The function of the master channel volume control on Recto

The Boogie Board

Help Support The Boogie Board:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Forget what the manual says - if you want more gain, turn it up, that will make far more difference than changing tubes. Try the easy solutions first - the controls are there to be used. If turning the gain up full doesn't sound good, adjust the other things until it does - this is a tube amp, not a modeler... everything affects everything else. Try *all* the combinations of modes, gain and volume and listen carefully to what they all do. There's no setting that will harm the amp. (Other than switching to EL34 bias with 6L6 tubes in, don't do that.) If you do all that and you still can't get it to sound how you want, different tubes, attenuators or anything else will probably not get you there. A good pedal might, though. And if *that* doesn't work, you do need a different amp.
 
Definitely try the gain and/or treble controls cranked up. The stock preamp valves are considered fairly high gain as it is. IME, changing to a "higher" gain preamp valve only yields an increase in gain by just a hair. YMMV...
 
b0nkersx said:
Not a lot.

Seriously dude, if it doesn't have enough gain for you and you don't want to boost it, get another amp. This is the only realistic advice anyone can give you.

This.

Like 94TOV said, turn the freaking gain up. The manual is there for information and advice, not a rule book.
 
I have a Maxon 0D808 overdrive pedal, so I suppose i could use that :lol:, but anyway, would I cause any damage to my amp if I choose to run the 6l6 tubes in el34 bias mode?
 
It depends on what type of tubes you're using. Some people get away with running Mesa branded (or Mesa graded) 6L6s in the EL34 mode with no problems. If you're using a set of 6L6s that are graded for higher current draw, then you could possibly cause damage.

Unless you know what you're doing and have a means of measuring tube current draw, I highly recommend against it.
 
mikey383 said:
Unless you know what you're doing and have a means of measuring tube current draw, I highly recommend against it.

It won't do anything you want it to anyway.
 
I would strongly recommend not doing unless you can measure tube current too. Given by the sound I think you're aiming for, it probably would do the opposite of what you want anyway - running the tubes much hotter (which is what this will do) will make the amp sound more like it's cranked up further... which is why those of us who like the sound of our amps cranked up, often mod the amp for variable bias or use the EL34 mode to make the 6L6s run hot!

But in fact, *actually* running EL34s (in the EL34 setting of course) may help. It's not a huge difference - it *won't* fundamentally change the sound of the amp or the amount of gain, and it certainly won't make it sound just like a Marshall - but it will tighten up the bottom end a little and add more top end crunch and harmonics. The problem is that you have to spring for a full set of EL34s without knowing if it will do enough or not. But at least you can keep one or the other set of tubes if you then change the amp for something else :).

I would still do that *after* fully evaluating all the modes and settings with the 6L6s.

And first of all, why not try the overdrive pedal if you've got it?! A TS-type overdrive increases the gain, boosts the mids, cuts the bass and tightens up the sound... which sounds exactly like what you want. *It's not wrong to use pedals.*
 
bermuda_ said:
I've got celestion vintage 30 speakers in my Mesa Oversized 4x12 Recto Cabinet, so that probably would explain why my amp sounds so muddy when I crank the volume up higher on it.

So how do the celestion greenbacks speakers sound in your 4x12 cabinet, Do they also sound muddy when you crank the volume of the amp up louder?



V30's are fine. You got one of the best cabs available for the recto. For me Gbacks sound the best, but i'd dial in my tone on your cab too if i had to.
Just tweak at the level you're going to play.

I don't understand not geting enough gain either... I wonder what you're looking for? Maybe look into fuzzpedals?
 
fluff191 said:
What about getting a THD Hotplate or something of that nature?

He likes the super saturated preamp gain, and doesn't like muddiness. Blasting the amp through an attenuator wouldn't help because he says he can only get the super saturation with the volume at 0.
 
pgrudge said:
I don't understand not getting enough gain either... I wonder what you're looking for? Maybe look into fuzzpedals?

That's my thought. Or (in all seriousness) a Line 6 combo that has the "insane" channel? It just really sounds like he is going for something in the opposite direction of what his amp actually does. Just my opinion.

Cause at such a quiet volume the speakers of tubes for that matter aren't really doing much at all.
 
Just for the record guys, I enjoy playing a lot of modern metal on the Recto, a few examples would be Killswitch Engage, Shadows fall, Lamb of god, God Forbid.

So I take it that without boosting my amp, the amps circuit simply hasn't got enough usable gain on it, to be able to play this type of music :eek:

Also guys! check out this clip of a guy I found playing his Recto on youtube, by looking at this clip it should give you a little insight into what type of sound I want to achieve from the Recto.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ak3NlKEkOk

You see, the thing that I personally find amazing about this guys Recto, is that even without using the overdrive pedal, the gain coming from the amp still sounds powerful enough for playing metal on?
 
bermuda_ said:
Just for the record guys, I enjoy playing a lot of modern metal on the Recto, a few examples would be Killswitch Engage, Shadows fall, Lamb of god, God Forbid.

So I take it that without boosting my amp, the amps circuit simply hasn't got enough usable gain on it, to be able to play this type of music :eek:

Also guys! check out this clip of a guy I found playing his Recto on youtube, by looking at this clip it should give you a little insight into what type of sound I want to achieve from the Recto.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ak3NlKEkOk

You see, the thing that I personally find amazing about this guys Recto, is that even without using the overdrive pedal, the gain coming from the amp still sounds powerful enough for playing metal on?

So are you saying you CAN get a tone similar to the guy in the video, but only at/near zero volume?

If so, it might just be time to take the amp to a tech. You should be able to sound way better than what that guy is running with your amp. And at higher-than-zero volume to boot.
 
Yep, that's exactly what I meant, It seems that with my amp, that I can only get a good amount of distortion, when the volume on the amp is at zero, when I crank the volume higher the gain on the amp decreases, resulting in the amp sounding like a blanket has been put over it.

So guys do you think, there could be something wrong with my amp?
 
Probably not. There is normally a drastic shift in tone when you go from zero volume with some signal leaking through, to real signal - the difference is that most players like the loud sound and hate the quiet one.

No offense intended, but can I ask if this is your first tube amp (or at least first good one), and if so, did you play a modeling amp before?
 
I doubt there's anything wrong. That guy isn't running a lot of gain on the amplifier. It seems like you're used to having a lot more gain.

Also, people don't use boosts for more gain. They use it just to tighten the amp and change its character a tiny bit. A Maxon OD808 doesn't have much gain boost at all.

Why don't you post a clip of you playing some power chords with the gain around 12-2 o'clock and the volume up a bit? That way we would be able to tell you for sure if it sounds like your amp is weak.
 
Right, I'll post some clips of me playing my amp as soon as Possible and yeah this is actually my first tube amp I have ever bought, I used to play through a Marshall MG 30 DX solid state amp :oops:, but thankfully I sold it not to long ago :lol:, it was possible one of the worst amps I have ever had the misfortune of playing, everything about that amp was just garbage :lol:

So with that being said, switching from a solid state amp over to a tube amp, was a very unusual experience for me, but the main reason why I bought a Recto, is because I love the whole Mesa tone, also I'm a huge metal head, so I figured this would be the ideal amp for me :twisted:
 
It might still be... you just need to get familiar with how different tube amps are from solid state and modelers! I was at least close :).

The reason I asked the question is because modelers, and to a large extent modern solid state amps like the MG series, work in a very different sort of way that's more like what you seemed to be expecting and maybe even wanting from your Mesa - they create an idealized snapshot of a sound, and the controls usually work in predictable ways and don't interact much... basically you get one sound and the volume and EQ controls do the same thing whatever the volume, they just make it louder/quieter, more or less bass/treble/mid etc, but without actually changing the underlying sound itself. They're also inherently much more uniform in dynamics, more like a recording of a guitar tone than the tone itself - which is why they tend not to work very well in a loud band, because they don't have the same dynamics as a tube amp. These things are why they're actually *good* for some purposes - eg ultra-low-volume practice, or home recording where you might not have the range of outboard tools that a pro studio does, and in fact it can often be hard to get a tube amp to work well for these things. (So they're not always just junk, either.)

A higher-gain tube amp is a fairly raw, interactive and sometimes plain awkward thing to get to sound right, because altering one thing (eg gain or volume) even slightly usually makes the rest of it behave in a different way, and you can spend ages chasing you tail - as it sounds like you might be - if you haven't got familiar with exactly how each thing affects the others. Mesa amps are actually notorious for this, which is one reason why a lot of players hate them, although I think it applies much more to the Mark series than the Rectifiers - and I'll happily admit I could never quite dial in a Mark how I wanted. Even the Rectifier has so many options that you may find that you end up in a place where you can't get where you're going - which is why I suggested trying all the different modes, even if you think at first they may not be taking you in the right direction... don't just flip the switch and decide you don't like it without experimenting with the full range of what the knobs then do, as it will be slightly different. The controls actually change the sound itself, not just alter it afterwards.

And it *is* all worth it, because if you get it to the point it all just clicks, a good tube amp will sound so much more expressive and toneful than a solid-state amp ever can. Once you get it, you'll probably never want to go back.

It's also definitely worth trying the overdrive pedal - as someone else said in another thread, it's not really to add a lot more gain (although it can do too), it's more to tighten up the sound. It's *not* wrong to use a cheap pedal with an expensive tube amp, no matter what a lot of snobs will tell you - you can often get better sounds that way, and you'd maybe be surprised by the number of great players and classic recordings that rely on the pedal as much as the amp.

Hang in there! Start with really working the amp controls, then the pedal, then maybe different tubes, possibly even different speakers, a different pedal, or an attenuator, or even a different amp. (But try not to spend major money without having a good idea of what you need to be different, and why.) Most of us spent years or even decades learning exactly what it is that works best for us, and it can be a constant search... but not pointless. There is a reason the vast majority of experienced players still prefer tube amps after all this time and with all the difficulties they can cause. But equally, if you really do find you get the sound you want from a good solid-state amp, that's not wrong either.
 
Thanks for all the advice, I'll take everything you told me into consideration,

Also since the amp is far to loud to get for practicing with at home I'm highly considering purchases some THD Yellow Jackets for my amp, as a way of getting earlier amp break at lower volumes, so that I won't have to worry about going deaf when I'm playing the amp :lol:

What do you think guys, are the Yellow jackets worth buying?
 
bermuda_ said:
Thanks for all the advice, I'll take everything you told me into consideration,

Also since the amp is far to loud to get for practicing with at home I'm highly considering purchases some THD Yellow Jackets for my amp, as a way of getting earlier amp break at lower volumes, so that I won't have to worry about going deaf when I'm playing the amp :lol:

What do you think guys, are the Yellow jackets worth buying?

No. Power tube breakup is not what you want. Also, if you can't crank a 100W amp in your house, you likely won't be able to crank even a 20W amp in your house. That's something you'll really just have to live with.
 
Back
Top