Rectifier to broaden my sonic palette?

[LesPaul70]

Point one. I'm perfectly happy with my Mk V. It does very nice cleans, very nice blues semi-cleans, very nice rock sounds, very nice metal rhythm, very nice lead sounds. Very nice you-name-it. Just one thing it doesn't do at all: the Dual Rectifier distortion sound. It's not a sound I normally need (my current band projects are much more old-school/vintage style sounding) but every now and then I would love complement my sound palette with a wicked Rectifier sound. And that is pretty much all I would need a new amp for. Everything else (like Lone Star cleans) would be extra - nice to have but not vital. I would still use my Mark V for almost everything else.

So I'm *not* getting rid of the Mk V. 97-98% of time it is the amp I need. Just every now and then...my band has a song that could use the Recto sound.

What are my options? The way I see it:
(I have omitted Triple Rectifier from the list because, from my POV, it offers no real advantages over a Dual Rectifier but is more expensive and way too LOUD for my needs.)

1) A Single Rectifier head
Pros:
- Not too expensive.
- Not too heavy (keeping in mind, I would be lugging this around in addition to my other gear).
- No unnecessary features.
Cons:
- Does not sound exactly the same as a Dual Rectifier.
- Only the Rectifier sound, the rest are almost unusable (to me).

2) A Dual Rectifier head
Pros:
- Pretty much the same as with a Single Rectifier. A bit more expensive but also a bit more versatile and has *the* sound.
Cons:
- The clean sound is almost unusable to me. (But I wouldn't be buying this for the clean sound anyway.)

3) A Roadster head
Pros:
- Very versatile.
- Lone Star cleans.
Cons:
- A tad on the heavy side.
- A bit expensive.
- Perhaps more features than I need.
- The Rectifier sounds a bit different from a Dual? (Have played both but never had a chance to do a full A/B)

4) A Road King II head
Pros:
- The same as with a Roadster but even moreso. Incredibly versatile.
Cons:
- Heavy as sin!
- Expensive (although not that much more expensive than a Roadster).
- Do I *really* need all that? (OTOH, add this to the Mk V and I really have *all* bases covered.)
- The Rectifier sounds a bit different from an actual Dual?

5) Rectifier recording preamp
Pros:
- Not too expensive.
- Not too heavy.
- No unnecessary features.
Cons:
- No personal experience of one. Can this be used with a Mark V as the power amp? (How?) Or would I need to buy a separate power amp stage? No idea.

x) A custom-built clone amp
Pros:
- I get an amp built by a pro to the exact specifications I want. It is as big and versatile as I want it to be, it will have the sounds I want, etc.
Cons:
- It is not the *real thing*. It is an unofficial clone.
- Could be very expensive.


Comments, suggestions, recommendations, thoughts, ideas? What would you choose if you were me?

 

[ibanez4life SZ!]

The best setup I've had to date is a Roadster with a Studio Preamp (run into the loop return of the Roadster when I want it, all controlled via MIDI with a GCX)...I get AWESOME cleans, all the rectifier tones, and all the high gain mark tones I'd want.

Something to consider....the studio pre is an AMAZING unit...if you like Mark tones, you might like it even more than your Mark V

 

[dbone]

I think if you want something that's totally different from the Mark V then the next logical step in Boogieland is the Roadster/Roadking II path. Its the YinYang = MarkoRecto.

 

[fluff191]

The best setup I've had to date is a Roadster with a Studio Preamp (run into the loop return of the Roadster when I want it, all controlled via MIDI with a GCX)

:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:


Holy Sh!t what a good idea.

 

[Neptical]

The best setup I've had to date is a Roadster with a Studio Preamp (run into the loop return of the Roadster when I want it, all controlled via MIDI with a GCX)...I get AWESOME cleans, all the rectifier tones, and all the high gain mark tones I'd want.

Something to consider....the studio pre is an AMAZING unit...if you like Mark tones, you might like it even more than your Mark V

That's the shiz right there!

The Studio Pre sounds wicked sweet. It's definitely all about the Mark tones.

I want to do something similar.

I'm starting to get really bad gas for a Roadster to team up with one of my Mark III's to run in stereo. I think it's pretty much the same idea here. I will have everything I need and 1,000x more with that set-up.

To the OP, yeah...I'd go for the Roadster. :wink:

 

[94Tremoverb]

I would get a Tremoverb, but you probably could guess I would say that .

But seriously... it's a truly great amp and maybe the most different from the MkV. If you don't know already, it's essentially a 2-channel Dual Rectifier but with reverb and tremolo, a better clean sound (different from any of the 3-channel/Single Rec/Road cleans - you'll either hate it even more than the later Rectifier cleans or love it, I'm really not sure which...!) and a fourth 'Blues' mode which is unique to this model. They've been discontinued for about ten years so used is the only option, but they're not that rare nor expensive, and even if you factor in a full overhaul should it need it, still cheaper than a new amp.

 

[YellowJacket]

+1 on the Tremoverb suggestion. My friend had one back in the day and they RULE!


So, let me get this straight. You want your Mark channels and a Recto crunch, which you will unleash occasionally. So you are intending on running two heads and two cabs live with an ABY switch? OR, are you wanting to run one or the other live? Is money an issue?

You could always get an old Two Channel Rev G. You can set up the Red Channel for a massive crunch tone and the orange for an elastic solo tone. Yes, I know this won't compare to the mark lead but the orange channel really is the dedicated lead channel and most guys miss it because they use the orange for clean, myself included. This will cover what you need without being TOO hard on the bank account.

Of course, you have to factor in that you only have a 100watt* mode of operation which, quite frankly, is LOUD! If you remove one rectifier tube and a pair of power tubes (Outside or inside) you can run the amp at 50watts if you set up the speaker lead correctly. (4oh output to 8 ohm cab)

Old 3channel duals are the same except that you have 3 channels. This would allow you to easily run a recto in stereo with your mark. If you are unhappy with the stock amp, you can always get Voodoo or FJA to mod it and 'fix' the insufficiencies. Again, these suckers are only 100watt beasts.

*100watts power band bold and diode rectifiers. Tube rectifiers and spongy power band cut the power somewhat.

The new 3channel Dual / triples have rectifier tracking and assignable power for each channel. They also have an improved clean tone. If you want an amp that does recto and can gig by itself, this is a fantastic option! With 3 channels, You can pair it in stereo with your mark or use it solo at gigs.

Anyway, I will vouch for a recto. Pop a quartet of EL-34s to coax out epic crunch!!

 

[LesPaul70]

Thanks for your comments, you rock!

But...you're not making this any easier! Now I have even more options than I started with!

Yes, I am planning to eventually go the ABY route (unless I get the preamp). That makes the most sense in a live situation. Most of the time I would still be using simply the "A" amp (Mark V), and only occasionally the "B" (Rectifier) with the option of "Y" when I feel like it. (Of course when I hear how it actually sounds, I might change my mind.)

Revising my options, these would be my top three choices now:

"New" multiwatt 3-channel Dual Rectifier Solo head
The simplest and most obvious choice. Because of the 50/100 watt switch, the actual volume would be easier to match with my Mark V. It would give me the Rectifier sound I want (and a little else, but that is irrelevant - if I picked this option, I would only want the Recto distortion).

Road King II/Roadster
You have recommended Roadster but the more I think about these two, the more tempted I am by the RK II. Simple reason: Progressive Linkage. It is the one single feature that I'm missing most in my Mark V! Even more than the Recto tone. It sucks that you can put in either 6L6s or EL34s but not both. (If they release a revised Mark V with Progressive Linkage, I'll upgrade immediately!)
Other than that, do RKII and Roadster sound any different?

Rectifier Recording Preamp
Using a Studio preamp with a Roadster as suggested is an interesting idea but it is kind of opposite to what I want. I'm perfectly happy with my Mark V and all of its sounds (not just the high-gain ones) and would not part with any aspect of it! In essence, I'm not looking for a versatile Rectifier-based amp with the ability add some Mark tones - I want to keep my versatile Mark series amp and add some Recto tones.
This option is tempting because it would involve the least amount of new heavy equipment to lug around! Also, the initial investment would be relatively minor. But having no experience of using a Rectifier Recording Preamp (into the effects return of a Mk V or otherwise), I have no idea whether this would work at all. Which Mk V mode should I use in conjuntion with the Rectifier preamp? Would the resulting sound be wildly different from an actual Dual Rectifier? (If so, this option is not good.)

 

[94Tremoverb]

Maybe not wildly, but different. The Rectifier Preamp into the MkV power stage will not give you the exact Rectifier tone because you still don't get the tube rectifier, and you can't turn off the negative feedback loop in the Mark power stage - which is an essential component of the Modern High-Gain setting (ie the classic Recto one) and why the Recto preamp has a 'Smart Power' link to the Rectifier 2:100 power amp, so it can duplicate this. If that all sounds a bit technical, the bottom line is that a Recto Pre through a Mark power stage will not give you the true Recto sound. It's the power stage that makes the Dual Rectifier so different from most other high-gain amps. (In my opinion.)

By the way, what cabinet are you planning to use?

 

[YellowJacket]

Thanks for your comments, you rock!

But...you're not making this any easier! Now I have even more options than I started with!

Yes, I am planning to eventually go the ABY route (unless I get the preamp). That makes the most sense in a live situation. Most of the time I would still be using simply the "A" amp (Mark V), and only occasionally the "B" (Rectifier) with the option of "Y" when I feel like it. (Of course when I hear how it actually sounds, I might change my mind.)

Revising my options, these would be my top three choices now:

"New" multiwatt 3-channel Dual Rectifier Solo head
The simplest and most obvious choice. Because of the 50/100 watt switch, the actual volume would be easier to match with my Mark V. It would give me the Rectifier sound I want (and a little else, but that is irrelevant - if I picked this option, I would only want the Recto distortion).

The clean channel on the 3 channel Dual Rectifier is actually pretty good. In my experience, boogie amps generally have good clean tones. I think when I first got my Dual I was shocked at how great the clean was, especially in comparison to high gain Marshall heads, Soldano SLO, Peavey 5150 etc, all of which have a thin and lifeless clean.

My take: Run the recto with EL-34s. ^__^ I still think for ABY applications, running 2 3 channel amps would make the stereo application the easiest. Oh, you might want to take a tap dancing class at the same time. I have a feeling you are going to have to get used to hitting lots of buttons!!

Road King II/Roadster
You have recommended Roadster but the more I think about these two, the more tempted I am by the RK II. Simple reason: Progressive Linkage. It is the one single feature that I'm missing most in my Mark V! Even more than the Recto tone. It sucks that you can put in either 6L6s or EL34s but not both. (If they release a revised Mark V with Progressive Linkage, I'll upgrade immediately!)
Other than that, do RKII and Roadster sound any different?

A road king will allow you to choose one of two cab options per channel, provided you have two cabs hooked up. You can have the brit mode hooked up to a Marshall 1960ac 4 x 12 and channel 4 hooked up to a Mills Afterburner 4 x 12 loaded with EV black labels. It is a very cool setup but this means you have more gear to schlep everywhere. If I had a Road King, I'd have an open back cab dedicated to clean tones and a close back 4 x 12 for crunch. It would be EPIC!!
I'm just warning you, the options are addictive. Factor in the extra $$$s for a cab and a gym membership just to be safe. (I advocate joining a powerlifting club if you are going to be moving 2 halfstacks to every show)

As I understand it, the revised clean on the Recto Reborn heads really isn't all that different from the Roadster / Road King cleans. What you get with a roadster is the added brit mode. Of course, the Road King has the cab selection option and progressive linkage. Do you absolutely NEED progressive linkage? Do you NEED the brit mode? As I understand it, the Roadster doesn't cost much more than the Recto Reborn.

Rectifier Recording Preamp
Using a Studio preamp with a Roadster as suggested is an interesting idea but it is kind of opposite to what I want. I'm perfectly happy with my Mark V and all of its sounds (not just the high-gain ones) and would not part with any aspect of it! In essence, I'm not looking for a versatile Rectifier-based amp with the ability add some Mark tones - I want to keep my versatile Mark series amp and add some Recto tones.
This option is tempting because it would involve the least amount of new heavy equipment to lug around! Also, the initial investment would be relatively minor. But having no experience of using a Rectifier Recording Preamp (into the effects return of a Mk V or otherwise), I have no idea whether this would work at all. Which Mk V mode should I use in conjuntion with the Rectifier preamp? Would the resulting sound be wildly different from an actual Dual Rectifier? (If so, this option is not good.)

You can always try it and AB it next to a recto. I'd trust Tremoverb94's assessment but you don't know if it is 'good enough for you' until you demo it.

 

[siggy14]

If you just want to get the rectifier tone in your palette, find yourself a 2 channel dual, the tone on those are great and can usually be had for 900 to 1000 and sometimes cheaper.

 

[R_ADKINS80]

A the volume difference between a dual and triple is negligable (sp?) and can be found almost as cheap as a dual. I have a triple with a smidge over 2 years left on th warranty for sale. 1100 shipped with your choice of 4 power tube sets I have for it and new boogie preamp tubes.

 

[YellowJacket]

If you just want to get the rectifier tone in your palette, find yourself a 2 channel dual, the tone on those are great and can usually be had for 900 to 1000 and sometimes cheaper.

Well, I also think this is hands down the BEST option for what he wants. He is just getting greedy and he has a bad case of GAS building. Come on, a Roadster really is twice the amp as a 2 Channel dual and the thought of Lonestar clean and brit mode in addition to recto high gain is just incredible!

A the volume difference between a dual and triple is negligable (sp?) and can be found almost as cheap as a dual. I have a triple with a smidge over 2 years left on th warranty for sale. 1100 shipped with your choice of 4 power tube sets I have for it and new boogie preamp tubes.

Well, for loud gigs the Triple is simply more thumpy and aggressive which is awesome. I think if I was to replace my 2 channel dual, a triple reborn would be my next preferred option. It would be between that or a Roadster / Road King. I have 2 cabs right now so I could actually use the cab switching options. Personally, I think the Electra Dyne is my next long term gear goal, but only because it does the two things I want that my Dual doesn't already do.

My only caution with 150watts is that you just can't get that tube crunch at quite as low a volume as you can with 50watts.

 

[JF Omalycat]

Wampler Triple Wreck? I've never played through one, but if I were in your shoes, that would be my first avenue of exploration.

http://www.wamplerpedals.com/triple_wreck_distortion

 

[LesPaul70]

Well, I also think this is hands down the BEST option for what he wants. He is just getting greedy and he has a bad case of GAS building. Come on, a Roadster really is twice the amp as a 2 Channel dual and the thought of Lonestar clean and brit mode in addition to recto high gain is just incredible!

Thanks for the psychoanalysis. Guess I asked for it.

But of course you are right. I don't really need those Lone Star cleans. And while I do think Progressive Linkage is a killer feature...the problem is, I don't need it in a Rectifier. I want it in my main amp, i.e., the Mark V. But that can't be done right now. For the Rectifier, I just want a "set-up-once-and-forget" source of Recto distortion.

So, the Dual Rectifier Solo Head seems the logical choice after all. Unless, of course, I come across a killer deal on a Roadster head or a RK II head.

Fortunately, I have a plenty of time to think about it and look for those killer deals. My gig calendar is sort of full until early December and I will not be making any drastic rig changes until then anyway.

Thanks to everybody for clearing my head for me.

 

[YellowJacket]

See. A two channel Rev G Dual Recto will give you a phat recto gain tone and a recto lead when necessary. Just what the doctor ordered.

 

[Blaklynx]

Wampler Triple Wreck? I've never played through one, but if I were in your shoes, that would be my first avenue of exploration.

http://www.wamplerpedals.com/triple_wreck_distortion

As above. This makes the most sense. If you only want the recto tone occassionally, try this first. Go to a shop and test. Sounds very good from what I've heard. It may very well surprise you.

youtube below. Reviewer is one of the best that I've seen for many different pedals.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBjfEkC2-qo

 

[siggy14]

I wouldnt say twice the amp, I have played many roadsters and I can tell you now the tone of the two channel still blows it away. Also the 2 channel will not have all the little problems people are seeing with the newer boogie amps, like channel popping.

If you just want to get the rectifier tone in your palette, find yourself a 2 channel dual, the tone on those are great and can usually be had for 900 to 1000 and sometimes cheaper.

Well, I also think this is hands down the BEST option for what he wants. He is just getting greedy and he has a bad case of GAS building. Come on, a Roadster really is twice the amp as a 2 Channel dual and the thought of Lonestar clean and brit mode in addition to recto high gain is just incredible!

A the volume difference between a dual and triple is negligable (sp?) and can be found almost as cheap as a dual. I have a triple with a smidge over 2 years left on th warranty for sale. 1100 shipped with your choice of 4 power tube sets I have for it and new boogie preamp tubes.

Well, for loud gigs the Triple is simply more thumpy and aggressive which is awesome. I think if I was to replace my 2 channel dual, a triple reborn would be my next preferred option. It would be between that or a Roadster / Road King. I have 2 cabs right now so I could actually use the cab switching options. Personally, I think the Electra Dyne is my next long term gear goal, but only because it does the two things I want that my Dual doesn't already do.

My only caution with 150watts is that you just can't get that tube crunch at quite as low a volume as you can with 50watts.

 

[BostonRedSox]

The Roadster is definitely the way to go. It has fucken killer cleans (definitely try the manual/factory suggestion called "skinny skank"), and just tons of different gain tones. The Tweed and Brit are great for the higher midrange crunch and clean sounds. Fat mode is equally awesome. The Raw mode is wicked versatile, albeit very low voiced for most gain tones.

Again, as a Roadster user, I'd have to state that the Roadster is your best bet. Or the Wampler (if they are that believable).

Channel popping isn't a problem, and is only noticeable on low volumes. It is created from a lot of static build-up, that is easily diminished by cycling through the channels while on stand-by. If you look at other switching units (musicaudio labs mkii, pedalswitcher), they too can have some "popping" sounds when switching.

 

[YellowJacket]

I wouldnt say twice the amp, I have played many roadsters and I can tell you now the tone of the two channel still blows it away. Also the 2 channel will not have all the little problems people are seeing with the newer boogie amps, like channel popping.

I meant twice the options. You know, 2 channels vs 4 channels. That said, you can get a lot of tones out of a 2 channel amp by manipulating the volume and tone controls on a guitar. Back in the day, 2 channels was a luxury.