Question from a newbie about high gain sound..

[Sorg]

Remember that the sound you hear on most records is double tracked and gone through a lot of post production, etc.

Yes, I know that. I did just not put it in the post. But still a lot of my favorite guitar sounds have been recorded with Mesa so it's got to be something with it. I have tried it out for 4-5 hours and I'm perfectly aware of that I should try it more. But my problem is that the main distortion in the amp ("core distortion") was not fat enough.. To korny...

 

[Sorg]

The one thing I have not heard on here is what cab/speakers are you using? That could be a factor.

Octavarius is right though, studio sounds are double tracked and engineered 10 ways to God. Someone else mentions volume too. To get into the guts of a DR it really has to be cranked IMO.

Well that's the only thing.. I have not had the chance to try it with Mesa cab yet... Only Marshall and a custom made cab... Btw, how much will the cab influence the sound? You see I will head into the studio very soon and I was going to borrow a Mesa cab, but now the dude will not come back from vacation in time.. So the sound guy talked about using a 5150 instead.. Do you guys think that will have a very negative impact on the sound? What about orange? At least it has the same elements (vintage 30) as mesa..

And how loud are we speaking? So loud that you have to use ear protection when tweaking the sound?

 

[camsna]

Cab is a HUGE influence!!!

 

[SydMark11]

Cab is likethe bread..the amp is the butter. You got to have both to crat the tones you seeking.

 

[clutch71]

.. Do you guys think that will have a very negative impact on the sound? What about orange? At least it has the same elements (vintage 30) as mesa..

And how loud are we speaking? So loud that you have to use ear protection when tweaking the sound?

I have never been a fan of the Marshall 1960 a or b cabs loaded with the G12t- 75 Celestion. The AV or BV aren't bad but quality control on them is lacking thus effecting output quality. I prefer Mesa cabs loaded with V30 and own a couple. I do like the Orange Cabs and have played through several but never with a DR Head.

The 5150 cabs if Memory serves are Sheffield and I had a pair in a 5150II combo, not bad. Speaker and Cabs are a personal taste though. You jus have to try different combos to find out what you like. Hopefully you'll have a good sound engineer that will owrk with you in recording and micing techniques.

Yeah, believe DR's sound best at cranked (ear protections levels as you said) tones. Each one is different but I think a lot of people get them (myself included) and try to tame them.

 

[camsna]

Yep. Took me over a year to figure that out. To make a Dual Recto sound good - it has to be REAL loud.

I even had mine running just a pair of JJ 6V6s! That's not much in the way of wattage. Still killer loud - but boy did it sound good!

 

[ANIMATED SUSPENSION]

What pups are you using ??

pup = pickups? I have a PRS Custom 22 with original pickups.

The Custom 22 pickups are probably to blame for your issues, they are not that powerful and are voiced as kind of 'vintage sounding.' The HFS pickup on the PRS 24 fretters is what you really want for the sound you're looking for. They really are chalk and cheese !!

 

[mrd]

Sorg, if you want an idea of where probably 90% of all bands that use DRs set their amp's volume to record in the studio, do this: master output and channel output to 12o'clock, and gain at about 11:30-1o'clock depending on style.

THIS is a good volume to hear what a DR is all about. Even with 50 watts, this is screaming loud, earplugs are an absolute must here unless you don't value your hearing. Try and get some good ones with even frequency attenuation like a pair of re-usable and washable ones from Etymotic Research. At this volume you should be able to feel a decent amount of air flying off the speakers, especially with a 4x12.

Beyond this, you can go to higher wattages if you want, but keep in mind that at this volume, the speakers are already getting fucked (IE: they are breaking up, which is most often a good thing in small amounts). On my Road King (which is a DR at heart, it just has way more channels, etc), if I'm feeling adventurous, I will set all 6 power tubes up, and then set the volumes like mentioned above.

All I gotta say is: :shock:

This is where **** starts vibrating off walls and cups on your desk start doin' the walk. lol

 

[Dead Moon Rising]

don't bother with an overdrive or separate EQ, overrated and too easy to mess up a good thing, just plug straight in.

I got great results with these settings(a modified version of Andy Sneap's work on DHIADW by Nevermore):

Silicon Diode Setting
Bold Setting
Red (Modern) Channel
Treble: 11.30
Mids: 10 O'Clock
Bass: 11.30
Gain: 2 O'clock-ish
Presence: 12.30

 

[JW123]

Ive been recording over the last few days at a friends house.

There was a 5150 cab there that I hooked up. At first I was getting a terrible sound. We were trying to use a Sennheiser mic, we changed to a SM 57 and it made all the difference in the world. On my triple Im running the master at about 1-2 oclcock, at that point it gets the power tubes cooking, any louder and it seems to get mushy. Im running the gain anywhere from 12-2 oclock. Treble around noon, bass a little below noon, I wound up scooping the mids down some, presence about 11 oclcock. I was running tube rec and spongy and wound up with a pretty good sound, oh yeah red channel. I used an old tubescreamer for a little sparkle on solos.

The manual on these amps is a good place to start with settings.

They are a little finicky and you have to find the sweet spot for your playing style. What works for me might not work for you. These amps do record a lot better loud than at a low volume. I use attenuators but at the studio I put my cab in an isolation both and crank it up.

Good Luck

 

[Sorg]

Thanks for all the tips! It might be the cabs and the volume that will make the difference. I never played so loud that I needed ear plugs when testing it yet. But is that a problem live? I mean, a lot of sound guys would not want the amp freakinly loud on stage, but have it louder out on the speakers..

I also wanted to buy a tube screamer or something when I bought the amp, but all the guys in the shop said it would not be necessary with a DR because you have enough of opportunities.

 

[Sorg]

Red channel is the 3 channel right? With modern? That is what everybody is using for the high gain sounds?

 

[ANIMATED SUSPENSION]

Red channel is the 3 channel right? With modern? That is what everybody is using for the high gain sounds?

Yes it is especially for rhythm, but I repeat, your Custom 22 with std pups is not a ' high gain sounding guitar '! Sorry ! :wink:

 

[Sorg]

Red channel is the 3 channel right? With modern? That is what everybody is using for the high gain sounds?

Yes it is especially for rhythm, but I repeat, your Custom 22 with std pups is not a ' high gain sounding guitar '! Sorry ! :wink:

Yes that might be, but it should be high gain enough? OR at least with EQ, etc it should be possible to et close enough?

Btw, I actually planned to switch the bridge pickup in the guitar with a Dimebucker or Burstbucker I have... What do you suggest? The Dimebucker is on my Gibson LP now, but I planned to put the Burstbucker on there and the Dimebucker on the PRS.

 

[TomiR]

don't bother with an overdrive or separate EQ, overrated and too easy to mess up a good thing, just plug straight in.

I got great results with these settings(a modified version of Andy Sneap's work on DHIADW by Nevermore):

Silicon Diode Setting
Bold Setting
Red (Modern) Channel
Treble: 11.30
Mids: 10 O'Clock
Bass: 11.30
Gain: 2 O'clock-ish
Presence: 12.30

Those are settings for the older 2channel Recto, Sneap has a Rackmount Dual Rectifier that he used on that album. Having the presence at 12:30 on a 3channel Recto is, in my opinion way too bright and it makes the treble too dominating.

I love the guitar tone on DHIADW and EOR! I tried to make those settings work, but it always sounded harsh and fizzy to my ears.

That was because I didn't know about the difference between the red on a 2channel and 3channel Recto's.

Like I said before, when using 2chan Recto settings on a 3channel one, remember that the red channel on the 3channel one is A LOT more brighter than the red channel on the 2channel head!

The orange channel on the 3chan Recto is pretty similar to the red channel on the 2channel head.

So with those settings, you actually have a lot more presence going on than what you hear on the album. Having the presence at about 9o'clock or even lower will be closer to the amount of presence that was used on the album. Like I said, because of the difference between the 2 and 3channel Recto's red channels.

Oh, and Sneap used an Ibanez TS-9 too :wink:

 

[TomiR]

I also wanted to buy a tube screamer or something when I bought the amp, but all the guys in the shop said it would not be necessary with a DR because you have enough of opportunities.

I think the guys at the shop have misunderstood what a TS does to a Recto, it's not to make it more versatile (alltough I LOVE to use on the green channel with the pushed mode on) but to tighten the low end and to compress it a bit.