RKII, Roadster & MKIV

[kissing]

Wow guys! More amazing POVs. I can never thank you all enough.

I wonder how are the cleans in MKIV? I have heard countless compliments on the cleans of RK and Roadster. But can the clean of MKIV be challenging enough?

Head or combo? Thats another big question for me. For me, a head would definately mean one of the "seven wonders" sight (Thats how amp should look like to me, apologise combo fan.....)

Please guys, keep them coming......

 

[Platypus]

Wow guys! More amazing POVs. I can never thank you all enough.

I wonder how are the cleans in MKIV? I have heard countless compliments on the cleans of RK and Roadster. But can the clean of MKIV be challenging enough?

Head or combo? Thats another big question for me. For me, a head would definately mean one of the "seven wonders" sight (Thats how amp should look like to me, apologise combo fan.....)

Please guys, keep them coming......

Cleans are spectacular.. a bit tighter than a Blackface fender but right up there. They're also dead simple to dial in.

I would get the head personally but that's me.. it provides a much punchier feel to the sound in my opinion

 

[visualrocker69]

The cleans are nothing short of spectacular.

From the Mark IV manual:
"This mode was very carefully designed to provide great rhythm sounds, from the best of vintage, Fender-type (clean or solo) to a more modern, shimmering "funk rhythm" sound."

In other words, it's very flexible too! And (at least in my opinion) the most intuitive of the three channels in terms of dialing in.

About head v.s. combo... I'd say for a hobbyist like yourself, save yourself the trouble and get a combo.
There are difference sizes of heads... short/medium, even longer ones were made back in the day... differences are purely aesthetic, and a few knobs are moved from the front to the back panel as the dimensions get shorter... Then there are different combos...open back, closed back, thiele, 1x12, 2x12 vertical, 2x12 horizontal, 4x12 slanted, straight, etc... Different speakers... Celestion C90, Vintage 30, Electro Voice EVM 12L, and many, many more... :x
It can just become a HUGE headache when people like you and me are just looking to get a great tone out of our playing. So it's better to just get a combo for our purposes.

I'm actually selling mine because I'm in experiencing what I call "financial turbulance", college payments and all that... but I'll be sure to buy another one in no time! 8)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270142739007
Keep in mind, that combo is brand new! Why risk buying something that could have a dozen things wrong with it when you can buy mine at a great price, and guarenteed to be in 100% condition? :wink:

 

[oyster]

- You will notice that members of The Mark IV Mutual Admiration Society tend to be the most opinionated and vocal around here. But many others are the same way; their current amp is always "the best", the holy grail...others are no good or substandard. Interesting psychology. :idea:

- I own a roadster right now and it is a recto through and through, either you like that tone or you don't...same is true of a Mark or any other amp, either you like the fundamental tone or you don't. In my case, I recently tried a ton of amps, including special ordering a Mark IV. I really wanted to love it but I just didn't care for it (yes guys, I am good at tweaking amps and spent plenty of time with the Mark - generating a good tone was no problem but it wasn't the heaven and glory that some claim). Actually I ended up buying a Soldano HR50+ ...and haven't played my roadster since...

- NEVER buy an amp without hearing it first and preferably, being able to a/b it against other amps, to decide if it is really the tone you want. You can't change the core sound of an amp, no matter how many different speaker or tube combinations you try. Be sure, before you plunk down your hard earned dough.

- Always go for a head and cab, not a combo. Get either a recto 4x12 or recto 2x12. Then you can always change the cab as your tastes change, but can still retain the head (or vice versa).

Hope my $0.02 helps
Dave

 

[srf399]

Been playing professionally for over 30 years... I always get combos if possible... All they are is a head with a speaker built in. In most situations I have always used external speaker & cabs...usually 4x12's Don't let anyone tell you a combo isn't versatile...it will do EVERYTHING a head will do except you can also use the combo by itself as well... Jazz, country, practising at home... If you you're going to pack a cabinet around that weighs at least as much as a combo you may as well get the combo.

 

[ToneAddictJon]

+1 to oyster

No matter what amp you get, you have to be happy with it not everyone else, that's not saying don't listen to everyone's experiences, but take everything you read and translate into your needs, the tone your after, what you'll want out of an amp now vs what you may need in the future.

I personally like head and cab setups, and prefer 1x12 cabs over bigger ones (they sound more focused to me), but I also gig a lot and need the portability of a head/cab with adding more speakers depending on the venue.

I also prefer just a few fx so I use a couple of trusty pedals vs using a multi fx rack unit.

Mark IV vs Recto will be a constant struggle between worlds, and they have 2 very different tonalities, I own both and love both, the cleans on both are excellent, channel 2 on the Mark IV is more of a classic rhythm channel, not too much gain but enough for some killer jazz/blues stuff, channel 3 on the Mark IV is the lead channel and can get very heavy as a rhythm channel with the geq. Channel 2 and 3 on the Recto can be insanely heavy and sound much more aggressive than the Mark IV (imo) and can do everything from low gain rhythm to supreme melt your face distortion and a sweet lead tone (different than the IV's not necessarily better or worse).

Both have a lot in common and the Roadster has 4 independent channels with the lonestar cleans and a killer reverb in it too. Good luck.

 

[Machine Gun]

I think ibanez4life SZ! really hit it on the head with his post. I don't believe the rectos are heavier sounding than the Mark IV or vice versa. It all boils down to personal preference. I have owned both and have extensive experience with the Mark IV at stage volumes. It simply can get brutal, more brutal than a recto in some peoples opinion just because it doesn't have the fizz. Just tight agressive gain which is what I'm personally after.

I plan on getting another Mark IV soon. When I did own one, I loved my tone so much that I rarely changed it for different songs, even though it is a very versatile amp!

 

[visualrocker69]

I plan on getting another Mark IV soon. When I did own one, I loved my tone so much that I rarely changed it for different songs, even though it is a very versatile amp!

Hungry? Why wait?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270142739007

 

[alex1fly]

I was doing the Roadster vs MKIV thing too. I wish I'd gotten a Mark IV. It seems like the Roadster tries to do too many things. Maybe I just prefer MKIV distortion to recto distortion.

However, I managed to balance out the Roadster and its distortion with the use of a Seymour Duncan Jazz HB in the bridge of my les paul. Low output pickups may be the way to go if you want to mellow out the extreme high end and fizzle that is characteristic of the rectifier series.

I'd listen to clips of both. The Mark IV controls make it seem daunting but you can get a lot more useable tones. I just know that I'll never use the extreme high end, extended bass, and grinding gain that the rectifier series is known for; I prefer clear, full distorted tones and I've had trouble (with the exception of the SD Jazz) getting the Roadster to produce these tones. Again though, I've only had the amp for 5 or 6 months and there's a learning curve with all the Mesas

Plus it seems like a lot more people switch TO Mark IVs from rectos and such than vice versa, that has to be for good reason...

 

[NuSkoolTone]

Right now I'm quite happy with my Mark IV.

I think a RKII would round out the entire spectrum for "Boogie" Tone. I'm still learning the Mark IV, and won't be looking for quite a while, though when the extra scratch is around burning a hole in my pocket. A RKII could be in my future as a studio amp. (Just too heavy I'd think.

About the combo debate: srf399 has a valid point, though IMO it depends on how heavy that combo becomes! Personally I'd rather have a head and small cab after a certain wieght. It's been commented here that most prefer the Mark IV as a head because the combo seems to not sound as good as a separate cab. I have the short head and could only imagine how heavy the combo would be!

 

[siggy14]

I dont have an over compressed fizzy loose harsh tone with my recto, but then again I know how to EQ and amp.

And if the Mark IV's where so great why do they not fly off the shelves? Even LOG has switched away from them!

I have nothing against the Mark IV's, And I will eventually add one to my line up. i am just tired of the snobby attitude from Mark IV owners. If you dont like a recto, that is fine, just say so and shut up, but stop putting down the recto's because you cant either EQ it, or it is just not to your liking!

Bah, have fun with your loose, harsh, fizzy, overcompressed recto tone that can be demo'd in any guitar store in the nation, while the rest of us are in our esoteric, elitist world of focused, creamy, smooth TONE HEAVEN with our Mark IV's. :evil:

And all it takes is a GEQ mid scoop to get as brutal as you guys, so don't flatter yourselves. :wink:

 

[visualrocker69]

Way to overreact to something that was said in jest.

And if the Mark IV's where so great why do they not fly off the shelves?

Hmmm it couldn't have anything to do with marketing, CAN IT? That's like saying, "If Mesa/Boogie is soooooooo superior to Marshall, why do like 80% of pro guitarists use Marshall?"

Even LOG has switched away from them!

They have? I haven't heard anything about it. And so what? John Petrucci just switched back to the Mark series, almost EXCLUSIVELY using the Mark IV on Systematic Chaos. DT is way bigger than LOG! :twisted:

I have nothing against the Mark IV's, And I will eventually add one to my line up. i am just tired of the snobby attitude from Mark IV owners. If you dont like a recto, that is fine, just say so and shut up, but stop putting down the recto's because you cant either EQ it, or it is just not to your liking!

Puh-LEASE. If we can EQ Mark IV's, we can EQ just about anything. Rectos are much more intuitive, tone-wise. Maybe the issue is that we're just more sophisticated and have higher, more audiophile-esque standards? I mean come on, even some Recto players who swear by their two channel rectos are also "putting down" the current 3 channel model as fizzmatic. So what does that say?

Btw - I actually happen to like the rectos for rhythm. But they'll never be as tight as a Mark IV.

 

[alex1fly]

Plus man Boogies take a while to learn how to EQ, don't put people down because they haven't put a good chunk of time in getting to know the amps at loud volumes (especially the ones they don't have).

+1 on the weight issues. My Roadster head is 50lbs and my 2x12 cab is 50lbs... any more weight and I wouldn't be able to move my amp around (or up and down the stairs) I think head and cab is the way to go. You may have to make one more trip or bring one more friend along :roll:

 

[Johnson]

+1 siggy! Defend our Recto honor :lol: In all seriousness, I haven't spent enough time with the mark series amps to make a qualified opinion on one. That being said, I hope that the people who are making strong opinions against recto's (or marks) have spent some serious time with the amp in question, and not just rehashing what has been said by others. Obviously, both amps are great and have both been used by countless recording artists. I personally am happy with the lead and rhythm tones that I get with my DR (though admittedly I am not a fan of the clean tones). But at the same time I am sure that if I got the chance to spend some time with a mark4, I could find "my sound" as well.

 

[visualrocker69]

But you have DR #394 LOL :lol: of course you like it!

 

[Johnson]

True, but it is not my first Recto :wink:

 

[ToneAddictJon]

.......Puh-LEASE. If we can EQ Mark IV's, we can EQ just about anything. Rectos are much more intuitive, tone-wise. Maybe the issue is that we're just more sophisticated and have higher, more audiophile-esque standards? I mean come on, even some Recto players who swear by their two channel rectos are also "putting down" the current 3 channel model as fizzmatic. So what does that say?

Btw - I actually happen to like the rectos for rhythm. But they'll never be as tight as a Mark IV.

I actually found my Recto harder to dial in than my Mark IV, but I love them both 8)

 

[Accio Recto]

I had a guy at a store here in Austin say about the Mk IV, "It's not really a metal amp. It's more for jazz."

I oughta bring over the new Dream Theater CD and set him straight!

 

[ToneAddictJon]

Would you really consider dream theater metal??? I absolute love them, and they can get heavy, but I wouldn't classify anything they've done , except maybe Train of Thought and that's mostly rectos and lonestars, to be metal.

 

[123thefirst]

In regard to the RK/Recto being fizzy with a hyped high end at very high
gain settings, all you need to do is roll down the volume pot a bit and the
tone becomes mellow and normal. The RK just gives you more...

Many years ago I demoed a Mark IV. I have to say that I thought it was
the most sterile, lifeless amp I had ever tried. Thick tone yes, but
despite an enormous amount of tweeking the controls, nothing came out
that spoke to me of the guitar's essence. Granted I needed to play at
reasonable levels in the store and what I search for in tone and
playability can be very subtle. I decided that day that Mesa had nothing
for me.

I normally wouldn't make such a negative remark but the unbalanced
remarks in this thread warrant it. And by the way, I doubt any one
contributing here has more experience or technical knowledge with
audiophile equipment. And few I venture to guess have spent as many
many hours playing.

It was actually Mesa's advertizing the full range of gain in the Recto
Pre-amp about 2000 that caught my attention again and once I started
using the preamp I was hooked. The Recto Pre-amp is really more
representative of the Road King I think than the Recto, especially
because of the clean channel with clean, fat and brit modes.

Another aspect of the RK/Recto that I think people fixate on is the
over-sized, sealed cabinet. That by nature will direct your preferences
to a heavy use of high gain and aggressive sound. You may need a
sweeter, more spacious sounding open back cabinet to get into more
general realms of guitar tone in my opinion.