Should Mesa Boogie reissue the Mark IIC+ ?

[Guitarfreak]

What do you think?

 

[Guitarfreak]

What do you think?

Simply put: Yes! I would not have the output tube sockets on the main PCB just due to the heat breaking down the fiberglass and components. Sound's like at least 3K for a re-issue that is even close to the same spec and components.

 

[bandit2013]

I feel like the JP2C is the reissue we're going to get. I mean, maybe not, I could be wrong, Gibson being who they are, cashing in on their legacy at every chance they get, I could see them doing an official reissue, w/o JPs name attrached, but I feel like that would kill sales of the JP2C. Either way, I have my Mark 3, JP2C, and Mark 7, which all sound fantastic, and honestly, I feel like the Mark VII improves on my OG Mark 3, it's that good, I don't find it sterile or lacking.

Considering Mesa brought back the compact Mark combo size, no reason they cannot stuff the JP2C chassis into that combo shell. It will fit. If they do it right, and choose a better speaker that can hold up better than the MC90, EVM front baffle mounted will fit, rear baffle mounted is a no go.

Both the JP2C and the Mark VII sound really good through the EVM12L Classic speaker. I have one loaded in a widebody 112 open back cab. It was not a good fit with the Mark V90 though. I am not much of a fan for the MC90 speaker. Probably why I will not buy another combo if it has that speaker in it. You can get to gig level without fear of the dust cap popping off with the EVM12L Classic or Black label speaker and it works great at bedroom level as well. The JP2C and the Mark VII has the proper tune in the design of the amp so it is not boxy or nasal sounding or shrill like the Mark V90. Even the Mark IVB had that nasal tone to it, EV was not ideal with that amp either. My taste was with the Mark III blue stripe combo with the EVM12L Black Shadow speaker. I found the EV black Label was as close in construction to the one Mesa used back in the late 80's. The current EV classis is not that much different. Now made in Mexico. I had a 1990 EVM12L classic, the suspension was a bit softer than the black shadow version. Also had a softer sound to it. We all have our preferences.

If they did a IIC+ reissue, I would consider it. However, the complexity of the Mark III combo requiring a decoder ring to get clean and lead and such was a pain. No happy median if you want to switch channels. I believe that is what makes the JP2C more attractive as I do not have to reach for the dials to get a clean sound and then reach for them again to get the lead I want. Then again, if the amp sounds great at a moderate gain setting and has the dynamics of the RA100 I am in. Love an amp that can be set aggressive and rolling back on the guitar volume cleans it up without loss of volume.

So what formats? HRG, SRG, DRG? What about the KRG? Then what power tubes will we be getting with this? STR448 or the STR445? I doubt they have enough of the STR415 tubes. Would the DRG be using the STR415 and STR416? Will the preamp be using JJ ECC83s? Tungsram? Perhaps I am overthinking this.

 

[RayBarbeeMusic]

I actually like my Mark III Blue stripe better than the 2C+ I had, more touch responsive and definitely more usable at non-crushing gain levels.

 

[soloistthree]

I'd love to see them do aomwrh

I actually like my Mark III Blue stripe better than the 2C+ I had, more touch responsive and definitely more usable and non-crushing gain levels.

Careful, you'll cause Mark III prices to skyrocket!! Seriously though I like the III better as well, sounds super crushing, slightly more aggressive than the regular IIC+ modes I've played, or the JP2C

 

[RayBarbeeMusic]

I'd love to see them do aomwrh

Careful, you'll cause Mark III prices to skyrocket!! Seriously though I like the III better as well, sounds super crushing, slightly more aggressive than the regular IIC+ modes I've played, or the JP2C

People are already trying to get stupid money for them but they aren't moving. I paid around $2k about a month ago and that was too much judging by recent sales. I still see people listing for $3k and more, but the ones actually selling are $2k and under.

Still ok with it as I pocketed quite a bit vs what I sold the 2c+ for, and got, what is for my purposes at least, an upgrade.

 

[Joey1970]

The notion that the sound is in unique special components that aren't made anymore is bogus. Or another word with the letters B and S in it.

Caps? Orange drops. Still made today by CDE. Resistors? Same Vishay resistors made in '78 are still made today.

Anybody who wants a Mark II or III reissue doesn't have a problem with the control and pull switch layout.

Build what the customers want built. They know what they want.

Some people LIKE their cars to have manual transmissions and no computer.

I like my 2001 Viper GTS with the V-10 and T-56 manual and can't even imagine it with a turbo 4-cyl, even if it was faster. It's the principality of the matter. LOL Ever hear the phrase "You can't compete with a ghost" Hmmmm

 

[bandit2013]

I like my 2001 Viper GTS with the V-10 and T-56 manual and can't even imagine it with a turbo 4-cyl, even if it was faster. It's the principality of the matter. LOL Ever hear the phrase "You can't compete with a ghost" Hmmmm

They changed it to electric and it runs on two D cell batteries. No more V10 as that engine was ditched in favor of the electric light bulb. EV suck and not the speaker.

 

[robvoyles]

I have 6 of the mark series amps, Green stripe, Red stripe, Blue Stripe and a a IIC+ and a black dot mark III.. if they were vastly different they wouldn't have just swiped each version with just a magic marker swipe or a black dot or a + sign. The big difference in the IIC+ and the Mark III was the third channel. Mesa got noticeably different with the Mesa badging vs the Boogie badges. The Rectifier series,The lone star, Road King,Nomad, etc came later and did sound different... The stiletto was probably the most different being EL34 based shooting toward the Marshall tone. Even my newer Mark 5 EL84 based amp sits in my studio with the older mark III'S and IIC+ it too sounds really close even all these years later with totally different power El84 section/ tubes. The petrucci amp is a modern Mark amp and you can line up all the Mark series amps and NO one in the audience would ever know the difference and most guitar players blind folded couldn't pick them out one from the other especially with the transparent EVM 12L black shadow speaker or an MC-90 black shadow and maybe a bit of EQ adjusting. The IIC+ landed production in the right time to become the flagship vintage boogie. Thats when 80's music was huge and that amp was produced at the right time for the players who made it famous.... it didn't make them famous. I would argue a Mark III purple, red, blue or green stripe Mark III, Black dot could have been used by the players who made the IIC+ famous and those albums and concerts wouldn't have sounded any different. They just weren't available at the time those bands recorded those albums. They stopped the IIC+ when the mark III came into production. They stopped the III when the Mark IV started and so on with a little over lap....they are ALL great amps and tonally are the same with very subtle tweaks. Most of those bands stopped playing the IIC+ and went to the mark III when it came out because the sound was basically the same but the 3 had a third channel, everyone wanted that. it was the newest thing, a 3 channel amp. No need to re-issue it because they all sound the same with very subtle differences. Just my humble opinion.

 

[user 41014]

If sound is all we are going for then you don't need an amp. Put the signal in a box since "everyone" has gravitated that way. Signal in, any modeller out.

I have a red stripe DRG I've never bonded with. No magic. I've got every Mark up to the IV-A except the green which I've had. I'll take your blind shootout challenge between a Mark II and Mark V of any power section and put real money on it just as quick as I would sit down to a game of poker with you. Straight up not into any box.

Each amp I plug into inspires me to go down different paths and songs are selected by my fingers interacting with my brain, sometimes mood. Sound plays into the overall feel but it is a multi-sense experience on the guitar end of the signal chain. Post production recordings aren't apples to apples and at concerts I expect the magic to come from fingers thru a signal chain that inspires the player, not the listener. I'll take energy and emotion over tone and flawless reproduction.

The more I feel the music I'm playing the more I can lose myself in it and "take character" of the role in the song. A magic wand is not magic sitting on a shelf or in the hand of someone that does not feel it.

 

[robvoyles]

It was just an opinion. there was no challenge. just a statement. i'm glad you gave your opinion, if we all believed and felt the same, it would be a pretty boring world. cheers.

 

[mark0]

What do you think?

they did
v90, jp & or 7
and they all destroy the old cheap shitboxes you all love to “word worship” with phrases like “mid honk” & “vintage feel”
its called dial the amp, stop typing and get a proper right hand

C+ in house against all 3 ^ daily

i dont miss it when its off. its cool for “that thing” & has a touch more jump on the feel but…

-yeah the JP destroys it gainwise
-the v90 crushes any c+ or mark amp before it in Extreme mode for “that”
-the 7 is a perfect c+ sound AND feel regarding all that, they got it 100%

why u think C+, 3, & 4 prices are falling now below retail 7 new? because the 7 made it MOOT

have fun clinging to those ghosts and pumping vintage amp prices hoping the guys that made em retire or die. disgusting.

 

[mark0]

If sound is all we are going for then you don't need an amp. Put the signal in a box since "everyone" has gravitated that way. Signal in, any modeller out.

I have a red stripe DRG I've never bonded with. No magic. I've got every Mark up to the IV-A except the green which I've had. I'll take your blind shootout challenge between a Mark II and Mark V of any power section and put real money on it just as quick as I would sit down to a game of poker with you. Straight up not into any box.

Each amp I plug into inspires me to go down different paths and songs are selected by my fingers interacting with my brain, sometimes mood. Sound plays into the overall feel but it is a multi-sense experience on the guitar end of the signal chain. Post production recordings aren't apples to apples and at concerts I expect the magic to come from fingers thru a signal chain that inspires the player, not the listener. I'll take energy and emotion over tone and flawless reproduction.

The more I feel the music I'm playing the more I can lose myself in it and "take character" of the role in the song. A magic wand is not magic sitting on a shelf or in the hand of someone that does not feel it.

feel the same
wasnt aimed at u

 

[user 41014]

feel the same
wasnt aimed at u

No hurt feelings here. This was a fun exchange since all this banter won't stop Gibson from doing several reissues of "their" flagship amp for reissues.

Prices keep going down on all these old shitboxes for the same reason as stocks people drive to insane prices in a heated moment due to inertia - there is no where but down to go once the selling kicks off in earnest. Human nature is such that everyone one has to own it when it's going up (houses, TP, mesa amps) but no one wants to catch the falling knife or "call the bottom" until it has passed.

Gone are the days of people placing realistic values for realistic reasons.

I am happy people love the JP, V90, and VII. I love a lot of modern Mesa amps but when I was able to play and listen to about 10 Marks (not the VII) with a member on here the compression and orderly conduct washed out the Mark magic for me. I know this means easier to sit in a mix, easier to record and easier to do multichannel switching. But with love for the Mark II (B being the pinnacle) these later marks were dull, boring and non-inspiring. To me.

So keep selling the old shitboxes please because I'm seeing prices I haven't seen since pre-pandemic. I don't need crowd approval to know a early 80's Mark in working order is still worth $1000ish to me if they drop to $500 just cuz all the old amps are put out to pasture by the new kids on the block that need shiny shoes and fancy hats.

 

[rarebitusa]

Just one guys 2 cents.

I bought my IIC HR new... long before it became a thing. Sold my heavily modded Super Lead for it, mostly cause it was a true 2 chan amp. It was pretty meh until the "+" mod was done and it soldiered on as the only amp for many, many years. Then finally forked for a V:90 mostly because it had 3 chans and an actual "clean chan" that covered the live work better. Tonally it was so different, an amp tweakers dream. More amp GAS lead to a LSS, Stiletto and then a BAD. Each amp has "their thing" and depending on the gig or mood I will use what makes sense. The dilemma is choosing. Sadly I don't have a JP2C or a VII so I cannot comment on those.

But...

The IIC+ is a very, very different amp. Unique and truly amazing for what you can dial in. Live it certainly has it's drawbacks, the shared tone stack is good but less then optimal for quick versaility. But often will come full circle when I fire it up... cause it has this organic vibe that the others just don't, insane amount of gain too. I think if I referred to it as a $#!tbox it's feelings would be hurt it's treated me well over the years and I have respect for my elder amp. While I love Ch 3 on the V, it's IIC+ mode TBH doesn't come close IMHO to what the HR sounds like. It's just one specific wannabe mode of the IIC+, there is so much more to the amp.

Certain aspects of the IIC+ hype and folklore are true. You can certainly dial in a brutal aggressive tone with it... clarity that is hard to match. I do agree in part with @electric mayhem

the compression and orderly conduct washed out the Mark magic for me.

Yea compressed for sure, but the V:90 didn't wipe out the magic for me... it just enhanced the Mesa Mark experience.

But then I'm an outlier... I love the Stiletto

 

[user 41014]

Yea compressed for sure, but the V:90 didn't wipe out the magic for me... it just enhanced the Mesa Mark experience.

But then I'm an outlier... I love the Stiletto

To me this is the key- what inspires the player. A 120W Peavey tube amp did it for me for many years.

I'll take the original express any day over a newer mark for multi-channel swiss army but while a good aggressive punk is great I don't need death, thrash or anything a Mark IIB can't pull off. The newer offerings are just different tool boxes I don't need.

But I don't know about you being an outlier anymore. I don't hear all the whining (pun intended) about the stiletto anymore and I assume all the people expecting it to be something it wasn't have long ago ditched them. I love my duece thru recto trads it was designed to feed and the paired gain is amazing if you take it for what it is.

 

[rarebitusa]

I have 6 of the mark series amps, Green stripe, Red stripe, Blue Stripe and a a IIC+ and a black dot mark III..

nice... for a long while the III GAS was pretty bad... wanted to experience that integrated GEQ. The III's I played to my ears were indeed very similar sounding to the IIC+. Then the III prices jumped and other GAS took over, but the III GAS still lingers

To me this is the key- what inspires the player.

No doubt!!

I assume all the people expecting it to be something it wasn't have long ago ditched them. I love my duece thru recto trads it was designed to feed and the paired gain is amazing if you take it for what it is.

yea.. very true.

 

[domct203]

To me this is the key- what inspires the player. A 120W Peavey tube amp did it for me for many years.

Was it the VTM120? Wish I still had mine.

Dom

 

[user 41014]

Was it the VTM120? Wish I still had mine.

Dom

I haven't tried the VTM- it sounds like it must have been a good one. The bandit seems like a good candidate to play around with modding.

Mine was/is the Heritage VTX and I'm not sure it was 120W but it is around there. I tortured my parents at least 2 hours a day on that one with a small stone phaser, noisy but love the sweep, and graphic fuzz.

The kicker is I was clueless about tubes while running the Sylvania 387's. I got way over 10k hours on them and when a tube failed I parked the amp and bought my 1st mesa. I have 387's too hot for mesa fixed so one of these days I need to pull it back out.

My oldest IIB coli, one of the first coli's made came with them (415's) and that has always been my favorite coli. That makes me wonder if they are that much a difference to me. I want to put it up against the coli's that just got loop mods but I yanked the poly-ended filters out and mid way thru replacing decided to replace the EQ sliders that are all broke.

 

[funk49]

Was it the VTM120? Wish I still had mine.

Dom

I used to play one of those in the late 80's and loved it until it was ruined by my lead singer who decided to put his beer on the top of the amp while playing through it, then accidentally knocked it over, where it spilled through the vent on the top of the head.

Oddly enough, when I moved to CA a couple years later, I needed another amp and was just about ready to pull the trigger when I happened to stop into Nadine's in Hollywood and discovered a Boogie that had such amazing headroom when I played it, I just had to have it. I didn't know Boogies at the time, so I didn't know how to properly dial it in. I had no idea what it truly sounded like until I got home and started twiddling with it. I was trying to find a Mark III and couldn't find one in my price range, so this was my consolation prize.

Needless to say, I found out later when I called Boogie that Nadine's had unknowingly sold me a Mark IIC+ DRG, long chassis head in mint condition for around $1000.