STR-440s in IIC+?

[exbest182]

Hey all,

I looked through most of the tube posts where people are recommending this and that for tubes for the C+... I just sent my IIC+ to Mike B. last week, and after a total overhaul (every cap replaced, suspect ldr replaced, new sliders for the eq, and much more) Mike B. suspects it may be about time to change the inner 6l6s, as he states class A in my amp runs really hot. He said he'd decide if it needed it, but I've been thinking about retubing it anyways.. since I'm getting it back brand new pretty much I figured, lets just start fresh... now, I see everybody recommending this and that... I have all stock Mesa tubes in my Mark V, and I really like how it sounds... Am I the only one that digs them? I've honestly, never went outside the box and went with other brands, so while other tubes may sound better.. I dig the stock tubes... right now, my IIC+ has a random cocktail of preamp tubes, grove tubes, a jj, and a mesa 12ax7... they all seem like they were just replaced as needed, as some seemed in better shape than others... and it has STR-440s for the power tubes... which I know have some hours on them.. I play punk, and some metal... and I just want to keep the lead channel roaring.. and the stock tubes do that for me in the V, but if I put all new stock Mesa tubes in my iic+ would it really be that bad?? this is my first real retube, and i just want to make the right choice.

 

[zodiac272]

I'm sure the 440's will sound fine, but maybe they aren't optimal. The mesa branded sylvania str-415 are a great match for the C+. They will sound great, plus a fresh set will last thousands of hours, compared to many hundreds of hours of new stock tubes. if you want EL-34's in the simul sockets, try to find a pair of sylvania str 416's, for the same reasons.

for preamp in the C+, for me, I would find some NOS RCA, Tung Sol, Sylvania, GE, RFT, Tungsram for it.

whatever you do, I would suggest fresh tubes after the service

scott

 

[Neptical]

The old Marks love the STR 415's ALOT. I have a few sets that I rotate in and out with my III's. Same can be said with the old Tesla EL34's. If you want to cut some costs though, Winged =C='s are hard to beat for new production power tubes.

 

[chipaudette]

A couple years ago, I sent in my IIC to MikeB to get upgraded to a IIC+. As part of the upgrade and general overhaul, he replaced the old power tubes with new Mesa STR-440s. They were OK, but didn't really get me going. Of course, the amp was new to me, too, so I didn't really know what it should have sounded like.

Within a couple months, I dropped in some very old STR-420s that I pulled out of my Simulclass 2:90. After going back-and-forth a little bit, I remember liking those better than the 440s. But, my testing was far from double-blind.

Then, about a year ago, I bought some Winged C ("=C=") 6L6s. They were brand new, but not necessarily made right then. I think that they were made a few years before...possibly from an older Winged C factory. Or maybe they were really new new. I don't really remember. All I know is that I liked them. They're the tubes that are still in my amp. If the newest =C= tubes are like mine, they sound pretty good.

Maybe I need to go back and try the 440s again. Maybe I'll like them now. Maybe not. I just seem to remember them feeling cold and stiff.

Chip

 

[dodger916]

The old Marks love the STR 415's ALOT. I have a few sets that I rotate in and out with my III's. Same can be said with the old Tesla EL34's. If you want to cut some costs though, Winged =C='s are hard to beat for new production power tubes.

+1 on both counts. STR415s (Sylvania 6L6GC) and 416s (6CA7/EL34) were standard equip on the Mark IIs.

 

[Facelift]

The old Marks love the STR 415's ALOT. I have a few sets that I rotate in and out with my III's. Same can be said with the old Tesla EL34's. If you want to cut some costs though, Winged =C='s are hard to beat for new production power tubes.

I was thinking about changing out the 440s and popping in a nice set of 415s in my III as well. What difference did you notice in sound and is it really worth it to spend that kind of money on them. I was also thinking about changing out the Mesa EL34s and getting a set of NOS RFT EL34. I thought I saw somewhere that the Mesa labeled EL34 IS an RFT EL34 but Im not certain on that. Any thoughts?

 

[Neptical]

The old Marks love the STR 415's ALOT. I have a few sets that I rotate in and out with my III's. Same can be said with the old Tesla EL34's. If you want to cut some costs though, Winged =C='s are hard to beat for new production power tubes.

I was thinking about changing out the 440s and popping in a nice set of 415s in my III as well. What difference did you notice in sound and is it really worth it to spend that kind of money on them. I was also thinking about changing out the Mesa EL34s and getting a set of NOS RFT EL34. I thought I saw somewhere that the Mesa labeled EL34 IS an RFT EL34 but Im not certain on that. Any thoughts?

Facelift - Hey, man.. in my experience just as Chip mentioned, I feel the 440s come out a little stiffy and cold feeling. The 415s are very warm and big with nice smooth highs.Those older RFT EL34s are in the same boat with my NOS Tesla and Telefunken's. You can't go wrong there. Excellent tubes! And your correct - the RFT EL34 were rebranded as the Mesa STR 450s.

 

[Facelift]

The old Marks love the STR 415's ALOT. I have a few sets that I rotate in and out with my III's. Same can be said with the old Tesla EL34's. If you want to cut some costs though, Winged =C='s are hard to beat for new production power tubes.

I was thinking about changing out the 440s and popping in a nice set of 415s in my III as well. What difference did you notice in sound and is it really worth it to spend that kind of money on them. I was also thinking about changing out the Mesa EL34s and getting a set of NOS RFT EL34. I thought I saw somewhere that the Mesa labeled EL34 IS an RFT EL34 but Im not certain on that. Any thoughts?

Facelift - Hey, man.. in my experience just as Chip mentioned, I feel the 440s come out a little stiffy and cold feeling. The 415s are very warm and big with nice smooth highs.Those older RFT EL34s are in the same boat with my NOS Tesla and Telefunken's. You can't go wrong there. Excellent tubes! And your correct - the RFT EL34 were rebranded as the Mesa STR 450s.

good to know. I have str-447 so those arent the ones. 150 bucks per tube aint gonna happen for me either. Ill just get the RFT labeled and pay half that.

 

[zodiac272]

Within a couple months, I dropped in some very old STR-420s that I pulled out of my Simulclass 2:90. After going back-and-forth a little bit, I remember liking those better than the 440s. But, my testing was far from double-blind.

Chip

I did the same exact thing... 420's from my 2:90. sounded great, but in a C+ (coliseum), Mike B. said they may not last, and get newer tubes

scott

 

[zodiac272]

the STR 450's are $150 a pair from mesa, but they can be found cheaper. I got a quad for $75, but that was luck


scott

 

[DaveP]

I think the preamp tubes make more difference than the power tubes. I have tried the new STR440's and 447's and comparing them with STR415 and 450's there really wasn't a noticeable improvement.
At least not to me. Just seems like a lot of money for the NOS stuff and I don't think it really makes that much difference. I find getting the right combination of preamp tubes is the key.
Of course this is only my opinion.

 

[Neptical]

Hey, Dave..I agree with you if your playing at non-gigging volume/bedroom volumes, you're not going to notice any difference. This subject really only matters when your cranking the amp pretty loud - which in return you really start to hear the difference in the softness or harshness in the power tubes. I can usually tell the night and day difference in preamp tubes at pretty low volumes, though (obviously since it's all preamp gain at that point). I definitely agree 100% that you don't have to spend a ton of money on NOS tubes. My red stripe Mark III has nothing but all new production tubes in right now and sounds huge! All Winged =C= (EL34/6L6) and a mix of Tung-Sol,EH,EH Goldpins,Sovtek LPS for 12AX7s. Best combination of new production tubes that I'm sticking with.

 

[exbest182]

So Mike B. called me today... more issues with my amp... ugh.. apparently it was biased too hot, like way too hot... he said it was run 80mils with red 6l6s in class A, where he likes it around 50.... he's also putting in a new power cable, and replacing the power tubes, he said he's going to put in 440s, and he spoke highly of them, though I know he's Mesa and will try to sell Mesa... but being who he is, I'm going to go ahead and go ahead and stick with the 440s for now, and change out the preamp tubes... i'm thinking of going with the dougstubes preamp kit... he said the amp was a total wreck, the inside was dirty and beat up.. every single cap had to be replaced, along with all the other normal work... he said whoever maintenanced it last, was not mesa, and did a piss poor job on it.. he said I'm going to be super happy with it when I get it back.. so let's see.. i can always change out the power tubes later, and save the 440s for my Mark V... anxious to get it back.

 

[zodiac272]

That's the greatest phone call ever... you are gonna **** yourself how good it sounds the next time you play it!

hopefully they get it shipped by early next week...

scott

 

[exbest182]

yea, he also told me.. which i guess i should have looked... that I don't have an xport tranny... which I always thought I did.. he said originally, it was built a Mark IIB, 100w, xport tranny w/ GEQ... then when it was converted, the xport tranny was removed (wtf) and it was changed to a Simul-class, with the early Mark III tranny, and the Mark III Simul... I'm just overly excited.... even though we're up to over $400 in repair/changes... he's gonna pull all the xport stuff that's left in, and gonna plate it off, but he said he was going to try to find a socket for me... which would be excellent.... I think i'll finally get to hear this amp to it's full potential.

Just ordered my preamp kit from Dougstubes... so that should be here around the same time as my amp.. maybe a little earlier.

 

[Philhouse]

Man, I read these threads and get so jealous of you guys in the states.
I'd kill to have the one and only MB go over my amps, being on the other side of the globe, realistically its never gonna happen.
The knowledge that one man has of them... I vote if it ever comes to a 'Futurama' like existence, Mike's head is the first to get preserved for eternity.

Lucky bastards ! :lol:

Oh yeah, another vote for Winged =c='s, for the comparative price and sound to the 415's that I have, I rather wear out the =c='s with volume gigs and keep the 415s for me at home, they're my top shelf, reserved select vintage tubes.

 

[chipaudette]

Being in the states, I'm blissfully unaware of the difficulties of international shipping. So, what's the major difficulty with shipping your amp to California? Cost? Legal stuff (customs or whatever)?

Remember, that when you ship your amp to MikeB, you only ship the metal chassis that holds the guts of the amp...you don't ship the cabinet and speaker. Therefore, you're talking about ~25 lbs from England or Australia or wherever to California. How much does that cost...

...OK, I just went to UPS.com and priced a package from my house (east coast, USA) to Sydney. It was ~$400 USD. That's a lot of green. I guess that my question is answered.

Pointless post.

Chip

 

[exbest182]

btw.. +1 for dougstubes - ordered my preamp set thursday evening, tracking number provided friday morning, will be here on Monday... anybody tried his preamp tone kit on a IIC+?

 

[exbest182]

...OK, I just went to UPS.com and priced a package from my house (east coast, USA) to Sydney. It was ~$400 USD. That's a lot of green. I guess that my question is answered.

Pointless post.

Chip

yea.. but for something like a IIC+, I wouldn't trust anybody but Mike B. to do it... Dude is the guru for the older Mark amps, and loves to talk about them.. I got 3 seperate calls from him over a couple days talking about different options and things that I could do for my amp.. even though shipping might be terrible, in the long run, I think it's worth it... I had a guy here in town that was going to charge me half of what Mesa is charging me, and promised it back in 2-3 days, but I went with Mike B.. just because it's Mike B.. his initials are on the back of my amp!

 

[zodiac272]

...OK, I just went to UPS.com and priced a package from my house (east coast, USA) to Sydney. It was ~$400 USD. That's a lot of green. I guess that my question is answered.

Pointless post.

Chip

USPS might get it from Cali to AU for $250, still a lot.



yea.. but for something like a IIC+, I wouldn't trust anybody but Mike B. to do it... Dude is the guru for the older Mark amps, and loves to talk about them.. I got 3 seperate calls from him over a couple days talking about different options and things that I could do for my amp.. even though shipping might be terrible, in the long run, I think it's worth it... I had a guy here in town that was going to charge me half of what Mesa is charging me, and promised it back in 2-3 days, but I went with Mike B.. just because it's Mike B.. his initials are on the back of my amp!

+1,
I remember this amp when it was for sale in Chicago, two owners before you, Exbest182, and it was supposed to be in great shape. Just goes to show, that almost always, without that yellow return auth to mesa, the amps condition is suspect. I bought 3 IIC+ over the past year, and all 3 were supposed to be "perfect" but all had problems. no worries, M.B. took care of them


scott