Single or Dual rectifier?

[metall]

I've found a used dual rectifier solo head for about the same price as the single rectifier solo head..

Ok, please let me know if I'm wrong here, but:
Here is what I am sceptical about at the dual rectifier:
- It doesnt sound as good as the single on low volume
- I've heard the three channel version isn't as good as the two channel version
- more expensive to change tubes
- I will probably have to change the tubes soon because their'e used
- I will have to buy a more expensive cabinet (?)

and the single rectifier:
- Only two channels
- Im really not shure of this but it has less presence at high volume?



OK, so what I want from the tone is a sharp really higain AWESOME tone, similiar to the Pantera sound at cowboys from hell. I currently have a cube 60 at the rectifier-mode. full gain, full presence and treeble at low volume and about 8 or 9 (out of 10) at high volume. Bass at about 4 or 5 and mid at about 3..

When I play with the band I have to have almost full volume with this 60 watts non-tube amp(forgot the english word for "non-tube"..) I would like it louder, but it just starts to feed ALOT. But I doubt the single rectifier wont be powerfull enough.
How is the noise on theese two amps? (single and dual rectifier solo head) does they feed a lot? I have EMG 81 and EMG 85
When you turn off your guitar does it still make noise? (not talking about feedback, but that constant noise that many amps has, some amps makes a LOT of that noise at high volume even when theres no jack plugged in, or the volume switch at the guitar is turned all the way down.



So, what would you recomend? And also please say what cabinet I should buy with it =)

Thanks

 

[tele_jas]

If I had my choice, and I have, I'd choose the Dual...... But:

You aren't going to get a real tight Pantera type of sound from any Rectifier.... Rectifiers are kind of know for a loose bottom end and some modelers don't show that when playing with that model.

Tone is all subjective when comparing 2ch and 3ch.... Some say the 2 ch is warmer, some say the 3ch is more aggressive but has more fizz. I think if they are EQ'd right they can sound pretty close to the same (I'll get slammed for that remark). The 3ch does have a better clean channel and of course more options with 3 channels to choose from.

Yes, the dual is more expensive to retube but only by about $40 every 24 months or so (more or less depending on how much you play), each set of 6L6's cost about $40, so you're looking at around $80 to retube all the power tubes in the Dual. The rectifier tubes last longer, maybe 5-8 years (maybe more) ... Also you can even run the dual recto without any rectifier tubes in it at all as long as you keep it set on solid state rectifier.......and the preamp tubes can last 20+ years.

The Dual can be brought down to 50wts by pulling 2 power tubes, but my sound a bit different than a single recto since it still has a bigger transformer.

On the other hand, 50 tube wts is really more than ANYONE should ever need, so that's where the single may win if you don't want to mess with pulling the dual's tubes.

As long as you have a 100wt cab, you will be fine and not need a more expensive cab. My favorite cabs are 2x12's and you can get a good one for around $250-$300 (check out Avatar cabs).

As far as low volume, not really any tube amp with distortion is going to sound good at low volumes.... not even a 20 wt amp, and the difference in 50wts vs 100wts is only about 4 db.

These amps aren't real noisey either, but they are noiser than most Solid State amps (non tube amp), but the Rectifiers are about the quietest without using a noise gate (the Peavey 5150 is about the noisiest).

I'd get the Dual for the more options, even though 50wts would be enough, you won't regret getting the Dual.... But if you want a real tight sound you might check out some other amps too before you get a rectifier (like the Peavey 5150 and Peavey XXX), I like Boogies best, but these are a bit cheaper and are just as aggressive or even more so in some cases.
That's my $.02 worth, hope it helps some.....

 

[BENNY]

METALL YOU ROCK DUDE. MOST ENTERTAINING POST I HAVE READ IN A WHILE. BUY WHATEVER ONE YOU THINK IS BEST FOR YOU. CABINET WON'T MATTER BETWEEN THE 2 AS LONG AS IT CAN HANDLE 100 WATTS RIGHT ? PERSONALLY I WOULD BUY THE DUAL. 3 CHANNELS ARE GREAT. YOU CAN ALWAYS PULL 2 TUBES OUT AND KNOCK IT DOWN TO 50 WATTS IF YOU ARE WORRIED ABOUT BEDROOM TONES. BUT PLAY THEM BOTH AND BUY THE ONE YOU LIKE BETTER. IF IT WERE ME I GO IN THERE WITH A BIG FAT WAD OF CASH AND LOW BALL THE GUY FOR THE USED DUAL. MAKE SURE YOU READ THE OWNERS MANUAL TWICE. AND TAKE NOTES.

 

[metall]

You aren't going to get a real tight Pantera type of sound from any Rectifier.... Rectifiers are kind of know for a loose bottom end and some modelers don't show that when playing with that model.

Can you please explain what loose bottom end means?
btw it might looked like I wanted a copy of pantera's sound. I want something similar, like an even more thrashy sound than kill 'em all (by metallica) mixed with the pantera sound or something.. Just an awesome thrash sound

Yes, the dual is more expensive to retube but only by about $40 every 24 months or so (more or less depending on how much you play), each set of 6L6's cost about $40, so you're looking at around $80 to retube all the power tubes in the Dual. The rectifier tubes last longer, maybe 5-8 years (maybe more) ... Also you can even run the dual recto without any rectifier tubes in it at all as long as you keep it set on solid state rectifier.......and the preamp tubes can last 20+ years.

I was at a guitar store today and asked about that. He said that active players who just got to have the best changes tubes once or twice a year, and that it would cost about 1000 NOK which is aproximatly 150 $.( But I live in norway and all guitar stuff cost much more here.. )
But I think I will go tube anyway, so the rectifier will be cheaper to maintain than other tube amps, is that right?

As long as you have a 100wt cab, you will be fine and not need a more expensive cab. My favorite cabs are 2x12's and you can get a good one for around $250-$300 (check out Avatar cabs).

CABINET WON'T MATTER BETWEEN THE 2 AS LONG AS IT CAN HANDLE 100 WATTS RIGHT ?

Are you sure? I've heard that you can blow out 100 watts cabinets with the dual rectifier. btw how does the cabinet affect the sound when comparing the rectifier cabinets 2x12 and 4x12?


Thanks for the answers so far its really hard for me to deside because the only rectifier I have tried in a store is sold now.. they actualy sold it while I was playing on it . The guitar stores here doesnt import EVERYTHING, so I havent tried the dual yet..

 

[Elpelotero]

Hey Metall,

Please read this carefully...I'm going to give you a run down. Telejas gave you a lot of good info, but I'm going to add my 2cents.

*when we say tight, we mean Metallica Master of Puppets.
*when we say loose woofy bass, we mean Godsmack nu-metal chug.

SINGLE vs. DUAL:
I would personally take the Dual because it has more features and you can drop it to 50watts anyways, which is what the Single has. note them feature for feature and the Dual has more. A lot of people say the Single sounds better than the Dual. I personally think people are mistaking the better tone for lower wattage. At a lower wattage, the tubes saturate more and you get a better sound.

3ch vs. 2ch:
I own both of the amps right now. I have 2 2channels and a 3ch. The 2channels sound much smoother, more organic, much tighter, and has better clarity between the strings when playing in distortion (the notes in the chords sound out). The 3ch can be more aggressive and can sound close, but if you're a tone junkie or purist, you'll appreciate the older 2channel models better. The 3ch has a lot of "beehive" fizz that's difficult to dial out. The 3channel has better diversity (more modes and channels). it also has a better clean channel. But the 2ch wins for distortion I believe. There's a whole history to this, but it's long and this isn't the post for it.

$$$$ tubes:
It's not much more. Maybe $40 like telejas said. And remember you can run a Dual at 50watts.

Cabinet:
Any cabinet will do as long as its speakers combine for over 50/100watts. Mesa cabs sound really good with Mesa amps, obviously. The amps are made for these cabs.

Like Telejas said, 50watts on a recto IS VERY VERY VERY LOUD! I once played at about 1/8 total volume (out of 100watts) in my room and my grandpa heard me in his car down the block!

Rectos have some hummmmmm, but it's nothing incredibly annoying. The higher the gain, the more you get, but it's not horrible and is easily ignored. Any high gain amp will have hum.


NOW
You're talking about getting a THRASH PANTERA EARLY METALLICA sound? A RECTIFIER IS NOT FOR YOU! Rectos don't do thrash! You can play thrash on a recto, but a recto can't play thrash. Notice the difference there. You'll get annoyed very quickly trying to dial out all the bass Rectos have. Rectos are best suited for newer rock styles and some vintage sounds, but definitely not thrash.

YOU NEED A MARK4! Or a Stilleto! But not the recto. Metallica used a Mark2C+ to record almost all their albums. Kirk used a Mark4 to record some leads in the later albums. Mark2C+'s are no longer made and are very rare and expensive. A Mark4 will get you 95% of a C+'s tone at half the cost. P.S. For tight tones, a Stilleto/traditional Mesa Cab is bette than the Oversized Recto cab. Much tighter. Enjoy and rock on!

 

[Russ]

+1 on the Mark IV...

 

[Shep]

with the tubes... go to eurotubes.com and they will set you up with a great deal...they are wat most of the guy's on her use .

 

[tele_jas]

Can you please explain what loose bottom end means?
btw it might looked like I wanted a copy of pantera's sound. I want something similar, like an even more thrashy sound than kill 'em all (by metallica) mixed with the pantera sound or something.. Just an awesome thrash sound

Tight is when you are chunking on it and the speakers are just really pushing out the low end so hard it feels like a vortex of low end coming from the cabinet..... A fine example is "Master of Puppets" in the middle when is slows down and then starts to get heavy again and James starts saying "Master, Master, wheres the dreams I've been after" and also in "Orion".... Or, as mentioned above, pretty much any song on that album and the Black album. Anthrax's "Anti-Scocial" is another good exapmle of a tight song.

A couple good example of "loose" Mesa Boogie Rectifier songs by Metallica would be "Whisky in the Jar-O" or "Fuel" and most of Creeds songs. Just more of a "saggy" or "Mushy" low end, but still aggressive.

I was at a guitar store today and asked about that. He said that active players who just got to have the best changes tubes once or twice a year,

How much do you play guiter?? I play almost every weekend (Friday and Saturday) using mine at 4-5 hours a night... and a set of power tubes will last me a good year and a half to two years, but I can definately tell the difference when I change tubes, it just feels more "alive" when I change tubes. If you played every night for 2-4 hours at a time, yeah you'd need to change your tubes about every 6-8 months, but most people don't play that much (I wish I could though).

The only way you'd blow a 100wt cab with a 100wt amp would be if you ran it at MAX volume for a long time with the bass and treble maxed out. That's why they have a 100wt rating on them, to let you know it'll handle 100wts.

To me, if you're looking for that "Thrash" type of sound with a tighter attack you'd probably not be too happy with a Single or Dual Rectifier... Sure, you can put a boost pedal in front of the amp to tighten it up some (like a Tubescreamer with a low gain setting), but it still might not be tight enough for you. I still recommend you checking out the Peavey 5150 or 6505 (same amp, different name) or even the Peavey XXX or JSX.... But that's just my opinion.

 

[HappyStrat]

*when we say tight, we mean Metallica Master of Puppets.
*when we say loose woofy bass, we mean Godsmack nu-metal chug.

Thanx for clearing that up for me, I had no clue what the tight/loose thing sounded like. I like to A/B switch my RK & MK IV so I can get the best of both worlds at the push of a switch.

 

[nathan28]

I love this forum, the guys on here know their stuff, and I would never have found my tone without them.
To help you out, i owned a single rec, then a triple and now a RKII, and just to let you know the one thing that I have noticed between the single rec and the triple was that the triple seemed to be more brutal sounding, you feel the bass more. It really does feel like it has more power, when i held a full chord on the single i couldnt here the indvidual notes as much as what i could with the triple or even my roadking. Definitely go with the dual, you get the extra channel, you get the option of running tube rectifiers which definetly changes your tone, you get more power. Hands down get the dual. Worse case scenario you get the dual it has too much power so you pull a pair of power tubes, but you should be able to get a great sound without having to do that. But if you get the single, the worse case scenario is, you dont have enough power, two channels might not be enough. Use the condom theory: always have one cause you never know when your goin to score, if you dont have one you cant score. Its better to have more than what u need than not enough.