Rectoverb 25 Combo vs Roadster Combo

[screamingdaisy]

I'm thinking of purging a bunch of unused gear and consolidating into a pair of amps; a head/cab, and a combo.

The Roadster has become the centre of my sound. For a long time I thought I was a Mark convert, but then I'd plug the Roadster in again and realize where home actually was. I thought about holding onto the Mark V because it sounds great when multi-tracked with a Recto, but realistically I'm not going to be making copious recordings at home so it's a bit of a waste. The ED is outstanding but I rarely get the opportunity to use it. I rarely play live anymore and when I do the Roadster or Mark was a safer bet due to the less touchy master volume.

So... everything in the signature except the Roadster, 2x12 and 4x12 (and pedals)... gone.

Plan A - Rectoverb 25 Combo

Pros
- It's small and lightweight. More grab 'n go.
- Does the Recto thing, but will give me a different take on it.
- Half the price of a Roadster combo.
- Might be cool used in stereo with the Roadster I have now.

Cons
- The clean channel... I don't particularly need it and I'd rather have two high gain channels.
- No 6L6s. Not 100w.
- 1x12.

Plan B - Roadster Combo

Pros
- Everything I need except the guitar in one box.
- Having a second Roadster would be a sweet stereo rig.
- It sounds like a Roadster.
- 2x12

Cons
- It's 100 lbs.
- Cost.
- It's a lot of money for what is essentially a redundant purchase.


Random thought... the Roadster slaved into my 2 channel Recto is an effective stereo setup. Cost $0. Buying a second 2x12 will give me the same basic setup plan B, only with two heads/cabs instead of a combo.

Another random thought... I wonder how the pairing of a 6L6 amp and EL84 amp will sound in stereo vs a pair of 6L6 amps... ?

Anyway, I'm just putting some thoughts on virtual paper as I think my way through this. Feel free to comment, I'm going to go sleep on this for awhile.

 

[Given To Fly]

I like Plan B. I'll address the Cons though:
1. The Roadster Combo actually weighs 103 lbs. This can actually work to your advantage though. (See below.)
2. If you buy new, a Roadster Combo is expensive. If you buy used, especially right now, there are some deals to be had! :shock:
3. Redundancy is not always bad when running two amps in stereo. They will react the same which makes using FX much easier. Plus, its pretty easy to make two Roadsters sound different if that is the effect you want.

 

[LithiumZero]

too bad you already unloaded the Mark V. I would have swapped my roadster 2x12 combo for it (depending on where you live of course)

 

[screamingdaisy]

too bad you already unloaded the Mark V. I would have swapped my roadster 2x12 combo for it (depending on where you live of course)

I haven't sold any amps yet, but unless you happen to live near Edmonton the shipping is likely prohibitive.

I unloaded a bunch of unused effects the other day and walked out with a Telecaster (which sounds sick through a Recto). Some of them I held onto for a long time because they were "special", even though I never used them. It felt nice to finally unload them and I don't regret letting them go. Now I'm thinking about purging some amps/guitars that aren't being used.

 

[LithiumZero]

Not even close. You may as well be in Japan

 

[screamingdaisy]

[still thinking out loud]

Two Rectoverb 25 combos would also be a pretty sweet rig. Relatively light, relatively portable.

Of course, that idea would probably cost more than a Roadster combo.

[/thinking out loud]

 

[knotts]

Why not consider getting a V:35 by selling the Mark V. You get EL84's and 6L6's, Mark and Recto pairing and a little more portability. I guess it would depend on more of your style of music and tone.

I dig the idea of plan B too. I can't imagine a chunkier sound than that, but it might be better to have different amps paired to hit a different part of the tonal spectrum. You can probably get a good feel for testing it out with your 2x12 and 4x12 cabs.

I'm glad you're digging the tele. It's been on my list for a while. Good luck.

 

[screamingdaisy]

I'm not really looking to get a Mark 25/35 at this time.

With the Mark V I struggle to get what I'll call a 'modern hard rock' sound out of it that I dig. It's not that it won't do modern hard rock, but I want more of a sludgy sound and that's where the Recto excels.

With the Mark V I wind up either dialling in thrash or 70s rock sounds. Both are killer, but it's no longer where I'm at.

I've tried pairing the Mark and Recto and while they sound incredible together it's not the sound I'm looking for.

The Recto and ElectraDyne paired I really dig.

Truthfully, I'm probably not going to sell the ED.

 

[YellowJacket]

This is a really interesting thread. I often find that the sounds I like recorded are very different than what I actually enjoy playing or gigging with in person.

I've been borrowing my friend's Mark V and I really like the lead tone, the tightness, and the feel. I still prefer the chainsaw grind of a recto but somehow, it just sounds way better when someone else plays it. The Mark V just feels right to me, which is a strange thing.

For you, I can appreciate not wanting excess gear. Do you think your Roaster love is just a phase like you told me a few years back? I can definitely appreciate feeling like you 'click' with a piece of gear or like you don't 'click' with it. Is it the voice of the Mark V you don't like?

If I was in your shoes, I'd be inclined to have a portable recto and a big one. Mostly because of the space thing. If you can pair a Roaster with the Electra Dyne for stereo tones, you have that ground covered. For recordings, you can always multi track the Roadster.

 

[screamingdaisy]

For you, I can appreciate not wanting excess gear. Do you think your Roaster love is just a phase like you told me a few years back? I can definitely appreciate feeling like you 'click' with a piece of gear or like you don't 'click' with it.

The Roadster has floated in and out of favour over the years. A big part of the problem is I've been playing a Recto for so long that I developed all sorts of notions about how it should sound and how to dial it in. I got stuck in several ruts and kept recycling the same old settings that weren't what I was looking for anymore.

The Mark gave me a break. When I got tired of the Recto I'd play the Mark, and when I got tired of the Mark I'd go back to the Recto.

A few months ago I made some changes to my approach to the Recto, ignored all my little rules, started twisting knobs and started to nail the feel I'm looking for. At the time I was super happy with the Mark and generally unhappy with either Recto, but then I made those changes and something finally clicked.

I'm not a big Soundgarden fan, but 3-4 months ago I noticed the similarities in taste in gear and decided to learn some of their songs, copy some of their sounds and see what I could learn from them. That's when things all started to fall together.

Is it the voice of the Mark V you don't like?

The feel. It sounds great but I can't get it to feel right. It also doesn't react to me riding the volume/tone controls the way the Recto does, and the Recto has more consistency from channel to channel without the big tonal shifts the Mark has between channels.

If I was in your shoes, I'd be inclined to have a portable recto and a big one. Mostly because of the space thing. If you can pair a Roaster with the Electra Dyne for stereo tones, you have that ground covered.

Still liking about it...

 

[YellowJacket]

The Roadster has floated in and out of favour over the years. A big part of the problem is I've been playing a Recto for so long that I developed all sorts of notions about how it should sound and how to dial it in. I got stuck in several ruts and kept recycling the same old settings that weren't what I was looking for anymore.

The Mark gave me a break. When I got tired of the Recto I'd play the Mark, and when I got tired of the Mark I'd go back to the Recto.

A few months ago I made some changes to my approach to the Recto, ignored all my little rules, started twisting knobs and started to nail the feel I'm looking for. At the time I was super happy with the Mark and generally unhappy with either Recto, but then I made those changes and something finally clicked.

I'm not a big Soundgarden fan, but 3-4 months ago I noticed the similarities in taste in gear and decided to learn some of their songs, copy some of their sounds and see what I could learn from them. That's when things all started to fall together.

Isn't this the way? EQing with our eyes instead of our ears! It's great that you've found your 'tone'. My tastes keep changing so for me, it's like I keep trying to hit a moving target. For the longest time the sound I wanted was a Les Paul into a Recto or into the Electra Dyne. Then I started playing in a metal band and bought my first superstrat. This changes everything.

The feel. It sounds great but I can't get it to feel right. It also doesn't react to me riding the volume/tone controls the way the Recto does, and the Recto has more consistency from channel to channel without the big tonal shifts the Mark has between channels.

Very interesting. Both the Recto and the Electra Dyne are surprisingly dynamic amplifiers which is probably the most endearing characteristic of both. The rich, detailed mids are also great. The overall chainsaw timbre is complex and quite nice.
Strangely enough, I have the opposite problem where I prefer the tone of the Recto but I really like the feel of the Mark V. Over the last 6 or 7 years I've been practicing guitar more and I become more and more a lead player so I prefer the compressed, firehose of gain for solos. I also like the clarity, crispness, and tightness of the Mark V.

Still liking about it...

I still don't have a lunchbox amp but I like the idea of a small format piece of gear for situations where volume is not needed. I hope you figure out what is best for you ^_^

 

[bandit2013]

I am sort of in your boat on a similar ride with the amps I have. I do like the Mark V but favor the Roadster and the RA100. I feel I can do far more with either the RA100 or the Roadster than with the Mark V. Almost as if it is sterile and not responsive like the Rectifier or RA. At first I believed I could not be happy with an amp with common sounding channels. I was so wrong. I would agree, some what hard to switch between channels and have a similar or compatible tone with some slight changes. It is possible if you use CH2 crunch and CH3 IIC+. I would rather be able to switch between Extreme and Mark IV tones. Have to consider what the Mark V really is, a novelty amp (and I do not mean that in a bad way either). I am actually taking a step in a different direction and awaiting a Stiletto Deuce Stage I. I could have gotten the Stage II but I want something more classic than modern.

As for my amps, I am pleased with what I have. I do use the Mark V sometimes and enjoy it when I do. The RA100 and Roadster keep me occupied. And if I get board with that, I can jump on the bass or play the drums, or just play unplugged (acoustic).

Convince yourself you will not miss the amps you are willing to part with. Beside the Recto-verb may be easier to carry. A Roadster Combo would also be cool too.

 

[screamingdaisy]

Isn't this the way? EQing with our eyes instead of our ears! It's great that you've found your 'tone'. My tastes keep changing so for me, it's like I keep trying to hit a moving target. For the longest time the sound I wanted was a Les Paul into a Recto or into the Electra Dyne. Then I started playing in a metal band and bought my first superstrat. This changes everything.

I've always struggled to get the right mix of vintage vs modern. At first I had a Recto and a Super Strat w/ Super Distortion. Switched to EMGs and went full on Metallica for awhile. Loved the sound, but I struggled to play classic songs that didn't sound like a Metallica cover of a classic song.

Then I went full retro. Orange OD-120, full stack, P90s, fuzz boxes, UniVibe, tape delay. Loved the sound, but I struggled to play any modern heavy songs that didn't sound like a Kyuss cover of a modern heavy song.

The Mark V is cool because it can pull off authentic 70s Rock sounds and modern heavy rock/metal sounds. The Recto is cool because it can pull off 70s Rock with a modern heavy rock sound.

Very interesting. Both the Recto and the Electra Dyne are surprisingly dynamic amplifiers which is probably the most endearing characteristic of both. The rich, detailed mids are also great. The overall chainsaw timbre is complex and quite nice.

I like that I can roll off my volume and clean up the Recto, yet it will still have chainsaw grind (just less of it). It's like a good fuzz that will still produce some square wave clipping without a ****-tonne of compression.

With the Mark the gain and distortion are tied to each other. If I want a lot of distortion I have to have a lot of compression, and I can't really achieve the uncompressed yet distorted sound the Recto is capable of.

Strangely enough, I have the opposite problem where I prefer the tone of the Recto but I really like the feel of the Mark V. Over the last 6 or 7 years I've been practicing guitar more and I become more and more a lead player so I prefer the compressed, firehose of gain for solos. I also like the clarity, crispness, and tightness of the Mark V.

I went the opposite way. My leads got better when I went more raw and less compressed. More Slash, less Hammett.

I still don't have a lunchbox amp but I like the idea of a small format piece of gear for situations where volume is not needed. I hope you figure out what is best for you ^_^

I'm fortunate in that I don't think I can go wrong with either decision. I'm stuck trying to choose between two right answers.

 

[screamingdaisy]

It is possible if you use CH2 crunch and CH3 IIC+. I would rather be able to switch between Extreme and Mark IV tones.

In my case I tend to use Crunch for everything. I have IIC+ set up for lead, but I tend to just use Crunch for that too.

Convince yourself you will not miss the amps you are willing to part with. Beside the Recto-verb may be easier to carry. A Roadster Combo would also be cool too.

I won't miss them. I don't dwell in the past. My issue is overcoming inertia. An object at rest tends to stay at rest unless acted upon by an outside force.

 

[LesPaul70]

Is the combo format a must?

I'm asking because - if I were in your shoes (and sticking to Rectos only) - the combination that sounds the most interesting to me would be your Rev F Rec + your current Roadster. They cater the same core Recto sound but in very different flavors; their power is basically the same, so they can match volumes easily. Get a second (possibly different) 2x12 cab, and you have the freedom of mixing and matching them in any combination you like (2 heads + 2 cabs, 1 head + 1 cab, 1 head + 2 cabs). Used in a stereo setup, they could be dialed to complement each other nicely.

The ROV 25 combo is an interesting alternative and a nice amp in its own right, plus more portable than any other of your options. You could have hours and hours of fun with it alone. But it would be a poor match in a stereo setup, just not enough oomph...

So what's better than a Roadster, yes, that's right, two Roadsters. And they certainly offer enough versatility so you can dial them to sound completely different, especially if you put EL-34s in one. But do you love the Roadster flavor of the Recto sound enough to desire nothing else? And then the 2x12 combo...well, it's nice if it will just stay in your home. But if you ever plan to gig it, you're going to need some really big and burly roadies. (But then, you would still have the Roadster head, which would be easier to lug around.)

Personally, I would get a second head + 2x12 setup rather than a combo. Whether that head would be one that you currently own or a new one is up to you. I think you have some killer heads already but I can understand the lure of trying something new/different.

 

[YellowJacket]

I've always struggled to get the right mix of vintage vs modern. At first I had a Recto and a Super Strat w/ Super Distortion. Switched to EMGs and went full on Metallica for awhile. Loved the sound, but I struggled to play classic songs that didn't sound like a Metallica cover of a classic song.

Then I went full retro. Orange OD-120, full stack, P90s, fuzz boxes, UniVibe, tape delay. Loved the sound, but I struggled to play any modern heavy songs that didn't sound like a Kyuss cover of a modern heavy song.

The Mark V is cool because it can pull off authentic 70s Rock sounds and modern heavy rock/metal sounds. The Recto is cool because it can pull off 70s Rock with a modern heavy rock sound.

I love the wide, modern voice of the recto. It's really awesome how dynamic it is for a high gain head. In theory, a more responsive instrument allows a player to create more interesting music.

I find the 'evolution' of a player to be a fascinating thing. Diehard Gibson guys switching to fender. Diehard Marshall guys switching to Mesa, etc etc. I think I always liked chainsaw grind as well as a vocal, midrange bark. At least until I joined a metal band. I have yet to dabble with single coil pickups and P90s but I'm sure that will happen at some point.

I like that I can roll off my volume and clean up the Recto, yet it will still have chainsaw grind (just less of it). It's like a good fuzz that will still produce some square wave clipping without a sh!t of compression.

With the Mark the gain and distortion are tied to each other. If I want a lot of distortion I have to have a lot of compression, and I can't really achieve the uncompressed yet distorted sound the Recto is capable of.

Ah, I see. The compression makes the notes feel thick, like they leap off of the fingerboard. It's helpful if you wish to impose string-like (cello like) phrasing to playing a guitar. The rhythmic precision is also great. Personally, I generally prefer a more dynamic sound for rhythm work and even leads sometimes; but when it comes to soloing, I want compression. Somehow the Electra Dyne seems to have some of the compression of the Mark V but at the same time, it's even more dynamic than the recto.

I went the opposite way. My leads got better when I went more raw and less compressed. More Slash, less Hammett.

This is so odd. I think the feel of an amp definitely impacts the decisions a player makes while playing. I have felt like I'm always fighting with the Recto when I try to play leads or solos. It gets lost in the mix and I feel like I have to play so hard on the strings to get the sort of tone I want. It induces tension and makes phrasing incredibly problematic, at least for how I wish to approach guitar. The Mark V, by comparison, is thick, fluid, cutting, and very clean. It just does what I expect it to and I feel like I am playing my best when I am playing one. This bugs me since the rhythm tone is grainy to my ears and I much prefer a more detailed midrange.

When it comes to Metallica, I find little of musical interest in their music, at least beyond their status as THE seminal thrash metal band. Historically, they are important but I find them all to be middling and semi-creative musicians. That being said, I tend to associate the Mark series tone with the work of John Petrucci. i.e. Someone who excels at a highly precise and skilled approach to the guitar. He's really a great antithesis to someone like Slash who has such fantastic feel and expression in his playing.

What I find odd about gear for myself is my propensity to prefer different tones recorded than what I like to play on myself. E.G. I prefer Petrucci's Road King tones to his Mark 2C+, IV, or V tones. I dislike Metallica's tone from any of their albums that are actually worth listening to. When it comes to recorded tones, I prefer a Les Paul with a Recto, or any amp from that lineage. Then it comes to playing, I'm finding I far more enjoy a superstrat with a Mark V. (The pickups are Bare Knuckle Juggernauts, which are AMAZING, at least for what I do. Once again, I HATED almost all the recorded demos of the Juggernauts but I got them anyway and instantly loved actually playing on them.)

I'm fortunate in that I don't think I can go wrong with either decision. I'm stuck trying to choose between two right answers.

This sounds like a great problem to have. Personally, I would not be surprised if my next amp is not a Mesa, but I do intend to hold onto the ones I have. The Electra Dyne, in particular, is an incredible gem.

 

[screamingdaisy]

Is the combo format a must?

I want something that's self contained.

I'm asking because - if I were in your shoes (and sticking to Rectos only) - the combination that sounds the most interesting to me would be your Rev F Rec + your current Roadster. They cater the same core Recto sound but in very different flavors; their power is basically the same, so they can match volumes easily. Get a second (possibly different) 2x12 cab, and you have the freedom of mixing and matching them in any combination you like (2 heads + 2 cabs, 1 head + 1 cab, 1 head + 2 cabs). Used in a stereo setup, they could be dialed to complement each other nicely.

The drawback to the Ref F in stereo is no clean channel and no raw mode. It's fine when going all out but when I want to back things down it ties my hands.

I have experimented with slaving the Roadster into the Ref F's power amp. I'm less limited since both heads are using the Roadsters 4 channels and the results are thicker at any volume.

On that note, maybe I should keep the Rev F, get a RoV:25 combo (for portability) and 2x12 cab (for the Rev F)...

The ROV 25 combo is an interesting alternative and a nice amp in its own right, plus more portable than any other of your options. You could have hours and hours of fun with it alone. But it would be a poor match in a stereo setup, just not enough oomph...

The thought here was wet/dry. The Roadster provides the dry foundation and the delay is fed through the RoV:25. The wet channel would only need enough power to make the repeats audible and I've read that using a smaller 1x12 is easier to blend/mix live since its naturally thinner than the dry tone.

The other consideration is I'm typically using the Roadster in 50w with the variac on... so it's only a 30-35w amp at that point.

So what's better than a Roadster, yes, that's right, two Roadsters. And they certainly offer enough versatility so you can dial them to sound completely different, especially if you put EL-34s in one. But do you love the Roadster flavor of the Recto sound enough to desire nothing else? And then the 2x12 combo...well, it's nice if it will just stay in your home. But if you ever plan to gig it, you're going to need some really big and burly roadies. (But then, you would still have the Roadster head, which would be easier to lug around.)

Moving it isn't an issue. I have big and burly covered.

 

[screamingdaisy]

Ah, I see. The compression makes the notes feel thick, like they leap off of the fingerboard.

Which is my problem... when I back the compression down the notes feel (relatively) thin and I have to drag them off the fretboard. I love the Mark when it's just screamin', it's those dialled-down-yet-still-high-gain sounds I struggle with.

It's helpful if you wish to impose string-like (cello like) phrasing to playing a guitar Personally, I generally prefer a more dynamic sound for rhythm work and even leads sometimes; but when it comes to soloing, I want compression. Somehow the Electra Dyne seems to have some of the compression of the Mark V but at the same time, it's even more dynamic than the recto.

50w + variac. I starve the Roadster for headroom keep the gain low and turn the amp up too loud. It induces a different kind of compression. If I need a little bit more Mesa's Tone-Burst gives me a subtle boost in drive, compression and presence. If I need a lot more I use a Flux-Drive. Stack both into vintage high gain and it's like I'm playing a harpsichord.

In the case of the ED, I theorize that although it has less gain than the Recto it also has no cold clipping stage (that I'm aware of), so the gain that the ED does have can be turned up higher without turning to mush like a Recto will past a certain point.

This is so odd. I think the feel of an amp definitely impacts the decisions a player makes while playing. I have felt like I'm always fighting with the Recto when I try to play leads or solos. It gets lost in the mix and I feel like I have to play so hard on the strings to get the sort of tone I want.

This is how I used to feel when soloing through a Recto. 6 months ago I would've told anyone that a Recto is a terrible lead amp.

 

[YellowJacket]

Which is my problem... when I back the compression down the notes feel (relatively) thin and I have to drag them off the fretboard. I love the Mark when it's just screamin', it's those dialled-down-yet-still-high-gain sounds I struggle with.

Of course, turn down the water pressure and the hose goes flat. After screwing around with a Mark V, I am of the 'current' opinion that the clean, Mark I mode, and channel 3 are all that is really useful on that amp. The amp ultimately will excel at a certain thing -in this case, super high gain- and everything else is just added for decoration.

50w + variac. I starve the Roadster for headroom keep the gain low and turn the amp up too loud. It induces a different kind of compression. If I need a little bit more Mesa's Tone-Burst gives me a subtle boost in drive, compression and presence. If I need a lot more I use a Flux-Drive. Stack both into vintage high gain and it's like I'm playing a harpsichord.

Have you played a harpsichord? I only ask this because I am trying to understand the analogy. Are you meaning that there is no dynamic variation whatsoever? I have a Protone boost pedal that I've been messing around with but I haven't used it much yet. Like any pedal, it becomes more noticeable as the dials are turned up but sensible settings can give quite a transparent result.
My issue is that I rarely can crank amps and I'm usually running them at 85 - 90DB tops. This may be part of the trouble =-(

In the case of the ED, I theorize that although it has less gain than the Recto it also has no cold clipping stage (that I'm aware of), so the gain that the ED does have can be turned up higher without turning to mush like a Recto will past a certain point.

This is likely the case. As you crank the gain up, it compresses in a similar way to a Mark series amp and Vintage Hi is surprisingly similar to Mark I mode on the Mark V.

This is how I used to feel when soloing through a Recto. 6 months ago I would've told anyone that a Recto is a terrible lead amp.

Absolutely. I think I hold that view now. My friend got sick of having a thin, mid focused tone, and I got sick of having this massive sound and having my lead lines disappear. We switched amps for rehearsals and everything immediately sounded 10 times better.

 

[screamingdaisy]

Of course, turn down the water pressure and the hose goes flat. After screwing around with a Mark V, I am of the 'current' opinion that the clean, Mark I mode, and channel 3 are all that is really useful on that amp. The amp ultimately will excel at a certain thing -in this case, super high gain- and everything else is just added for decoration.

Edge I liked but it wound disappear in the mix on me so I gave up on it. I would rather use tweed for edge of breakup sounds anyway.

Crunch is my favourite mode. I seem to end up with something that's like a fatter, more scooped version of channel 3. For straight up metal Mark IV is probably a better choice, but for rock I preferred Crunch with the gain maxed.

Mark I with the gain low is a killer rock tone. I wish it was on a separate channel from Crunch.

Have you played a harpsichord? I only ask this because I am trying to understand the analogy. Are you meaning that there is no dynamic variation whatsoever?

More or less. It doesn't seem to matter whether I strike or graze the string, it comes out sounding more or less the same either way. It gives me loads of compression but lacks the harmonic complexity of the Mark's lead.