Question on Mark V vs. Mark IIC+ - Different Twist

[Messerschmitt]

Would appreciate the thoughts of the Mesa gurus on this one - have the chance to get a Mark IIC (wood/wicker, EVM12L & HRG) for a few hundred more than a mint Mark V combo - so $1,500.00 versus $1250.00. Of course, I would get the IIC converted by Mesa to a C+ (would still have the 2C faceplate though) - so that'll add another $300.00 or so.

I don't really need a ton of versaility and frankly would side with the 2C/+ for responsibilities over the gain as I already have a classic Hiwatt, Twin Reverb and a Tremoverb in my stable that can all handle cleans excellent to well (especially the Hiwatt!). What I want is legendary overdrive and gain, particularly for a lead player. That said, I'm not looking for Metallica or Dream Theater tone as I'm a fan of neither.

Of course, would be great to get an amp that will increase in value and not drop. I have concerns that the V will drop if/when a VI is released and that the 2C converted will always have (*) associated with it.

So, what do you guys think, which should I go with?

 

[Agustín Collia]

If you're not looking for versatility, I'd go for the IIC+. However, by versatility I also include the live scenario, where carrying two amps might become a bit of an issue, instead of having one amp that packs all the sounds you may need. So, if you're mainly a home/studio guy, and you don't need to switch between two different distortion sounds or a clean and a distorted sound, I'd go with the IIC+.
I for one have a Mark III, and do switch from clean to hi gain distortion, and also use the Rhythm 2 channel for some less distorted sounds. I find that, at home levels, I can run Volume 1 at about 8 and still get Rhythm 1 to be really clean. However, as the amp gets louder and reaches stage volume, I have to run Volume 1 at 7.5. Any more than that and Rhythm 1 starts to break up. Still, I am able to use all three channels and get the sounds I need from them at the same time, although this ultimately depends on your specific needs and your tone preferences.
Good luck!

 

[dodger916]

If you can get an "upgraded" and re-capped HRG wood/wicker C+ with EVM for $1,800, you can't go wrong! You might even make a few $$ is you decide to sell it.

$1,250 ain't bad for a Mark V either. I doubt it will drop much in value. Mark IVs are still selling for ~ $1,000, more or less.

 

[Messerschmitt]

If you can get an "upgraded" and re-capped HRG wood/wicker C+ with EVM for $1,800, you can't go wrong! You might even make a few $$ is you decide to sell it.

$1,250 ain't bad for a Mark V either. I doubt it will drop much in value. Mark IVs are still selling for ~ $1,000, more or less.

Thanks alot guys! So is the IIC literally the same as a IIC+ after conversion (notwithstanding the fact that it has the 100 transformer, like some original IIC+).

 

[Agustín Collia]

Take a look at this thread, you'll find many answers:
http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=67559
For what it's worth, many people think "original" IIC+'s should be worth more than upgraded IIC+'s... I for one don't follow that logic, but the truth is that many people still do up to this day.

 

[Messerschmitt]

Take a look at this thread, you'll find many answers:
http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=67559
For what it's worth, many people think "original" IIC+'s should be worth more than upgraded IIC+'s... I for one don't follow that logic, but the truth is that many people still do up to this day.

Hey, I really appreciate all of the help! Very excited about getting the 2C, and feel very reassured with the decision now.

 

[tony777]

I wouldn't hesitate a second, Go for the IIC, you can always get a V later on.
And don't worry about the faceplate, The IIC faceplate is the same as IIB it just has a painted letters above the Bass knob. I've seen these faceplates even on MKIII, then with the painted letters above both the bass and middle knob. Mesa used everything available on the shelf those days.
There is something organic and magic to the C+ that no other amps have, you just have to decide if you like it or not. And with new filter caps it's tight as hell.

 

[kippiejr]

YOu go BOy! get the cheapest C you can and upgrade it. Then laugh when you sound as good or maybe get lucky and better than 3999.99 guys. A late IIC is the same as a factory IIC+ Even better when Mikey gets done with it! You know why? Cause you will have a cancelled check with his name on it! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: and an amp like no other!!!!! Or ++ it and list it on ebay for $6000. Did you guys see that.. I wonder if he'll get it.... :roll: :roll: :roll:

 

[gts]

A Mk-IIC HRG, Hardwood Combo/ Wicker grille with EV12L for $1500 is a very good deal!
Hope you bought it!
Post pics before you ship the chassis off for the + upgrade.

Btw the IIC/ IIC+'s clean channel is awesome as well.
It's cleans will easily do for you what a Twin Reverb can and then some (that is except match the reverb on the Twin).
So you won't be having to carry around two amps to get a good clean tone as well as the all wonderful lead tones available in a C+. The IIC+ will do both!

Would appreciate the thoughts of the Mesa gurus on this one - have the chance to get a Mark IIC (wood/wicker, EVM12L & HRG) for a few hundred more than a mint Mark V combo - so $1,500.00 versus $1250.00. Of course, I would get the IIC converted by Mesa to a C+ (would still have the 2C faceplate though) - so that'll add another $300.00 or so.

I don't really need a ton of versaility and frankly would side with the 2C/+ for responsibilities over the gain as I already have a classic Hiwatt, Twin Reverb and a Tremoverb in my stable that can all handle cleans excellent to well (especially the Hiwatt!). What I want is legendary overdrive and gain, particularly for a lead player. That said, I'm not looking for Metallica or Dream Theater tone as I'm a fan of neither.

Of course, would be great to get an amp that will increase in value and not drop. I have concerns that the V will drop if/when a VI is released and that the 2C converted will always have (*) associated with it.

So, what do you guys think, which should I go with?

 

[chipaudette]

A Mk-IIC HRG, Hardwood Combo/ Wicker grille with EV12L for $1500 is a very good deal!
Hope you bought it!
Post pics before you ship the chassis off for the + upgrade.

Btw the IIC/ IIC+'s clean channel is awesome as well.
It's cleans will easily do for you what a Twin Reverb can and then some (that is except match the reverb on the Twin).
So you won't be having to carry around two amps to get a good clean tone as well as the all wonderful lead tones available in a C+. The IIC+ will do both!

Hey George. Gonna disagree with you here. As much as I love the clean channel on my IIC(+), it's different than a Fender. Anyone who's deep in love with a Twin Reverb should not expect to find that sound in the Mark IIC...because, if they expect to find it, they're gonna be disappointed.

As an owner of a Fender, and as an owner of a Mark, and having studied both circuits extensively, I find the difference very interesting. It's particularly interesting because, at its core, the Mark clean circuit *is* a blackface Fender circuit. Yet, to my ears, they sound different and, even more strongly, they feel different.

If I had to articulate the difference, I'd say that the Fender extends deeper into lower frequencies (in a natural, not boomy way), is more scooped in the mids, is way more loose, and the reverb is just sumptuous. The Mark clean definitely has its own thing going on (way better for clean single note work) but I've never been able to get that Dick Dale WHOOMP! dinga-dinga-dinga KUR-CHANG! from my Mark. It explodes effortlessly from my Fender. The Fender is definitely a rock 'n roll party.

That said, I still play my Mark 95% of the time. It's a party, too. Just not a surf-rock or garage-rock party. A Fender lover will find plenty to love in the Mark clean channel, as long as he's open what the Mark *is* and not what the Mark *is not*.

Chip

 

[gts]

Good points Chip. And I agree with them all.
There is a certain sag (your word "loose") with blackface amps that you won't/ don't get with a Mark IIC+ (and possible all other mark amps).
The feel is definitely different, though C+'s have a sag/ responsiveness that (in my experience) Mark III's and IV's don't have.
Not the same as blackface sag and responsiveness but it's still wonderful.

I guess maybe I was thinking he'd be happy with the 60/100's clean tones.
Wonderful enough to not have to take two amps to a gig (either his Hiwatt, Twin, or Tremoverb??? ....) that will be up to him to decide.

Quite honestly I don't own and have not played through a blackface Twin in quite some time (other blackface amps; yes).
And part of me was thinking the power output of a blackface Twin (85 watts) as compared to a 60/100 IIC or IIC+, thus I was thinking he won't be lacking for clean headroom.
Tone wise it's close. Tighter? Yes! That bloom you speak of, nah but it'll have it's own dynamic.
Maybe somewhat of a familiar, perhaps a similarity(?) to the tone.
Not as scooped in the mids but he could get close with the EQ.
Fender-like Reverb, Nah it won't happen, imho there'll be no Dick Dale from a IIC+ or any Mesa Mark amp ;-).

I think chords and single notes played through a blackface amp "bloom" differently than a IIC+.
Tone wise (through the same cabs/ speakers) to my ears there's a lot of similarity, albeit you are right on target about the lower frequencies extending 'deeper' on a BF (or my words 'being more present') than on a C+.

Anyway you look at it I think it's a good deal! And he'll be very happy with that IIC especially after the "+" upgrade.