sweeping generalizations

[th0rr]

Ok, so far on this board we have had some members with true issues with the amp that forced it to go back for repairs. Not making light of those with issues. I truely sympathize. But how many is this out of people with no issues at all? I guess what I am getting at is that the amp is obviously selling well, but other than this board I have not really come across any truely negative reviews or people with real issues.

I have googled for "Mark V amp issues" "Mark V tube issues" "Mark V blowing up tubes" etc... and other than this board I cannot find any.

I have found tons of posts in other forums discussing this amp and other than some folks stating that this amp is not their cup of tea, for whatever reasons, I cannot find any other forum where sweeping generalizations are made as to the Mesa build quality or company selling out.

Statements have been made to the effect that they know for sure that Mesa willingly put out an inferior product to pay for R&D costs. Any proof of that statement? That John Petrucci only plays modded Mark V's. Any proof of that statement as well? Especially since Mesa has gone on record that they do not mod any artist amps. Those are the most recent examples I remember off the top of my head. I hear a lot of comments being stated as fact but I do not see any proof. I am not challanging anyone or calling anyone a liar, merely would like to examine the proof and I mean real proof not more conjecture. Because if there is proof that Mesa is willingly putting out a high end amp's not ready for prime time then maybe that is an indication to take our dollars elsewhere.

Usually companys will try out some new features in lower end models before putting them in their highend models. That is what usually helps pay for R&D.

Others have found that they, for whatever reason, do not like the sound of the amp and then seem to go out of their way to find issues. Plastic shafted pots, PCB, leadless solder, or whatever reason they can find however irrelevant, if only to support their not liking the amp. I am not limiting this to only the Mark V or this forum. We have all seen this in relation to other amps in other forums. To those who do this we get it. You don't like it. Fucking move on.

Also I have heard others refer to this amp as "cheap" as in made cheaply. Over the years I have heard Mesa called many things but never cheap or fragile. Is it fair for these sweeping generalizations to be made due to some having issues or simply not liking the amp?

I mean take my example. I have a Mac Mini, or rather had. It freaking died after 1yr and 2wks. Just after the 1yr warranty, of course. I spent $800 bucks on it after upgrades and I am righteously pissed, this happened a couple of months ago but it still chaps my *** :evil: . But would it be fair for me to start slagging Mac's? Calling them cheap pieces of crap? Especially since some of my friends and co-workers have no issues with them? Nope. Just my spot of bad luck. That's all it is. No big conspiracies by the man to rob me of my money. Just plain old luck of the draw bad luck.

Now time to go and nurse my hangover. :wink:

 

[Shang Chi 66]

Excellent thread & post my friend!

I also would like would like some substantiation of said statements.

And th0rr said as nicely as he possibly could, that this is in no way calling anyone out, or anything of the sort. So please, let's keep this civil & cool gentlemen...

The only reason I,m saying it again, is that some other areas of this forum are starting to resemble HC alittle bit, and that's sad, and a shame...I had much hope that would'nt happen here.

However, this place is still full of good guys with good advice...

So...anybody?

 

[MesaGod666]

.....
Also I have heard others refer to this amp as "cheap" as in made cheaply. Over the years I have heard Mesa called many things but never cheap or fragile. Is it fair for these sweeping generalizations to be made due to some having issues or simply not liking the amp?

Yeah...no. This is the only part of your post that I severely disagree with otherwise it's a great post th0rr. I feel you when you talk about luck or karma or whatever but I know that I've been extremely specific when it comes to my REAL issues regarding the Mark V...and I will state them again just to be clear.

I am by no means a MESA hater. I have tens of thousands of dollars invested in MESA gear and all of which, for the most part, have served me well with little to no inconvenience beyond changing the tubes. I also own a MARK V, which I bought and waited months for (like everyone else). I also have legitimate build quality issues with my combo (tubes falling out of the sockets while in use, brand new tubes being eaten alive, hissing & popping, loose input jack right out of the box, etc.). The MARK V is the first piece of MESA gear that I have ever owned that has given me such trouble and these are issues that are currently being dealt with by MESA. MESA is being VERY helpful in rectifying this situation, however, MESA is also backlogged with other MARK V issues for the next 5 weeks (The Tech at MESA told me that himself...take that for what you will.). It is obvious to me that this amp, FOR SOME, is an albatross because of the quality issues. For others, it's just not the amp for them and they're pissed off for spending $2K to find that out (that's where you might get some random mudslinging and baseless claims). As for myself, it is merely a mild disappointment. Like everybody else, I feel that I should receive a near perfect product with no quality issues when I spend my hard earned cash ($2100 to be exact) on the newest top-of-the-line production model MARK V amp. When the techs sign off on this amp, I expect that they actually did their job in QA-ing it. It's an expectation that I have become accustomed to from decades of using MESA/BOOGIE products with little to no issues whatsoever. So, when I say it feels cheaply made...then IT FEELS TO ME THAT CORNERS WERE CUT AND IT'S CHEAPLY MADE IN COMPARISON TO THEIR OTHER AMPS! Is it fair to make that comparison? YES, absolutely YES! I hold MESA to higher standard than Marshall or Peavey or Line 6 etc. That is why I have not yet switched to ENGL or DIEZEL. Now, my hope is that I am experiencing an anomaly...as rare as it is. However, there is evidence that suggests that other people may be experiencing the same thing. Are they all MESA hating Nazi's as well? Probably not.

I would venture to say that of the people that own a Mark V 80% love it and 20% have issues with it or, for whatever reason, flat out hate it. Period. I would also venture to say that 90% of the people that have issues with the MARK V have those issues because of a tube blowing out early on, or a fuse blowing out more than once, or any other number of repetitive quality issues; and 10% of people that have issues with the MARK V don't like the sound of it because they don't sound exactly like METALLICA or JOHN PETRUCCI and they'll say anything no matter how ridiculous or asinine just to bash MESA.

Personally, I have grown attached to the sound of the MARK V (even though it is a tad bit fizzy and sizzley) and I would love to justify another MARK V purchase. However, I cannot justify that purchase at this time without my confidence being restored that there will not be a single quality issue with the amp that I buy. As of right now, I am highly considering throwing my MARK V combo on Craigslist and starting over with another MARK V amp hoping for better luck.

Anyway, this is the basis for any of my criticism regarding the Mark V.

It should also be said that MESA has always helped me whenever I had a problem with one of their amps. This is just the first time I feel like maybe I should cash out and try again with another amp.

This is just my take on it, so, take it for what you will.

 

[Azrehan]

I agree here that there are definitely those who are MESA-bashing because they don't know how to or don't think they can get a good tone
out of their MarkV. I suggest to them to spend more time tweaking the amp and less time on the boogie board talking about how **** the tone is.

I paid $7000AUD on my MarkV and Stiletto Quad (with free pickups installed in a guitar), so I understand when people are frustrated at quality control
issues. $7000 is a **** load of money! ($5,800US)

So far mine has had to have a reverb relay fixed and the face paint is wearing slightly - which after only 2 months or so is making me nervous about how the
paint is going to hold up in the long term. I also hear some crackling every now and then when I turn it on, so I'm going to have to get that checked out.

But after saying all that, I freaking love this amp! I play it every chance I can get, I get to rehearsals early to fire it up and tweak away. I tell my work mates,
my family and anyone else who is polite enough to listen to how awesome I think it is. If it breaks, I'll get it fixed. If the face text wears off, I'll get a new face plate from mesa. Nuff said.

 

[Aart]

+1 on the OP.

Mesa has only one real issue with the amp and that's the paint rubbing off, and that can be repaired fairly easy. The amp seems great on every other point. I'm not a Mk 5 lover, I absolutely love my Mark IV so I won't buy one, but the bashing is unfair.

The amp is great, and it won't nail the C+'s or IV's tone, but it has its own great sounds, but you don't buy a V to model other amps.

I think we will see the bashing stop in a few months when the introduction problems are over and people know the amp.

 

[JOEY B.]

you don't buy a V to model other amps.

Obviously some people tried to do just that. When you read the manual, it would lead you to believe that you are buying 9 amps in one box, which is just not reality. As far as the bashing goes, I think most of it is uncalled for. I bought a 2-channel Triple Rec back in the day without playing one firsthand. I had no internet and was clueless about the revisions to the preamp boards of the Rectos. I struggled for a LONG time to make that amp sound like I wanted, but finally accepted the fact that it was not the right amp for ME. I would NEVER go to the Rectifier forum and start bashing those amps. It would not offer anything constructive or helpful to anyone reading my posts. Neither will someone posting on the vintage forum how the C+ SLAYS the MkV. Get ny point.
:wink: :wink:

 

[scott from _actual time_]

I have found tons of posts in other forums discussing this amp ...

what forums might those be? the S/N here has been a bit lower lately than i care for.

 

[KH Guitar Freak]

you don't buy a V to model other amps.

Obviously some people tried to do just that. When you read the manual, it would lead you to believe that you are buying 9 amps in one box, which is just not reality. As far as the bashing goes, I think most of it is uncalled for. I bought a 2-channel Triple Rec back in the day without playing one firsthand. I had no internet and was clueless about the revisions to the preamp boards of the Rectos. I struggled for a LONG time to make that amp sound like I wanted, but finally accepted the fact that it was not the right amp for ME. I would NEVER go to the Rectifier forum and start bashing those amps. It would not offer anything constructive or helpful to anyone reading my posts. Neither will someone posting on the vintage forum how the C+ SLAYS the MkV. Get ny point.
:wink: :wink:

If you fiddle around with it, I still believe you really are getting "9 amps" in one. However, I reckon some people just wished miracles on an amp sometimes...

 

[ebmmjp7]

I traded my Bogner Ecstasy 101b for this amp. Never in a MILLION years would I go back on that trade. However, my speakers may be old, or blown or something. I have played this exact amp through other Ecstasy cabs (which is what I have) and the amp sounded way different. Much more low end and power. I am going to replace my speakers before I form any rash opinions about the amp, but so far, besides the issues I stated, I am happy with it. It seems to have much more potential than I can offer it at this time. I will and have recommended this amp to others.

Just my .02 cents.

 

[MrMarkIII]

Great post.
My two cents: no amp could possibly live up to the combination of hype and anticipation that preceded the release of the V. So a big part of the disappointment is certainly "buyer's remorse".
I enjoy all the opinions and generally read them all. However, I would never buy anything solely based on others' opinions. Always take several grains of salt before reading reviews and complaints.
What I find amusing and annoying at the same time is how much vitriol is generated over extremely subjective value judgements over "tone".
It just seems like arguing over which peanut butter is "best". Sure, share your observations and opinions, but if someone doesn't find the Mark V the Greatest Amp Ever Made, so what? It doesn't make him wrong or stupid, it just means he has other tastes in peanut butter.

 

[MesaGod666]

What I find amusing and annoying at the same time is how much vitriol is generated over extremely subjective value judgements over "tone".
It just seems like arguing over which peanut butter is "best". Sure, share your observations and opinions, but if someone doesn't find the Mark V the Greatest Amp Ever Made, so what? It doesn't make him wrong or stupid, it just means he has other tastes in peanut butter.

You hit the nail on the head with that one. I feel that as long as the MARK V sounds like a MARK then MESA accomplished their goal. I'll bet that 90% of everyone that has played this amp can agree that the MARK V sounds like a MARK.

 

[hazbin]

So I have had my Mark V for over a week now and besides having to change a pre amp tube it has been awesome (WTF, no front access to the pre amp tubes). Great tones, lots of options and a lot of fun. Comparing it to my other Marks is like apples and oranges though. Sure, it sounds like a Mark series in general but it does offer so much more. I have to say that this is probably the nicest amp I have ever owned. It would be awesome to be able to switch the modes within the channels via foot controller and or ground control. It would be nice to have the option to switch the EQ options on the fly also, but WTF, it's a great amp and sounds killer!! Maybe Mesa will come out with a modern Satellite amp to run stereo with the new Mark V. That would be killer!!

 

[Jim Ed Love]

Great post.
My two cents: no amp could possibly live up to the combination of hype and anticipation that preceded the release of the V. So a big part of the disappointment is certainly "buyer's remorse".

Yeah, I'm pretty sure there is "buyers remorse", not to mention some people realizing they can't actually afford the amp and end up selling it in a month, after the first bill arrives.

 

[th0rr]

Great replies!

I don't think anyone truly minds when someone posts their honest opinion of the amp. I believe it is important to hear the negatives as well as the positive. This way one can get a more balanced, honest review and also it makes it easier to spot patterns which could point to a true QA issue on the company's part.

It's when one continues to kick the dead horse about whatever and then seems to go about trying to piss on everyone's parade that I believe most of us have a problem with. To those I say move on. Your opinion has been noted and noted again.

I posted a few times in the F-50 forum back when but when I finally came to the realization that I just could not make the 2nd channel sound like I wanted it to I just stopped posting. There wasn't a need to go on and on about how the 2nd channel was letting me down or go into combat with a person who was digging his sounds and perfectly happy jamming away on channel 2. Why? What good could possibly come from it?

However those with real issues like MesaGod666, cam (?) and others, please continue to keep us informed. Let us know how Mesa deals with your issues and whether or not your issues truly get fixed. This is what is really important.

Based on my personal past dealings with Mesa I'm sure they'll get it sorted out. Whatever issues they might have from time to time they seem to excel in customer service which is one big reason they get my dollars.

I agree about the hype part. I truly wish they had just marketed the amp as the next step in evolution of the Mark series instead of hyping it like it was some kind of modeling amp. Maybe Mesa needs to take a closer look at their marketing department?

 

[cam]

Well I'm one that had tube probs in my combo... oh and lettering probs, then the sound going out, then back to Mesa who couldn't find a prob... got it back... and it is definitely the speaker. Once they replace the speaker, it'll be good as gold. Despite PITA probs, it's an excellent sounding and versatile amp. That's why I bought a head also, which has had 0 probs. Not sure if I'll keep both for $$ reasons but I have no remorse whatsoever.

 

[theroan]

Ok, so far on this board we have had some members with true issues with the amp that forced it to go back for repairs. Not making light of those with issues. I truely sympathize. But how many is this out of people with no issues at all? I guess what I am getting at is that the amp is obviously selling well, but other than this board I have not really come across any truely negative reviews or people with real issues.

I have googled for "Mark V amp issues" "Mark V tube issues" "Mark V blowing up tubes" etc... and other than this board I cannot find any.

I have found tons of posts in other forums discussing this amp and other than some folks stating that this amp is not their cup of tea, for whatever reasons, I cannot find any other forum where sweeping generalizations are made as to the Mesa build quality or company selling out.

Statements have been made to the effect that they know for sure that Mesa willingly put out an inferior product to pay for R&D costs. Any proof of that statement? That John Petrucci only plays modded Mark V's. Any proof of that statement as well? Especially since Mesa has gone on record that they do not mod any artist amps. Those are the most recent examples I remember off the top of my head. I hear a lot of comments being stated as fact but I do not see any proof. I am not challanging anyone or calling anyone a liar, merely would like to examine the proof and I mean real proof not more conjecture. Because if there is proof that Mesa is willingly putting out a high end amp's not ready for prime time then maybe that is an indication to take our dollars elsewhere.

Usually companys will try out some new features in lower end models before putting them in their highend models. That is what usually helps pay for R&D.

Others have found that they, for whatever reason, do not like the sound of the amp and then seem to go out of their way to find issues. Plastic shafted pots, PCB, leadless solder, or whatever reason they can find however irrelevant, if only to support their not liking the amp. I am not limiting this to only the Mark V or this forum. We have all seen this in relation to other amps in other forums. To those who do this we get it. You don't like it. f%&# move on.

Also I have heard others refer to this amp as "cheap" as in made cheaply. Over the years I have heard Mesa called many things but never cheap or fragile. Is it fair for these sweeping generalizations to be made due to some having issues or simply not liking the amp?

I mean take my example. I have a Mac Mini, or rather had. It freaking died after 1yr and 2wks. Just after the 1yr warranty, of course. I spent $800 bucks on it after upgrades and I am righteously pissed, this happened a couple of months ago but it still chaps my *** :evil: . But would it be fair for me to start slagging Mac's? Calling them cheap pieces of crap? Especially since some of my friends and co-workers have no issues with them? Nope. Just my spot of bad luck. That's all it is. No big conspiracies by the man to rob me of my money. Just plain old luck of the draw bad luck.

Now time to go and nurse my hangover. :wink:

+1, well said.

 

[CudBucket]

Mesa has only one real issue with the amp and that's the paint rubbing off...

Based on what I've read on this board alone, I think there's more at issue than just the paint.

 

[CudBucket]

you don't buy a V to model other amps.

Obviously some people tried to do just that. When you read the manual, it would lead you to believe that you are buying 9 amps in one box, which is just not reality.

I agree with you but you can't blame people for believing what Mesa publishes. The Mark IIC+ and Mark IV modes are MAIN selling points of the amp.

 

[CudBucket]

I think it all balances out in the end. Let's face it: In general, people don't like when someone else speaks negatively of gear they own. It affects some people on a personal level. To those people I say, if you like the gear, then what does it matter if someone else doesn't? Everyone's allowed to speak their piece.

On the other hand, in general, people don't like the honeymoon-posters and gear-fan-boys either. Those guys could plug into a turd pile and as long as it has the right logo on it, they'll tell you it sounds like god.

When you put these 2 polar opposites on the internet and in the same forum, the tendency is that discussions will escalate. One guy hates the amp and offends the guy who loves it. So guy #2 has to come back and defend his amp and probably says something that implies the other guy is a "hater" or a "noob" or just doesn't know how to dial in a Mesa. So that guy comes back and reinforces how dissapointed he is in Mesa, etc., etc.

It's just gear guys.

Have fun playing it.

Dave

 

[kingdomheights777]

I think it all balances out in the end. Let's face it: In general, people don't like when someone else speaks negatively of gear they own. It affects some people on a personal level. To those people I say, if you like the gear, then what does it matter if someone else doesn't. Everyone's aloud to speak their piece.

On the other hand, in general, people don't like the honeymoon-posters and gear-fan-boys either. Those guys could plug into a turd pile and as long as it has the right logo on it, they'll tell you it sounds like god.

When you put these 2 polar opposites on the internet and in the same forum, the tendency is that discussions will escalate. One guy hates the amp and offends the guy who loves it. So guy #2 has to come back and defend his amp and probably says something that implies the other guy is a "hater" or a "noob" or just doesn't know how to dial in a Mesa. So that guy comes back and reinforces how dissapointed he is in Mesa, etc., etc.

It's just gear guys.

Have fun playing it.

Dave

+1