Seeking tone for Pop Punk WITH BALLS

[jch39]

I use a three channel Dual Rectifier with a 4x12 mesa slant cabinet. I am wondering about 2 controls: the rectifier select (Vacuum Tubes or Silicon Diodes) and the power (spongy or bold).

I am looking for a great rhythm distortion that has great piercing leads. When my band plays live, I actually play more rhythm (I am the lead vocalist) but I also play all of the lead solos. Some bands/tones that I like are Bayside, Coheed and Cambria, Chiodos, Silverstein, AFI, etc. I just really don't like "brighter" tones but I also don't want a scratchy heavy metal tone. I would love a metal tone, just not one that sounds scratchy. Four Year Strong is a good example of a band I love, but I don't love their distortion. Bayside and Coheed and Cambria have awesome guitar tones.

I play an Epiphone Les Paul Standard. I usually use the bridge pickup.

Right now my settings are on Channel 3 with Modern switched:
Presence 1:00
Gain 1:00
Bass 1:00
Mid 12:00
Treble 12:00
I try to crank the output and master because I know these amps sound better when they are loud. Any advice on how loud I should have the Output?? or should I crank the Master?

I like the distortion, but I really just don't have a developed enough ear to be able to tell a big difference between spongy and bold, or vacuum tubes and silicon diodes. I can tell a slight difference, but I'm just not sure which one I like more. I guess if anyone could give their thoughts on what settings you recommend for the the rectifier select (Vacuum Tubes or Silicon Diodes) and the power (spongy or bold) that would be great. Thanks!!

 

[paytojt]

Bold, diodes, EL34 tubes. That'll sound good.

 

[coppa]

the diodes and spongy change the feel of the amp not so much the sound. imagine your amp responding slower to your pick attack

for rhythm keep it bold, and diodes

the master on each channel is there to balance the volume on the channels so they are the same when you switch between them

output is the one you want to crank, but not too much. if its getting close to 12:00 the power tubes will break up, and you loose some tightness in the tone.

as far as eq and gain turn off the lights and twist the knobs until it sounds good.

 

[Triple Cheeseburger]

i too am after a pop punk tone, i come from a hardcore background and all i can dial into my recto is that and scooped mid metal tones ahah. i bought a 10 band eq and played a bit with it and i have tried adding more mids and rolling back the gain a bit but im not too happy with it. any ideas would be great!

 

[YellowJacket]

I use a three channel Dual Rectifier with a 4x12 mesa slant cabinet. I am wondering about 2 controls: the rectifier select (Vacuum Tubes or Silicon Diodes) and the power (spongy or bold).

I am looking for a great rhythm distortion that has great piercing leads. When my band plays live, I actually play more rhythm (I am the lead vocalist) but I also play all of the lead solos. Some bands/tones that I like are Bayside, Coheed and Cambria, Chiodos, Silverstein, AFI, etc. I just really don't like "brighter" tones but I also don't want a scratchy heavy metal tone. I would love a metal tone, just not one that sounds scratchy. Four Year Strong is a good example of a band I love, but I don't love their distortion. Bayside and Coheed and Cambria have awesome guitar tones.

I play an Epiphone Les Paul Standard. I usually use the bridge pickup.

Right now my settings are on Channel 3 with Modern switched:
Presence 1:00
Gain 1:00
Bass 1:00
Mid 12:00
Treble 12:00
I try to crank the output and master because I know these amps sound better when they are loud. Any advice on how loud I should have the Output?? or should I crank the Master?

I like the distortion, but I really just don't have a developed enough ear to be able to tell a big difference between spongy and bold, or vacuum tubes and silicon diodes. I can tell a slight difference, but I'm just not sure which one I like more. I guess if anyone could give their thoughts on what settings you recommend for the the rectifier select (Vacuum Tubes or Silicon Diodes) and the power (spongy or bold) that would be great. Thanks!!

First of all, ditch the Epiphone for a Gibson Les Paul Standard. While the player is where good tone starts the next step is the guitar. Although one may think the pickup is everything, tone really starts with the acoustic sound of a guitar. The better built Gibson Les Pauls have better craftsmanship which makes for better sustain and a more rich and singing tone in general. When you hit the gas, it sounds round, crunchy, and full. I can get a pretty decent tone out of a Peavey Rage 158 with my LP.

Secondly, think about your 4 x 12. Speakers make a huge difference in tone. For a punk tone, I'd prefer to run two Celestion V30s and 2 G12m (or G12H) greenbacks in an X configuration. That will give you some juicy speaker breakup which can add warmth and thickness to your sound. The greenbacks have a great classic midrange purr which really complements the ice pick highs of the v30s. A mesa Traditional Rectocab (Stilleto cab) is probably the best speaker enclosure for a more midrang-ey punk tone and if you want a sound with a lot of amp distortion and clarity, a quartet of Celestion v30s (stock) is your best bet. My only complaints with the v30s are the ice pick highs and the super tightness of the cones. I find that you have to put quite a bit of power through them to hear that signature roar that is so pleasing to the ears.
Alternatively, just run a Marshall 1960a 4 x 12 with 4 G12T-75s. (stock) That will give you that AFI kind of crunch.

Optional: Probably a good idea to run a quartet of EL-34 tubes in your head. That will give you that brit crunch sound.

As for lead sound, I've heard many of the guys say to invest in a good OD pedal for leads since a dual has a pretty anemic lead tone. (I personally haven't found this, but I don't play metal, only hard rock) They say Maxon OD808 or Ibanez Tube Screamer.

i too am after a pop punk tone, i come from a hardcore background and all i can dial into my recto is that and scooped mid metal tones ahah. i bought a 10 band eq and played a bit with it and i have tried adding more mids and rolling back the gain a bit but im not too happy with it. any ideas would be great!

What guitar/ cab / amp combo are you running? Each component makes a huge difference in tone!

First of all, run the Recto on vintage mode, that will calm down the amp.

Secondly, run a traditional sized 4 x 12 instead of an oversized one. That really gets a much more mids active sound. Marshall 1960a is great for punk.

Thirdly, think about guitar / pickups. Gibson Les Paul, Gibson SG, or maybe a Fender Strat or a G&L Equivalent model is a worthwhile purchase. I really like the Seymour Duncan Custom Custom for a bridge pickup and the Alnico II Pro for the neck. While Duncans in general are hot, these ones are super warm and much more vintage.

 

[Turumbar82]

I would disagree that you should buy a Gibson Les Paul over your Epiphone, unless you have the money. The worst thing to hear when you ask, "how do I get this sound?" is someone telling that you have to spend 2k to get there. I've seen lots of groups perform with Epiphone guitars and get great sounds.

You could swap out pickups which would make a big difference and wouldn't cost that much but I think you can get the tone you like with the guitar and the amp you have already without buying new stuff.

I think for the pop punk kind of sound you don't need to have that much gain. I wouldn't have the gain more than noon. Personally, I would set channel 2 on modern, bold, diodes and then channel 3 on vintage, bold, diodes. Use channel 3 for rhythms and channel 2 for leads and have the gain and volume just a little more on channel 2. Put all your knobs at noon and hit your low E string. Then just adjust them from there. You shouldn't have to do any extreme turns to get this sound. It's not like death metal with the scooped mids.

 

[YellowJacket]

I would disagree that you should buy a Gibson Les Paul over your Epiphone, unless you have the money. The worst thing to hear when you ask, "how do I get this sound?" is someone telling that you have to spend 2k to get there. I've seen lots of groups perform with Epiphone guitars and get great sounds.

You could swap out pickups which would make a big difference and wouldn't cost that much but I think you can get the tone you like with the guitar and the amp you have already without buying new stuff.

I think for the pop punk kind of sound you don't need to have that much gain. I wouldn't have the gain more than noon. Personally, I would set channel 2 on modern, bold, diodes and then channel 3 on vintage, bold, diodes. Use channel 3 for rhythms and channel 2 for leads and have the gain and volume just a little more on channel 2. Put all your knobs at noon and hit your low E string. Then just adjust them from there. You shouldn't have to do any extreme turns to get this sound. It's not like death metal with the scooped mids.

I guess Epiphone's build quality has been going up again but I really found the guitars to be weaksauce when I was shopping for my first instrument. They played like a two by four and sounded dead at best. If the gear even sounds decent, it is the amp doing all the work. In my opinion, there are many mid / entry level electrics in the $500 range that sound and play far better. Godin guitars are one such example, schecter is another. I even prefer the Ibanez RG or a Yamaha Pacifica to an Epi. (The hollowbody and semi-hollow body models are far better for whatever reason)

I totally agree with your advice on the amp settings, they are a great starting point. Punk tone is much warmer and more mid range-y than metal, and it is significantly undergained by comparison. Still, the guitar forms the tone a lot. Active pickups on a metal axe just aren't as suitable for the style as passive ones with an Alico II or V magnet.

 

[Triple Cheeseburger]

i too am after a pop punk tone, i come from a hardcore background and all i can dial into my recto is that and scooped mid metal tones ahah. i bought a 10 band eq and played a bit with it and i have tried adding more mids and rolling back the gain a bit but im not too happy with it. any ideas would be great!

What guitar/ cab / amp combo are you running? Each component makes a huge difference in tone!

First of all, run the Recto on vintage mode, that will calm down the amp.

Secondly, run a traditional sized 4 x 12 instead of an oversized one. That really gets a much more mids active sound. Marshall 1960a is great for punk.

Thirdly, think about guitar / pickups. Gibson Les Paul, Gibson SG, or maybe a Fender Strat or a G&L Equivalent model is a worthwhile purchase. I really like the Seymour Duncan Custom Custom for a bridge pickup and the Alnico II Pro for the neck. While Duncans in general are hot, these ones are super warm and much more vintage.

Yeah sorry, i was using a gibson les paul DC (with p-90's) > visual sound route 66 overdrive (as a boost) > ISP decimator > dual recto (el-34, bold, tube rect) > mxr 10 band eq (added mids and a bit of higher freqs) > std. recto cab. mind you i was playing this in my house where i cant open her right up but i had some decent volume.

 

[YellowJacket]

Yeah sorry, i was using a gibson les paul DC (with p-90's) > visual sound route 66 overdrive (as a boost) > ISP decimator > dual recto (el-34, bold, tube rect) > mxr 10 band eq (added mids and a bit of higher freqs) > std. recto cab. mind you i was playing this in my house where i cant open her right up but i had some decent volume.

Les Paul with P-90s > Dual Rectifier > 4 x 12 should be enough for a convincing punk rock tone. Like other people have said, vintage mode and a bit less gain is much more punk as well as turning up the mids on the head. I have a Dual and a standard Rectocab which I run with a Les Paul Standard with Alnico V humbuckers. For punk, I'd run the gain about 12 o'clock, presence at a quarter, bass at ten, mids and treble at twelve. I use these settings with the red channel to vintage on my 2 channel dual and it does a great punk tone. We're talking much more mid heavy and undergained than metal.

If you have some spare cash, my biggest suggestion for you would be to investigate traditional sized 4 x 12s. (the STD rectocab is pretty dang scooped / boxy sounding and it has aggressive highs, at least in my experience) Look at the Stiletto cab but particularly pay attention to Marshalls offerings. I personally find that anything with a high breakup speaker like a G12T 75 or a G12m Greenback is better for this style. The Marshall 1960a cab can be found used for a single paycheck from a fastfood joint and with the economy the way it is, they should be going for peanuts since they are so common. The other cab I love for punk is the Marshall 1960ac or ax. The 1960ax has the awesome vintage grille cloth on the front and it is only a 100watt cab with low efficiency speakers so it has great speaker distortion at even low volumes. It has a super warm clean with nice breakup as well as a very creamy and warm distortion. The loose speakers really thicken up a less gainy tone and purr with this nice midrange crunch. (think Bad Religion here) The only complaint is that they have a farty low end, especially at high volumes. This isn't a super huge problem with punk since there is barely any bass in the sound anyway. Personally, I like the sound of a greenback and a v30 so I built a Thiele 2 x 12 with one of each and I've got a very versatile setup on my hands now. The only trouble is that the cab handles a max of 40watts so I can't use it without my yellow jackets in my Dual.

If you are simply sold on the tight roar of v30s, the Marshall 1960vintage or Mesa stiletto cabs may be what you are looking for. They really are the perfect cab for a more metal influenced punk sound without getting into the realm of heavy music. Unfortunately, I doubt these will be as inexpensive as the Marshall 1960a so you should definitely experiment with the gear you have before investing more money into diversifying. Only look at new gear as a final option.

 

[greg_moreira]

Does it actually have EL34 tubes in it, or are you just running it in EL34 mode(with the 6L6 tubes). If so.....switch it back to 6L6, run the silicon diodes, and bold setting(I know folks have gotten away with running their 6L6 tubes in EL34 mode....but I just wouldnt be comfortable reccomending it).

As already mentioned, the vacuum tubes VS diode is more of a feel thing. Vac tubes remind me of either recording digitally with a tiny bit of latency, thats almost perfect....but just enough delay that you notice that it feels different. Or....when you are playing through a compressor set slightly out of whack. The single notes pop and ring well...but thick cords sorta "feel" like they drag the amp down(when the compressor works harder and squashes the big sounds to a noticeable degree).

I wouldnt say it sounds like this....but it "feels" like this in a way. It seems to pop less, but not so much an audible tone difference. If you have EL34's....keep it in vacuum tube mode. its safer.

Moving on, if you really are using EL34's, I dont know how effective these settings will be, but try this. Keep the gain at noon at best in ch3 modern mode. Treble and presence at noon at best also(possibly more if your cab is on the dark side, but this is what works for me). Crank the mids......a good 3/4 of the way up or more. Then, close your eyes and adjust the bass until the sound cuts. You will dial out more than you think you would if looking at the dial.

This isnt a totally punk sound, but when live, Im more concerned with cutting through the mix than the actual tone. Chording and leads stand out, and it wont appear scratchy. You might not like it all by yourself, but I often find that what sounds good to my ear when Im just jamming doesnt fit in most mixes.

 

[halfdriven]

I’ve been playing in punk bands for years, 22 to be exact, and I use a 2 channel dual recto with a 5150 4x12

Presence = 9:00ish
Bass = 2:30 to 3:00 depending on guitar
Mid’s = 9ish, depending on mood
Treble = 12:30 to 1:00 again, depending on guitar

I use the Spongy and Vacuum Tube settings; I use 6L6’s on the 6L6 Bias Mode (don’t like El34’s) 6L6 have balls when I want to add little something something I use a Seymour Duncan Pick Up Booster on normal with about 6Dbs of gain, 8 after a few beers.

I use a Fender HM Strat, Gibson Les Paul, Ibanez RG470 and a Parker Fly Deluxe, 10 gage Ernie Balls and Seymour Duncan Full Shred pickups. This is just my crappy opinion and you can here a crappy version of this sound here http://unknownstuntman.com/media.html

 

[YellowJacket]

Haha, that is an awesome punk tone. So CLASSIC! Does your Peavey cab have sheffield speakers in it or did it come with Celestions? Are you running the red channel on vintage or modern? Just curious. Also, three o'clock for bass? I never run the bass over half on my 2 channel dual, and this is for a heavier nu-metal type tone. It could be the speakers and the pickups you are running in the guitars though.

 

[halfdriven]

my cab has the Sheffield's in it, in my opinion they sound better than the v30's in my recto 2x12 cab. and I'm runnin Red on Modern. I do have to turn the bass down a little on the 2x12, makes it fart out.