Pushed clean sounds

[EtherealWidow]

I read one of your guys' posts that said something to the extent of the clean channel with a dirt pedal in front of it is a totally different (sometimes good) sound from just using one of the distortion channels. I'm wondering how many of you do this, what dirt pedal you're using, and how the sound is completely different. The truth is, I've yet to be TOTALLY satisfied with my rig, no matter how much I try and convince myself that I am. I played through an old Gibson Goldtone 2x12 combo with reverb and I absolutely loved the sound. It was used, so I have no idea what tubes were in it. But I played through it for a good half hour turned all the way up. I had no idea that the tubes were EL84's because it was a completely different sound than what I've been used to with my amp. It's not a "metal" amp by any means, which is fine because I don't really like metal tone, despite what I play. I just loved the way the clean channel sounded turned all the way up. I'll have to take my amp out to some guitar shops and play through some open back 2x12's to see if that gets me into a closer tone territory than what I'm doing now.

 

[J.J]

Thats an interesting post

I am getting to a similar place to you, although I play very different tunes. The clean channel has gone from having no use to me to being my fav. The whole range of tones from crystal clean through pushed clean, clean with output tubes squeeling and into boosed singing lead are there. Just playing around the other night I found that if you run the tone controls up high around 2:00 to 3:00 you can get some really cool breakup. Running the tone up adds gain, but instead of overall gain, each control adds gain in its frquency zone.

For boosted tones I really like the OCD with the gain at or very close to zero and the volume turned up to taste.

The only real trouble I have using clean for everything is that you don't have the versatility two separate channels. IF the Express could have identical clean modes for both channels it would open up many more options.

I am seeing the Express more and more and the Mesa sampler. BY that I mean it has a bit of all the other Mesa amps in it and you can get some great tones if you work at it. I know others will dissagree here, but it kind of seems like once you figure out what you really like with the Express then it is time to move onto one of the more specific models. I have been testing a lot of Mesa amps recently and the ED just keeps grabbing me. I've been offered a very attractive price (for Australia), but really need to make sure I can get the range of tones I need.

As for speakers, the best sound I can get from my Express so far is by adding a 1x12 open back extension cab running a C90 in conjuction with combos V30. My band has also made possitive comments about this setup.

 

[vbf]

I've got quite a few dirt pedals that I use in front of my 5:50, not necessarily because I don't like the amps' overdrive, I don't have time to diddle with amp settings between songs. For medium gains, here's what I typically have on my board: Timmy, Luther Drive, Lovepedal Eternity Burst, Xotic BB, and a Rat. For low to medium gains, here's my typical like up: NOC3 Rock Candy, Timmy, NOC3 Pure Drive, Skreddy Lunar Module, and a Lovepedal Kanji. For heavy gains, here's my usual lineup: Skreddy Screwdriver, Catalinbread Super Charged Over Drive, Catalinbread Dirty Little Secret, Rock Box Boiling Point, MI Audio Crunch Box, and a Suhr Riot. I've also got a Barber Burn Unit, Chord Blaster, and a few others. I'll mix these up depending on what we're playing any given week.

 

[ifailedshapes]

The only real trouble I have using clean for everything is that you don't have the versatility two separate channels. IF the Express could have identical clean modes for both channels it would open up many more options.

Please explain to me how stepping on a stomp box switch is any more difficult than stepping on an amp footswitch.

I've got quite a few dirt pedals that I use in front of my 5:50, not necessarily because I don't like the amps' overdrive, I don't have time to diddle with amp settings between songs. For medium gains, here's what I typically have on my board: Timmy, Luther Drive, Lovepedal Eternity Burst, Xotic BB, and a Rat. For low to medium gains, here's my typical like up: NOC3 Rock Candy, Timmy, NOC3 Pure Drive, Skreddy Lunar Module, and a Lovepedal Kanji. For heavy gains, here's my usual lineup: Skreddy Screwdriver, Catalinbread Super Charged Over Drive, Catalinbread Dirty Little Secret, Rock Box Boiling Point, MI Audio Crunch Box, and a Suhr Riot. I've also got a Barber Burn Unit, Chord Blaster, and a few others. I'll mix these up depending on what we're playing any given week.

That's ridiculous (in a good way...)! I could never keep up with that many pedals!

 

[FXR]

On my Express 5:25 I can setup the crunch channel clean, gain at like 9:00, and then use a Bad Monkey to take it to full crunch. It works well to give the impression of switching from clean to crunch which we can't do.

It does not however have the same effect on the blues/burn channel simulation. But, as I go on I may get lucky and find a pedal that will.

As for switching the channel bias with a pedal. It looks like way more trouble then it's worth, especially if I can find a pedal for the same effect on blues burn. It's probably possible with the bad monkey on channel 2, but all the knobs would be different then on channel 1. I don't remember and the amp is at Mesa getting some needed attention, so I can't test.

 

[J.J]

Please explain to me how stepping on a stomp box switch is any more difficult than stepping on an amp footswitch.

Ok, to go from best clean or pushed clean to best drive requires EQ and most times gain adjustement. Changing channels or stomping a dirt box comprmises things. Maybe I'm just to fussy :lol: So, that is basically why I am not totally happy with my Express, it has great tones, but I can't get them without tweeking in a live situation.

 

[EtherealWidow]

All pretty helpful responses. I dunno though. It's just driving me nuts. Maybe I don't like the tone of the tubes, (kinda scratchy no matter what speaker I use.) Maybe the cab is partly to blame then. Maybe the closed back focuses the highs too much. It's just that when I played a STRAT through 2 VINTAGE-VOICED speakers, the highs were fine. Granted, it was open back, so maybe the highs were dispersed better. I don't care so much about losing thump. I don't play thumpy stuff anyway.

 

[EtherealWidow]

I also found out that it wasn't a 2x12 combo after all. That goldtone was using two Vintage 10's by Celestion. If you ever get the chance to play through a goldtone and are kind of looking for the same sound I am, don't pass it up. They're seriously cool amps. The reverb with that open back cab just absolutely filled the room.

 

[J.J]

There is just something about 10" speakers. I wish more amps used them, but everyone seems to want 12" speakers. A good number of my favorite amps use them, Fender super reverb, Fender Custom Vibrolux and Mesa Lonestar (4x10 version). I had a Marshall 4x10 cab and now wish I never sold it. 10s do beam less as you have noticed.

Regarding tubes, there is very little choice with EL84 tubes and I don't think any of the new production ones are great. In contrast, amps that use 6l6 or EL34 types have a much bigger choice of what appear to be higher quality to start with.

 

[FXR]

I got a buddy that says my Express 5:25 sounds like that too, sometimes. He says there is a static or scratchy sound at like 1K. My Express 5:25 is at Mesa for service. When it comes back, I hope he doesn't hear what he heard. This guy has ears too. He's in the upper echelons of experience and training, so I trust his judgment. He insists on using my amp when he isn't playing bass, drums, keys or who knows what, qualifying that when working proper, the Express has a really good sound, at least for me and him.

 

[EtherealWidow]

There is just something about 10" speakers. I wish more amps used them, but everyone seems to want 12" speakers. A good number of my favorite amps use them, Fender super reverb, Fender Custom Vibrolux and Mesa Lonestar (4x10 version). I had a Marshall 4x10 cab and now wish I never sold it. 10s do beam less as you have noticed. Regarding tubes, there is very little choice with EL84 tubes and I don't think any of the new production ones are great. In contrast, amps that use 6l6 or EL34 types have a much bigger choice of what appear to be higher quality to start with.

Maybe 10" speakers are magical. I don't know what it was about that goldtone, but that whole thing was magic. I guess I'm just trying to figure out what it was. Really hoping I can replicate it with my 5:25.

I got a buddy that says my Express 5:25 sounds like that too, sometimes. He says there is a static or scratchy sound at like 1K. My Express 5:25 is at Mesa for service. When it comes back, I hope he doesn't hear what he heard. This guy has ears too. He's in the upper echelons of experience and training, so I trust his judgment. He insists on using my amp when he isn't playing bass, drums, keys or who knows what, qualifying that when working proper, the Express has a really good sound, at least for me and him.

Yeah. I've been struggling for about a year now to get rid of it. Every time I get a new piece of gear I think I fixed it, but then the honeymoon wears off. I'm really hoping that the addition of another speaker cab and a tube swap will fix this. There's only so much you can do before you should just get a new amp. It's weird though. If memory serves, in the store the 5:25 through a C90 loaded Thiele didn't sound scratchy at all...

 

[FXR]

When I demoed my Express 5:25 in the store it was a fairly large store. Lots of square feet and pretty good ceilings. The amp shook the place, it was truely amazing. Everyone in the store came over to see what we were up to. It was cool as hell.

Then I got her home, played a bit, and she fell on her face. I'd shut her off, call a friend with more experience, they'd come over, turn her on and call me nuts. I'd go back to playing only to have the same experience. It was really intermittent at first. As time went on, it became pretty consistent and would cut out in about 2 hours stage play or less.

My opinion is, and I think this is going to annoy Mesa, is that there may be factory bugs. If you catch them and ask for help, you'll get help, if not, you're on your own. They, it appears, are not calling any back. I see this with a few other models too. In fact, someone in the store the day I brought my Mesa tried to talk me out of it because of bugs in the past with Mesa amps.

Aside from that theory, the service at Mesa has been very good, in fact, excellent.

 

[EtherealWidow]

Well my problem has never really been intermittent. It's been ever since I brought it home. Just not the same as in the store. :/ And I have to ask, are you still using the stock tubes? Is the scratchy sound something I can blame on JJ or Ruby? And speaking of 10" speakers, the Eminence Delta Demon looks really cool. On Eminence, they describe it as "Extremely balanced, dark, creamy smooth tone." I don't know though. I've been fooled so many times by cliche words to describe a tone before... Maybe it would go well with the Legend 1028k though. Don't know.

 

[Pappy]

I play the clean channel on my 5:25 90% of the time, but I have it set on Clean and Blues for all gigs. Rarely use the crunch and burn modes.
I use a pedal board w/ a Jacques Overtube for OD.
It has a "cascade" toggle on board that's supposed to sound like 2 TS's in tandem.
Does it really sound like 2 TS in tandem? I don't know :lol: , but it gives me the boost and dirt I need for leads. The Overtube sounds good when used in both clean and blues mode. It's not a high distortion pedal, but is excellent for sweet OD tone.
I have played and jammed a few times w/ just the 5:25 switch and that works fine, too. Most everybody who hears my Boogie loves it.

I had intermittent volume problems w/ my Express, too and after exhausting all local options I had to send mine back to the factory. They were vague about what the problem was, but fixed it and I haven't had any issues since. Excellent factory service. Fast and courteous.

 

[FXR]

I can't begin to explain the tube changing scenario Mesa had me go through. But, they helped in providing tubes. In the end, The tubes changed the amp too much IMO and didn't fix the issue. I want my amp to sound the way it did when I brought it.

I have a 12" Vintage 30 and we're pretty sure it's ok, but doubt still looms in the back of my mind.

I mean really, if I look at this purchase in a practical light, I made a really bad purchase. But, I have to give Mesa the shot at making it right.

As for using one channel with pedals, I brought this amp because it has two usable channels. I am not shooting it in the foot. I want it all to work. I'm glad to hear Mesa made yours right, Pappy. I hope I have the same result. Right now my wife feels we got ripped off by a name with a good reputation. This was a bit above and beyond the purchase we intended to make.

 

[floaty83]

Where are you running the Contour control on the clean channel? That could be making a difference too.

I added a closed back Mesa widebody 1x12 with a C90 to my 5:50 1x12 at a buddy's house last weekend and that made a HUGE difference in the sound of the amp. I may run my amp a bit different than some though.

I run Channel 1 in Crunch mode with gain at about 9:00, Treble at 10:00, Mids at 10:00, Bass at 12:00, Contour at 11:00 and Master at about 11:00. Great slighty dirty clean tone that cleans up beautifully by rolling back the volume a bit on my guitar. My guitar has extremely hot PUs, Gibson Explorer with 496R and 500T

 

[EtherealWidow]

I mess around with the contour. Dimed, off, and everywhere in between. I find I'm liking it a lot more. Adds a lot of tonal capabilities to the amp. I think I'm just gonna have to throw down some money for a 2x10 cab. I gotta make this amp work.

And FXR, what all did they have you do with the tubes? Did you always use JJ pre's and Ruby powers? I asked Fluff from here about Sovtek 12AX7LPS's and he said they were smooth. Bright, but smooth. I just don't like that little bit of scratch I can't seem to get rid of in the amp. Other than that, it's wonderful.

 

[EtherealWidow]

Regarding tubes, there is very little choice with EL84 tubes and I don't think any of the new production ones are great. In contrast, amps that use 6l6 or EL34 types have a much bigger choice of what appear to be higher quality to start with.

What do you think about Mullard Reissues? Have you tried them? They sound somewhat promising and can be pushed relatively with ease from what some reviews are saying. I just can't afford NOS tubes, and if I could, I'm not sure I'm hip on the idea of buying used tubes even if I am limiting my possibilities hugely.

 

[FXR]

I mess around with the contour. Dimed, off, and everywhere in between. I find I'm liking it a lot more. Adds a lot of tonal capabilities to the amp. I think I'm just gonna have to throw down some money for a 2x10 cab. I gotta make this amp work.

And FXR, what all did they have you do with the tubes? Did you always use JJ pre's and Ruby powers? I asked Fluff from here about Sovtek 12AX7LPS's and he said they were smooth. Bright, but smooth. I just don't like that little bit of scratch I can't seem to get rid of in the amp. Other than that, it's wonderful.

They just had me doing routine tube swaps to try and verify that the problem was or was not tubes. As a result, I found out I only like the Russian-2 tubes it had with to begin with, when it would work right. The amp would fall on it's face no matter what pre and ots were in it in the long run.

 

[J.J]

What do you think about Mullard Reissues? Have you tried them? They sound somewhat promising and can be pushed relatively with ease from what some reviews are saying. I just can't afford NOS tubes, and if I could, I'm not sure I'm hip on the idea of buying used tubes even if I am limiting my possibilities hugely.

No, I haven't tried the Mullards. I really wanted to, but I have yet to find anyone who has and thinks that they are anything better than the others. I have some original Mullard 12ax7 tubes and they are definately a cut above any of the new 12ax7s I have. I have tried JJs and some other rusian tubes I have, but the Mesa ones do work best so far. Could the amp be voiced for the Mesa Rusian tubes ?

The Express seems to have the pressence preset quite low which deos give it quite a tight sound. Though if you want more turning up the trebble to compensate seems to end up in ice pick land. I have been having better results by turning the contour up to 3:00 or higher as has already been mentioned by others in this thread. Then the bass has to be cut back to 7:00. I also run th mids around 1:30 when doing that. This works ok at home, but I am not sure it will work at band volumes.

Any chance you can take your head and plug it into the Gibson amp with the 2x10" setup ? That should help tell you if it is worth buying a 2x10 or just wasting money. I missed an Ebay deal on a pair of Jensen P10R speakers and am waiting for something similar to come up. I really think a pair of 10" speakers could work with the Express, but don't want to throw down to much money to find out otherwise. I'm actually at the point now where I am considering some simple mods such as adding a bright cap or pressence control. Or even changing the bypass cap value on the first gain stage, which should help cut down on flabby bass.