Preamp tubes

[Tuna141]

I just wanted to remind everyone to be sure to do some preamp tube swapping if you are unhappy with your tone...

Background: I have never been much of a fan of JJ preamp tubes, as I have always found them to be dark sounding in other amps. When I heard that JJ was now the supplier of tubes for Mesa, including the tubes in the Mark V, I was hoping that the tone had changed and was willing to give them a chance.

After receiving my Mark V, I thought the amp sounded OK, but I was never really impressed. I thought the tone sounded muffled and muddy. I also found that Ch1 would run out of headroom quickly and I had to almost max this channel's volume control in order for it to keep up with the other two channels.

Last night, I finally got around to swapping the stock preamp tubes with some higher quality tubes to see if it would improve the tone. The change was a definite improvement. Ch1's volume is now on par with the other channels, and has even better chime to it. The change also opened-up Ch3 - it always sounded muddy and dull before the tube change. It now sounds much clearer and lively. Ch2 sound slightly better too, but the improvement was not as pronounced as the other two channels.

Anyway, I just wanted to remind everyone to be sure to try swapping preamp tubes before giving up on the Mark V. I'm happy I did.

btw, here's the configuration I ended up staying with:
V1=Sylvania JAN12AX7 (NOS)
V2= Raytheon ECC83 (NOS)
V3= Electro-Harmonix 12AX7EH
V4= stock Mesa/JJ (didn't try changing yet)
V5= Electro-Harmonix 12AX7EH
V6= stock Mesa/JJ (didn't try changing yet)
V7 (PI)= GE JAN5751 (NOS)

 

[MBJunkie]

Tuna....With all due respect I disagree.

The MkV is capable of such a wide variety of great sounds. IMO a new owner should explore all modes/features of the amp stock before changing anything.

I have owned mine for 1-1/2 years and have never thought to myself "man....I need to replace preamp tubes (or power tubes for that matter) to get a great sound". It is very capable of great sounds stock. Honestly, I love the way it sounds stock and have never had any reason to replace preamp tubes.

I will say that I did experiment with EL-34's after owning the amp for 8 months and I did like the Edge and Crunch modes slightly better using the EL-34s, but have since gone back to 6L6s because overall....I prefer the sound of the V with 6L6's.

Once again, preamp tube wise......my V still has the original ones installed and it sounds great to me!!

Just my opinion

 

[Tuna141]

MBJunkie,

I was simply suggesting that people try swapping the stock preamp tubes if they are unhappy with their tone. I agree with you that this should be after they had already tried finding their tone using the Mark V's switches, modes, knobs, etc. If none of that works I am suggesting that they try some preamp swapping. In my case I had some crappy tubes, contributing to low gain on Ch1 and making the other channels sound muddy. Replacing some of these tubes made a big difference in my amp, and I was trying to save some people from needlessly dumping a good amp, when a simple preamp tube swap might be all that is needed.

I wish the stock tubes in my amp sounded as good as yours did, as this would have some me some cash :lol:

 

[MBJunkie]

My apologies. I didn't do a good job of reading your post!
I am glad your new tubes are working great for you!!

 

[Tuna141]

No problem. Everyone has different tone preferences and there's so many factors that contribute to our tone (guitars, cables, speakers, pickups, tubes, amp settings, etc). It's not surposing that what works for someone may not work for someone else.

It's all good

 

[MBJunkie]

Tuna...

Firstly, thanks for accepting my apology!

Yes, I fully agree that tone is very subjective and there are so many variables to consider as you have mentioned! What sounds great to one....may sound not so good or even bad to another. No question.

Along that same thought....while my stock preamp tubes sound great to me.....they may not sound good to you or others. I will say that I haven't experienced any preamp tube failures such as you have described, but that is likely just good luck on my part. :wink:

I would also like to add that I don't typically set my amp in settings that really push the preamp tubes (i.e. high gain, with high treble and/or high presence simultaneously), just as an example.

For my needs, I don't find settings such as (described above) to even sound good for my taste.....which definitely includes rhythm and lead sounds for country, blues, classic and hard rock styles.

Anyway, most importantly, I am pleased that you were able to find a combination of preamp tubes that are working nicely and providing you with great sounds out of your V! :mrgreen:

It is also good that you posted some alternate suggestions for others that may be struggling to achieve "their great sounds" while playing through the MkV! 8)

Cheers!

 

[Zakkmylde]

I'm a new owner and I find same issue. Clean channel has to be cranked or put in tweed mode to compete with the other 2 channels, by then it's not clean and sounds not clean at all. So you suggest that at least lowering gain of PI tube may help me achieve this? Increase headroom on clean and muddyness on other channels? I'm so in.... Not sure which PI tube to buy 12AT7 or the JAN kind? Any advice?

 

[SteveO]

I'm a new owner and I find same issue. Clean channel has to be cranked or put in tweed mode to compete with the other 2 channels, by then it's not clean and sounds not clean at all. So you suggest that at least lowering gain of PI tube may help me achieve this? Increase headroom on clean and muddyness on other channels? I'm so in.... Not sure which PI tube to buy 12AT7 or the JAN kind? Any advice?

You have to compensate for the volume differences with the channel masters. The more gain a particular channel has, the louder it is going to be in relation to the other channels. Set your clean channel to how it sounds good to you, then set the levels on the other two channels to match. I typically have the channel one master set to about noon, and channel three hangs at around 9:00 to keep the volume balanced.

 

[thunder100]

Tuna....With all due respect I disagree.

The MkV is capable of such a wide variety of great sounds. IMO a new owner should explore all modes/features of the amp stock before changing anything.

I have owned mine for 1-1/2 years and have never thought to myself "man....I need to replace preamp tubes (or power tubes for that matter) to get a great sound". It is very capable of great sounds stock. Honestly, I love the way it sounds stock and have never had any reason to replace preamp tubes.

Would not disagree(read all the tread)

Yes a Mark V needs tweaking (pls think about which speaker variety are there) and I know about what I talk owning an AXE FX 2 too

BUT I just want to share my recent story

based on that other tread here I bought a Mullard 161 (in V1 ,big issue to get a decent one) and played in channel 1.My wife came(usually an ignorant on tone) and said,WHAT NEW AMP DID YOU BUY AGAIN?

So apart turning all knobs there is still more in an Mark V

my 2 cents though

Roland

 

[Zakkmylde]

I believe that also. Always room for improvement. I'm currently having a tough time dialling tones. One day I like than next doesn't sound good or in band situation I'm not quite happy or cutting thought the mix. I'm new to boogie so it's a learning curve costing $2500

I've tried using clean for cleans and ch 2 for rhythm and 3 for lead. Not so successful yet. Al
So tried two separate tones on 2 &3 and using solo for each ch when time for leads. Just not getting there. I'm sure it will come at some point. Trying to achieve an Alice in Chains tone is harder than I thought with this amp. For me anyways.