RKII, Roadster & MKIV

[Rocky]

Would you really consider dream theater metal??? I absolute love them, and they can get heavy, but I wouldn't classify anything they've done , except maybe Train of Thought and that's mostly rectos and lonestars, to be metal.

In the new guitar player John Petrucci calls Dream Theater "a heavy metal version of Yes"

 

[18&Life]

Would you really consider dream theater metal??? I absolute love them, and they can get heavy, but I wouldn't classify anything they've done , except maybe Train of Thought and that's mostly rectos and lonestars, to be metal.

In the new guitar player John Petrucci calls Dream Theater "a heavy metal version of Yes"

Good search ,Balboa :wink:

 

[scottkahn]

Would you really consider dream theater metal??? I absolute love them, and they can get heavy, but I wouldn't classify anything they've done , except maybe Train of Thought and that's mostly rectos and lonestars, to be metal.

Actually, Train of Thought was recorded with the original Road King. The Lone Star wasn't out yet when TOT was being recorded.

And if you don't think they're metal, then you must be listening to stuff that is so incredibly heavy that you no longer recognize where hard rock ends and metal begins. Pick up Systematic Chaos, their heaviest record since TOT. And specifically, they are Progressive Metal. Not Progressive Rock, but metal. They are far heavier than most Progressive Rock bands.

 

[NuSkoolTone]

Many years ago I demoed a Mark IV. I have to say that I thought it was
the most sterile, lifeless amp I had ever tried. Thick tone yes, but
despite an enormous amount of tweeking the controls, nothing came out
that spoke to me of the guitar's essence.

I can understand the first part about the Mark IV being "Sterile", it's a pretty dry amp and more "Forward" IMO vs. the "Swirly" type with big warm fuzzies. Though with a bit of delay thrown on in the loop it widens right up. I think the Recto stuff can be dialed in just like you said. The issue is how many people have you HEARD actually dial it in that way? That's probably the reason for the Recto "Bees in a jar" stereotype(s).

The 2nd comment I don't get at ALL though. You weren't getting the guitar's "essence"? Perhaps you had too much gain dialed in? IME the Mark IV is the most brutally HONEST amp I've ever owned. You can't hide a crappy guitar or sloppy playing behind it and that's why I love it. It's the first amp I've owned that told me CLEARLY which guitars should be on the chopping block were I to downsize.

 

[kissing]

Do you need to power the cab?
In other words, do you need 2 plugs when using a head and cab?
Do Mesa build 240V supplys?
My country uses 240V, so if not, any suggestions?

 

[123thefirst]

Many years ago I demoed a Mark IV. I have to say that I thought it was
the most sterile, lifeless amp I had ever tried. Thick tone yes, but
despite an enormous amount of tweeking the controls, nothing came out
that spoke to me of the guitar's essence.

The 2nd comment I don't get at ALL though. You weren't getting the guitar's "essence"? Perhaps you had too much gain dialed in? IME the Mark IV is the most brutally HONEST amp I've ever owned. You can't hide a crappy guitar or sloppy playing behind it and that's why I love it. It's the first amp I've owned that told me CLEARLY which guitars should be on the chopping block were I to downsize.

That could well be for a high gain tube amp (what you said about the amp being honest). The first amp had I really liked (and still have) is a Yamaha G50-112. It has an intimacy with the guitar and strings that is hard to describe and is based on a clean but full sound. When you add gain, you can still retain most everything. The amp seems to be a favorite also of Larry Carlton who keeps the full tone of the guitar mostly even when going for a hot gainy sound. I don't hear too many other players with that basis for tone any more.

What I remember about playing the Mark IV is a detached feeling. As if the amp had its own mind about what the guitar should sound like though maybe very subtlely. It could have been the harmonic structure and it could have been sub-optimal tubes. Or possibly that it just wasn't sensitive enough at lower picking volumes to respond willingly and convincingly to subtle articulations. For instance the difference in picking 6 inches from the bridge as opposed to 3 inches. I'm sure at some point I'll test drive one again at a place where it could really be evaluated fairly.

 

[Platypus]

Many years ago I demoed a Mark IV. I have to say that I thought it was
the most sterile, lifeless amp I had ever tried. Thick tone yes, but
despite an enormous amount of tweeking the controls, nothing came out
that spoke to me of the guitar's essence.

The 2nd comment I don't get at ALL though. You weren't getting the guitar's "essence"? Perhaps you had too much gain dialed in? IME the Mark IV is the most brutally HONEST amp I've ever owned. You can't hide a crappy guitar or sloppy playing behind it and that's why I love it. It's the first amp I've owned that told me CLEARLY which guitars should be on the chopping block were I to downsize.

That could well be for a high gain tube amp (what you said about the amp being honest). The first amp had I really liked (and still have) is a Yamaha G50-112. It has an intimacy with the guitar and strings that is hard to describe and is based on a clean but full sound. When you add gain, you can still retain most everything. The amp seems to be a favorite also of Larry Carlton who keeps the full tone of the guitar mostly even when going for a hot gainy sound. I don't hear too many other players with that basis for tone any more.

What I remember about playing the Mark IV is a detached feeling. As if the amp had its own mind about what the guitar should sound like though maybe very subtlely. It could have been the harmonic structure and it could have been sub-optimal tubes. Or possibly that it just wasn't sensitive enough at lower picking volumes to respond willingly and convincingly to subtle articulations. For instance the difference in picking 6 inches from the bridge as opposed to 3 inches. I'm sure at some point I'll test drive one again at a place where it could really be evaluated fairly.

I have to ask what guitar you were using when you demoed it and what cabinet. The *problem,* if you can call it that, is that there is almost too much variation with the Mark IV that if you don't give it the proper settings it really doesn't sound that impressive. In fact I made a thread similar to this after hearing all this hype about it.. just felt dead and lifeless to me, really didn't impress me.

Then I spent a few hours with it and started dialing things properly.. and the hype is all true. The other problem is that you can't just toggle this on and off and hear the difference.. it's a total package deal. You change one thing and you need to redial a few other settings.

I'm certainly not defending the amp, it's not for everyone, but I ran into the same thing you did until I gave it the proper time of day... now I'm hooked on it.

 

[123thefirst]

Okay. Interesting. The next time I have a few extra thousand dollars burning a hole in my pocket (price in Europe) I'll have to really check one out.

 

[Matterra]

Reading comments like those make me think how really really lucky I am.

Why? Because I tested the Mark IV at the Mesa/Boogie Store in Hollywood, where I didn't even touch the dials. I just plugged in, and the radical employee dialed my tone in. He had beautiful cleans on Rh1, smooth overdrive on Rh2, and he showed me how the LD channel could go from a smooth yet articulate kind of booster Rh2 sound, to a screaming all-out shred mode.

I'd also like to say that Rh2 is probably one of the biggest reasons I dug the amp, because I couldn't find another amp that could satisfy my metal needs, AND get that smooth fusion tone I dig. (Let's just say that the other amps I was looking at were upwards of $3000)

I am now in week 8 of my wait for my short-head to come in. Totally can't wait!

 

[ToneAddictJon]

Would you really consider dream theater metal??? I absolute love them, and they can get heavy, but I wouldn't classify anything they've done , except maybe Train of Thought and that's mostly rectos and lonestars, to be metal.

Actually, Train of Thought was recorded with the original Road King. The Lone Star wasn't out yet when TOT was being recorded.

And if you don't think they're metal, then you must be listening to stuff that is so incredibly heavy that you no longer recognize where hard rock ends and metal begins. Pick up Systematic Chaos, their heaviest record since TOT. And specifically, they are Progressive Metal. Not Progressive Rock, but metal. They are far heavier than most Progressive Rock bands.

Well I consider the Road King a Recto (same family), and I would consider Symphony X progressive metal, and dream theater progressive rock, just how I look at it, not saying it's right or wrong, just how I hear and view the genre. As far as metal goes I would say judas priest, slayer, slipknot, cradle of filth are metal, not dream theater, they can get heavy but they are not what I would consider metal. Just because Petrucci thinks his band sounds and is one thing, doesn't mean everyone else has to agree, like I said I love their music and completely respect them in every way, it's just not how I view the different genre's of music, it's a personally outlook, the same way some people would consider Evil Dead comedy and some consider it horror. What would you classify Led Zeppelin as? Folk, hard rock, metal, pop? It's all relative to the listener, not to how the band, or media, classifies themselves.

 

[NuSkoolTone]

Well I consider the Road King a Recto (same family), and I would consider Symphony X progressive metal, and dream theater progressive rock, just how I look at it, not saying it's right or wrong, just how I hear and view the genre.

Not to go off topic, but just saw Sym X this last weekend. KILLER Show! Romeo was great as always, and Russel is still my fav singer. Do wish Romeo would dump the line6 stuff and go back to boogie.. anyhow had to interject!

Carry on...

 

[MetalMatt]

I love arguments.

I never played a recto in my life prior to buying my Road King, My gear before was a Metal Master into a peavey with a Fender Squire and I though that sounded great.

When I first got my RK the gain was different for me, I could hear the strings and my playing rather than GAIN. I also got this Bloodbath style tone, LOVED IT!. After a few months that started to fade away.

In the middle of my RK ownership I started to dislike the way my amp sounded, It never sounded flabby or buzzy, just uninspiring. So I moved all my knobs to 0 (7:00) and started over. I also changed the guitar/pickups I was using. The change was for the better. I LOVE my amp again. I don't use alot of gain. I do use a boost for my rhythm and turn it off then I try to pull a solo out of my a$$ (it just sounds better to me that way).

I plan on getting 4x12 (traditional or the 80's metal grill). Down the road, a Mark IV, but that won't be for a while. My RK can do everything I want and more.

BTW
Recto = Black Metal. so evil, its scary.

RECTO LOVE!!!

 

[123thefirst]

Recto = Black Metal. so evil, its scary.

He he, I think I know what you mean. Still deeper and scarier is the
intense power and mystery of true spiritual experience which ultimately
comes from the source of good and beauty, and which everything else is an
evolutionary by-product. I'm hoping the new Road King will help bring the
expression of that connection within reach...

 

[scottkahn]

The beautiful thing about the Road King II is that even if you don't play metal, it's a gorgeous sounding amp for all styles of playing.

Set it for Spongy instead of Bold and you have an amazing vintage-sounding amp, especially if you pair the 2xEL-34 with the Brit setting on Ch 2, 2x6L6 with Tweed on Ch 1, and use the Raw and Vintage settings on Ch 3 and 4. If you're going for the vintage sound, try EL-34 with diode rectification instead of tube.

Really, you can do so much with the amp where people wouldn't even think you were playing something with Rectifier in its name.

I will never need another amp. Of course I'll buy other amps, but probably won't really need them .

 

[kingster911]

And that is why we're all in some way Ill with the Boogie bug scottkahn. I have a Road King II. Like it a lot, sometimes think I want something more, but then I realize it's a few things more. Not out of the amp, just a few other things: like a Soldano, a VHT, a Diezel...

 

[scottkahn]

I just want all the capabilities and real tubes from something that weighs less .