The Great Tube Mystery

[seymourstiletto]

Are the tubes really that bad in mesa boogies or are people over exaggerating? i've heard that quite a bit in these forums and i've started to wonder if i am really cheating myself by not getting some different tubes .How much difference is changing tubes going to make ? Will it void my warranty if there not boogie tubes ? How many of you have changed your tubes and are happier with your tone now ?

 

[ibanez4life SZ!]

Swapping tubes opens up a whole new worry and plethora of choices. Most of the time, the changes are VERY small. Most can't even tell.

I've been there. Wasted a bunch of money on different tubes. In the end, it was the same amp.

As of now, I concentrate on my playing. I find I'm much happier that way, and my tone is always good!

It's a Boogie....they were designed around the Mesa tubes. That is something to consider!

 

[srf399]

My Stiletto sounds very different with different preamp tubes... Less difference with power tubes. My MKIV sounded the pretty much the same no matter what I put in it.

 

[srf399]

An EQ in the loop will do more than tubes I think

 

[plan-x]

When I switched out my 1st quad on my LSC,(due to a power tube blow out on the orignal set) I got a new quad from mesa that sounded less bubbly and less dynamic. So I got some JJ's (quad & pre amp) and got my sound back, plus some! I was disappointed in that mesa quad and it cost more than the JJ's. Just simple economics the way I figure.

 

[dodger916]

It's a matter of personal preference. Like most folks here have noted, pre-amp tubes can make a greater difference than power tubes. I've been experimenting with NOS pre-amp tubes in my IIC+, and I think the sound has improved over the stock Mesa pre-amps.

Swapping 6L6s and EL34/6CA7s in the Class A sockets of Simul-class amps also makes a big difference. I prefer 6L6s over EL34s, but I just installed a duet of NOS 6CA7s in place of the 6L6s...small but noticeable improvement. It combines the smoothness of the EL34s with the crisp articulation of the 6L6s.

You can pick up some decent NOS pre-amp tubes on eBay for around $30 +/- shipping. Make sure you learn what the numbers mean in the listings!

 

[Silverwulf]

The stock tubes that Mesa rebrands are not bad at all. People exaggerate online about the differences. That being said, the right tubes will make a difference in your tone. Preamp tubes will make a bigger difference than power amp tubes, but the right power amp tubes could have a dramatic effect too.

The trick is to find the right mix of preamp/power amp tubes that compliment your gear and playing style to acheive the sound you want. The right mix of tubes that compliment my gear may not work as well for the next guy. Always keep the big picture in mind when choosing tubes and how the end result will sound. A particular set of "Preamp Tubes A" may sound perfect in collaboration with "Power Tubes X," but mixed with "Power Tubes Y" in your amp instead...it may yield less than desirable results. On the same hand, maybe "Power Tubes Y" would sound great if you paired them up with "Preamp Tubes B" instead of "A."

Always keep the big picture in mind when choosing tubes. Do not choose tubes based on their individual characteristics. Choose them for how they sound in conjunction with your amp, cab/speakers, playing style, other tubes, etc.

 

[JW123]

I guess I will be the odd man out on here.

Ive been playing for a long time, I have a big box of old preamp tubes that Ive collected. Ive changed them around til Im blue in the face and I dont really hear the huge differences that people seem to notice on here. The biggest change in tone I got from my Triple was when I put a quartet of Yellowjackets with EL84s in it. That made a big difference in sound to me.

As far as preamps go, the only thing I hear change is the gain structure and I just tend to adjust the gain to suit my needs. I think all of us are chasing some magical tone we hear in our heads. Its good to play with tubes some and to understand the relationship they have in the amp, but I think alot of people just change tubes cause everyone talks about it all the time. In my case no matter what tubes I put in I still wind up with the same basic sound, it just may mean more tweaking. On the other hand it is good to have a spare set of tubes with you at all times and a fuse, just in case.

 

[R_ADKINS80]

I will disagree that tube changes mean little. I have a Mesa Russian 2 preamp tube (mesa says it's a rebranded EH). I was using it in V1.....I tried another EH branded 12AX7.....sounded TOTALLY different. Same goes with power tubes. My EH EL34's sound way different than the Mesa branded EL34's I bought with my amp.

My buddy has a 2000ish Triple rec and he has Chinese Mesa Tubes in V1 and V2 with russians in the rest and his head sounds awesome....my Mesa came with 4 Chinese and 1 Russian2 and it sounded like ***.....did some switching around with a few more Russian tubes and set it up like his....still bad. My head didn't sound right until I got rid of every last Mesa tube in it. Older production heads may have had good tubes but my brand new one sounded like utter garbage...(which I knew was gunna happen and I bugeted for all new tubes when I got the head)

 

[jab]

I switched out the Ace tubes to the 450's Mesa sells, and put in the Doug's preamp set. I'd say the power tubes improved the sound 10%, the preamp tubes another 10%. Noticeable but probably not something where someone in the audience is going to say "hey, sounds like you swapped out your tubes!". I recommend it though for the little improvement in sound and the security of knowing you've got spares. When you drop $1-2k on an amp you might as well explore that final 20% of your tone for $100-200.

 

[ANIMATED SUSPENSION]

Different is not always the same as better unfortunately! With GT and M/B tubes you are paying for consistency. If you buy EH or JJ tubes (pre and power) that are straight from the factory they will vary in performance by miles. You may be lucky and get a low noise high gain 12ax7 with uniform triodes, but then again you may not. And depending on the performance of these potentially wildly different triodes in the pre amp tubes, and where you fit them will make quite a difference. V1 needs to be low noise but it doesn't have the biggest effect on tone in a cascading gain amp. Check out the 'Tube task' chart in your user manual. The current M/B tubes are as good as anything on the market. Other brands will be slightly different in tone/gain, which may or may not be to your personal taste. :wink:

 

[dodger916]

I will disagree that tube changes mean little.

Me too. The degree of change may differ depending on the amp, the tubes being replaced, and your personal tastes. I know when I got my IIC+ I wasn't overly impressed. After a couple of weeks of fiddling with NOS tubes, I now understand all the fuss about the C+....again, to my ear. YMMV!

When you drop $1-2k on an amp you might as well explore that final 20% of your tone for $100-200.

It worked for me...

 

[edward]

Mesa tubes are NOT bad. But there are better ones out there, both current-production tubes and (even better) NOS tubes. Should you buy the better ones that are not Mesa? Not as a rule, no.

The point of swapping tubes is that they alter your tone. "Alter" means change, not "improve." Simply because that change may be one you welcome or loath. You experiement with tube swaps to experiment with tone, NOT unlike trying out a new pedal, or even different brands of strings. Diff brand tubes, current-prod vs NOS, and different tube families ALL will alter the voice of your amp, which is an instrument in itself. To suggest all tubes make little difference or that Mesa amps were "designed" for their tubes is a vast oversimplification that ignores the myriad variables which all come together to produce tone, good or bad.

Bottom line is there is no clean answer to this except to say that diff tubes will change your amp's tone and dynamics, and diff tubes will do this subtly or drastically. The best thing you can do is identify what you'd "like" to hear that's different in your amp's tone and ask others who are tube savvy (AND your Boogie specific savvy) and get their advice ...otherwise you are just going to be changing tubes haphazardly which can only bring about more confusion (or make you think there's no difference at all).

Edward

 

[ANIMATED SUSPENSION]

I will disagree that tube changes mean little.

Me too. The degree of change may differ depending on the amp, the tubes being replaced, and your personal tastes. I know when I got my IIC+ I wasn't overly impressed. After a couple of weeks of fiddling with NOS tubes, I now understand all the fuss about the C+....again, to my ear. YMMV!

When you drop $1-2k on an amp you might as well explore that final 20% of your tone for $100-200.

It worked for me...

I didn't say that EVER, you've misquoted me !!!!???

 

[Juancito12]

Yeah agree with others that the change in when installing new tubes is subtle. My issue with the Mesa Output tubes is the noise. I found both the 6L6 and EL34's to be microphonic in my Rectoverb... maybe it was bad luck. Since I've found 6L6 Winged C's and installed adjustable bias in my amp I couldn't be happier.

 

[Murphy Slaw]

I like Mesa Tubes. I trust they have REALLY been tested, and never had a problem.

I'm big into nos tubes, and have a few :wink: but just keep on using what sounds good to me.

I like buying a tube that's been bonked with a hammer.

Saves me a lot of time.

Murph.

 

[Duece2]

Are the tubes really that bad in mesa boogies or are people over exaggerating? i've heard that quite a bit in these forums and i've started to wonder if i am really cheating myself by not getting some different tubes .How much difference is changing tubes going to make ? Will it void my warranty if there not boogie tubes ? How many of you have changed your tubes and are happier with your tone now ?

I talked to the guy at Mesa Boogie and he said it will void the warranty if the amp is fried due to non mesa tubes. He did say Groove tubes are the only ones they consider to still cover under warranty due to their rating system. I swapped tubes per Dougs suggestions and couldn't be happier.

 

[MesaDCLP]

Groove tubes are the only ones they consider to still cover under warranty due to their rating system.

I wonder if this is because Mesa considers GT's rating system as superior to their own, or if GT meets their minimum requirements and is good enough.

 

[fishyfishfish]

Changing the Type of tube will give you the most tonal difference. To me it's like changing strings on a acoustic guitar. Sometimes only you will notice the difference, sometimes another player might notice, the audience will almost never know the difference, so I guess it is up to the player to decide.

 

[Juancito12]

I talked to the guy at Mesa Boogie and he said it will void the warranty if the amp is fried due to non mesa tubes.

Wow... talk about fear mongering... There are other ways to sell your tubes. I like Mesa amps but don't like that they try to scare people. Plus, that whole story in my manual about Mesa's being fixed bias because bias pots can vibrate out of position just doesn't hold up to reason.