mark.

 

[barryswanson]

Crunch with more gain would be nice. That mode has a lot of girth, a favourite of mine.

 

[Gizzorge]

Crunch with more gain would be nice. That mode has a lot of girth, a favourite of mine.

Crunch has been my least used mode. I am in 'Edge' 99% of time on Chan 2. It's my classic rock tome.

I need to explore Crunch a little more. It seems like the IIC+ setting with some hair taken off.....

 

[barryswanson]

I need to explore Crunch a little more. It seems like the IIC+ setting with some hair taken off.....

Thats it is, but it has some balls about it.

I'm the opposite I have hardly used Edge it sounds very harsh to me. Maybe I'll spend some more time with it today.

 

[Icarusuki]

Well, shall I mention that the JVM410 has a comparable structure with multiple channels (4 not 3) and modes per channel which is fully MIDI compatible down to each mode. Featurewise it is a monster. Soundwise... well, it is not a Mark.

I'd never been a fan of Marshall, but though I should own one, due to their legacy. The JVM was the best sounding Marshall I'd ever heard and its featureset is impressive. I just couldn't get it to sound the way I wanted it to sound. SUPER noisy; and, in the end, not a Mark.

I've never made friends with Edge mode, and only recently discovered Crunch (I, too, would like a little more gain in Crunch). When I got my first Mark V, Channel 2 was no go. There was nothing there for me. I loved Channel 1 and 3, but wanted to be able to use a clean channel and a tweed or switch between MrkIIC+ mode and MrkIV mode. Having a channel I didn't want to use and only being able to use two of the four mode I really liked made me send the Mark V down the road. On my second Mark V, I've come around on Crunch mode, and now can happily use all three Channels.