The first Rectifier with Raw Mode was the Tremoverb

[danielpasco]

I came to this conclusion several months ago, but I don't think I ever shared it. I realized that, both in terms of documentation and sonic characteristics, Raw Mode on my Multiwatt Dual Rectifier and my Road King II is a drop-in replacement for Blues Mode on the Tremoverb.

I hadn't really paid much attention to Blues More OR Raw until I saw a Rig Rundown with Kim Thayil, who was using Blues Mode on his own Tremoverb along with an Electra Dyne.

I thought it sounded pretty great and decided to start using it, but I've often wondered which of the Tremoverb sounds I could accurately reproduce with my other gear. At some point, I started delving into the Raw Mode documentation, compared it to the Blues Mode notes, and then started A/Bing them.

I'm convinced about it, but if there are differing opinions I'd love to hear them.

 

[IndoShane]

I came to this conclusion several months ago, but I don't think I ever shared it. I realized that, both in terms of documentation and sonic characteristics, Raw Mode on my Multiwatt Dual Rectifier and my Road King II is a drop-in replacement for Blues Mode on the Tremoverb.

I hadn't really paid much attention to Blues More OR Raw until I saw a Rig Rundown with Kim Thayil, who was using Blues Mode on his own Tremoverb along with an Electra Dyne.

I thought it sounded pretty great and decided to start using it, but I've often wondered which of the Tremoverb sounds I could accurately reproduce with my other gear. At some point, I started delving into the Raw Mode documentation, compared it to the Blues Mode notes, and then started A/Bing them.

I'm convinced about it, but if there are differing opinions I'd love to hear them.

Hi, long time lurker, first time poster so take everything with a grain of salt. I’ve had a Tremoverb and a series 2 rectoverb and to me the raw mode on the rectoverb sounded a bit more pleasing. I’ve found the tremoverb’s blues mode to be a little harsher and more stiff to play. I think it might be a negative feedback thing (and probably my own user error) that makes the blues mode and raw mode sound and feel different.
To my ears the raw mode is a gained down version of the vintage mode while the blues mode is a gained down version of the modern mode. I guess you can make the tremoverb sound like the raw mode by flipping channel two to vintage. Others might confirm or debunk this. I’ve never tried this though as I never really explored the blues mode.
Both amps are sold (still regretting this) so can’t test it.
I do think you might be on to something because as a blues player or any type of low gain player I would set up a Tremoverb with two vintage channels anyway, which would probably make blues mode sound more like raw mode.
It would make sense for Boogie to base raw mode of the vintage mode as it sounds way more pleasing to me than low gain modern.

Happy tone hunting and greetings from the Netherlands.
Ian

 

[FedWar]

Mmm, I'm not convinced about this.
Blues uses modern channel, i.e. no negative feedback.
Are you sure that the raw does the same?

 

[danielpasco]

Mmm, I'm not convinced about this.
Blues uses modern channel, i.e. no negative feedback.
Are you sure that the raw does the same?

I was pretty sure that the negative feedback is only removed for Modern on the Red Channel when the cloning mode is set to Normal or Orange To Modern, and for "Vintage" Mode in Orange To Modern.

Either way, I think it'd be easy to check by going into Blues or Clean mode and moving the channel cloning around. There should be a noticeable jump in volume going to Red Vintage to either of the other Clone settings if you're in Blues mode.

(I'll check that out)

The manual doesn't really say anything about negative feedback at all, unfortunately, although it does say to expect a volume jump switching from Blues to Modern in general.


I'll look into this more in any case. Part of the reason I posted my thoughts was in the hopes of having conversations just like this one, so thank you.

-Daniel

 

[JustPassingThrough]

This would be easy to prove by checking the respective schematics.

 

[Eevil]

https://warpedmusician.wordpress.co...-and-3-part-1-mesa-rectifier-design-concepts/

That link covers the Raw mode a bit

 

[rarebitusa]

https://warpedmusician.wordpress.co...-and-3-part-1-mesa-rectifier-design-concepts/

That link covers the Raw mode a bit

Oh nice link there

 

[danielpasco]

Sorry for the delay, I just got home a few minutes ago and went straight upstairs to the Tremoverb and did the test I described earlier:

Well. I may have misunderstood how this channel works.

There's no change in the Blues mode volume at all as you move around the channel cloning options, which is why I'd assumed that negative feedback was only being applied in Modern mode, when Red Vintage wasn't enabled.

But I also realized that the volume in Blues mode was pretty close to the same as when Modern mode was engaged (and not in Red Vintage mode).

Engaging Red Vintage causes the Modern mode to drop in volume both relative to itself and the volume in Blues mode.

So, yeah, it does sound like negative feedback is continuously engaged for the Red Channel, unless Red Vintage Mode is engaged and you switch to Modern mode.

This is fascinating

 

[danielpasco]

So I was able to revisit from time to time over the last few weeks and over this last weekend in depth and feel good about my original assertion. I was A/Bing Raw mode on my Mulitwatt Rectifier and Blues Mode on my Tremoverb using Silicon Diodes, Bold Power, and with the fx loops on both amps bypassed.

The sound was identical. Not close, it was absolutely the same.

Likewise, since they're been some questions about negative feedback on the red channel, I had a few more things that I'd tried that were useful context.

Channel cloning on the tremoverb (at least, on mine) does not impact the upper mode option on the Red or Orange channel, like, at all.

I saw another forum post where someone mentioned getting more headroom on an old two channel rectifier by switching to the clean channel, and then setting the amp to Orange to Modern.

This totally works on my 90s Reissue. It does not work on my Tremoverb. As I've mentioned before, the cloning mode doesn't have any impact on Blues Mode either.

I'm guessing that negative feedback isn't a part of the Blues mode sound. It certainly isn't part of Raw mode.

Anyway, I've convinced myself, at least, and I don't really have anything to prove. Just sharing my own experiences.

On thing that I can NOT replicate on any other amp is the Tremoverb's Red Vintage mode. I may start another thread about it because I really wish I could get it out of something else. it's insane.