Potential New JP2C Owner

[bandit2013]

Sweetwater is saying one won't arrive until July and that's tentative LOL!

How are the current vertical 2x12's with the JP2C?

Vert 212 is as close as you can get to the Standard 412 cab without it being a standard 412 cab.
Just a bit less volume but tone wise it has a good balance. I use the V212 with any of my amps that will fit, not because of smaller size to get more amps out on the floor, because they sound really good.

V212 is like that universal cabinet that will work with just about any amp. The first one I got with the JP2C in 2016 and I am still pushing it hard. The Horizontal 212 is quite different, deeper voice due to the depth of the cabinet. I much prefer the V212.

Mesa also has another 212 cab, it is a straight front diagonal arrangement. It maintains the 14 inch depth. Compared to the V212, only the bottom half will have the 14 inch depth as it tapers off a bit for the angled front. I would assume the diagonal will sound closer to the horizontal 212. Cost is the same as the V212. I wonder if the casters come with the cab or is it something you have to buy separately. Based on Mesa's website, the V212 comes with the casters, the diagonal does not. Sweetwater has a typo in the description on the diagonal, power is 120W not 60W. Almost thought I was looking at a oversized cab with one speaker.

 

[ntotoro]

That's primarily the reason interests me: getting the amp off the floor. The Bogner OS 2x12 is about 3/4 the height of a 4x12, so it does a good job of that. I want to try the vertical Mesa cab (fantastic deal on one locally) to try to get the best of both worlds: get the amp off the floor plus limit stage presence.

I do have the small "angled" 1x12, but that's more for home use.

 

[Darkstar2]

I really can't add to what Bandit said, but I own a 2020 2x12 vertical and a 2017 horizontal 2x12 and I prefer the horizontal. The vertical isn't bad per se, I just don't like the speaker pointed right at my head. Run cleans through it and dirt through two horizontal 2x12s.

I did score a like-new 2020 Friedman BE-412 during Guitar Center's recent used sales deal (paid $720 for the cab; after taxes and shipping it was $795) and it has two UK-made Green Backs up top and two Chinese V30s down low. I really dig it with my JP2C, it's fantastic at all volumes. I had been hunting for a Mesa traditional 4x12 or Bogner Ubercab, with the Friedman running in third place on the "want" scale. I absolutely was not disappointed!

I've got a 100 watt Ceriatone King Kong coming today and I'll be using the Friedman to dial it in. I'll probably use that combo together for the foreseeable future. Should I do a New Amp Day post on the KK?

 

[ntotoro]

Funny, that was gonna be my next question after reading your first paragraph LOL! Have you tried something like a GB or a lower-efficiency speaker in the top of the vertical 2x12?

 

[bandit2013]

Yeah, the beaming thing can get you. Sometimes I tell the guitar player to move so his body is blocking that effect while I am playing drums. He always seems to dial in the amp too bright.

Horizontal is great cab, just a bit darker tone. You get the same issue with any cab if the speakers have that characteristic. You get a better spread of sound from the EV as I have not found that beaming effect at the center of cone like I have with the V30. When you are offset from the cab and not right in front of it does sound better.

 

[ntotoro]

Is it darker because of the design or the sound beam? I've always been curious about a vertical 2x12 with a lower efficiency speaker at the top... maybe a 75-watt CB or something like that. A GB should be enough in a 2x12 (in conjunction with a V30), but...

 

[bandit2013]

Just for S&G while waiting for the communications services to be restored at home. Decided to slave the JP2C and Mark VII into each other. Not practical but with the Mesa switch track I can switch between amps and hear the preamp of one through the power section of the other. that includes the GEQ and any presence circuit.

I did dial in both amps to be as close as possible before slaving them to each other. Mark VII IIC mode into the JP2C return, I could not tell the difference as it sounded like the JP2C CH2 in most respects. CH2 of the JP2C into the Mark VII return, it sounded brighter through the Simul-Class power section. I was surprised that I did not have to adjust the channel volumes.

I like the sound of each amp. If the Mark VII was anywhere close to the Ice pick of my Mark V90, I would have returned the first one and bought another JP2C. Mark VII is actually

 

[bandit2013]

Is it darker because of the design or the sound beam? I've always been curious about a vertical 2x12 with a lower efficiency speaker at the top... maybe a 75-watt CB or something like that. A GB should be enough in a 2x12 (in conjunction with a V30), but...

I would not say the EV is darker, just different. EV speakers do not use a front vented voice coil like is common with the Celestion speakers. Those use a fabric dust cap and the driver is sealed, the exception is the C90 that is ported all the way through.

It could be due to the surface where the cone stops at the voice coil former. That is about the same diameter of the dust cap on the V30. EV has a much larger diameter VC and the dust cap is a stiff material like the cone. That in itself creates a different air pressure wave compared to the smaller voice coil speakers. There are also ribs and textures on the cone that aid to distribute the sound pressure waves. I would assume the shape of the cone also has some effect. In reality, all speakers will have that beaming effect, some more so than others.

If the angled cab is an issue with that top speaker, selecting one with more of a roll off on the upper frequency range would help. Just do not stand directly in front of it is my approach. The angled top 412 cab has the same issue, just a little louder. The CB has a different tone to it than the V30. RB may be a good fit though. If I had a 16-ohm version of that I would have tried it already. Tried the G12H75 CB + V30 trick in a 412 cab already. not for me. You get that odd sound as the response of each driver is different. The same could be said about the combo of V30 and EV (separate cabs or in the same cabinet, 412 only as the EV is not available in 16 ohms to pair up with the V30-16)

 

[ntotoro]

The Mark VII is actually what... ? I was waiting for that sentence to complete LOL!!!

Are the EV's what came in the metal-front Mesa cabs? My drummer has a 4x12 at his house that sounds fantastic! Clear and his crunchy hiss like some speakers can get. Won't blow your ears off, but isn't exactly dull.

Haven't tried a RB. Aren't they supposed to be dark? Or is that the Ruby... ? I don't even know anymore LOL!

 

[bandit2013]

oops, half of the message was cut. Not sure what happened there.

I like the sound of each amp. If the Mark VII was anywhere close to the Ice pick of my Mark V90, I would have returned the first one and bought another JP2C. Mark VII is actually ????

...... based on the JP2C platform. For me that was great as I could not stand the boxy overtones from the IVB or the Mark V90. More of a throwback to the roots of the better sounding mark amps. Pairs up extremely well with the V30 in a Recto cab and is excellent pairing with the EVM12L speaker. Using the EV as a reference, Mark IVB and the Mark V90 sounded sterile with the EV. It needed a speaker with coloring to sound better. More like a Celestion Cream back G12H75. Everyone has their own likes and dislikes. I would not doubt that some probably dislike the JP2C or the Mark VII.

When it comes to single coil pickups, or the blends with a super 5-way switch, I hear everything from the guitar and can appreciate the reverse wound pickup in that mix. The Mark VII has more different voicings to offer compared to the JP2C which was intended to be the reissue of a IIC+, just modernized since the LDRs are no longer made.

 

[bandit2013]

The Mark VII is actually what... ? I was waiting for that sentence to complete LOL!!!

Are the EV's what came in the metal-front Mesa cabs? My drummer has a 4x12 at his house that sounds fantastic! Clear and his crunchy hiss like some speakers can get. Won't blow your ears off, but isn't exactly dull.

Haven't tried a RB. Aren't they supposed to be dark? Or is that the Ruby... ? I don't even know anymore LOL!

The RB is the Red Back. Since you referenced the Cream back as CB, figured you would get the RB. 150W, 2 inch Voice Coil. It will take the heat from either amp. I tried to kill it in the Mark V90 combo pushing it hard with the JP2C amp. I pushed the volume up as much as I could and it just never caved in or broke itself. I have destroyed many C90 with just the Mark V90 amp. Dust cap will pop off at gig level use and that is with an open back cab. Probably why I do not favor combos unless it had an EVM speaker in it. If Mesa had the EV option, I would go for a combo in the Mark VII or even would entertain a JP combo. I do not care much for the C90.

As for the expanded metal grill cabs, not all made use of the EVM12L black shadow speaker. I was not aware the C90 existed back then but it did. that is what they used on the top half of the cab. There are some that are all EV speakers. Easy way to tell, take a flashlight and shine it on the dust cap, if you see any silver it is a C90 or V30. If you see a black dome, it is an EV or other. C90 have a fabric dust cap and you can see the magnet core with a flashlight. Also the top half of the cab will be an open back and just looking at the rear of the cab will reveal the C90 on top. The EV's did not have a label on them. It is not hard to tell from looking at the speakers, EV will have a thicker frame and the C90 is pressed steel and not as thick. Both speakers are front baffle mounted. Got the images from the web as I so not have one of these cabs. This is the shelf type, there are some that have the angle cut on the cab. Even the V212 version is similar. Not familiar with the older boogie cabs.

 

[ntotoro]

LOL!!! I prefer the H75 to the M65, every single time I've tired either or both. The M65 sounds good mixed with a V30, but I don't care for it on its own. Too muffled. Makes it nicer in a Plexi-type circuit, though.

I love what you say about the Mk VII, though, in regards to pickup positions!!! Is the JP2C the same in that regard? Now I keep thinking of the VII, just wished the modes were changeable via MIDI.

Thats the cab!!!! Next rehearsal I'll have to check it out and see what it is. It's not the typical V30 sound, but I know cabinet construction plays a big part. It sounds great with everything that plugs into it, from my Shiva to his master-volume JMP. Does a great job taking the extreme edge off amps.

 

[bandit2013]

JP2C and the Mark VII, they sound and react much the same with different pickups. I get what you are after, there seems to be a slight bit of more meat in the JP2C but that is it. Even the Badlander works great with the variety of different pickups. I do not play heavy metal all that much. Sure, these amps can do that stuff quite well, most of the pedal junkies will want to throw a boost/OD/distortion pedal on the front end. That works with all three as well, if that is your ideal thing to do. The amps also have other practical uses too. Not just heavy metal music. It is all good. So far, I only bought one dud of the full list in my signature. It was retired. Not sure what I am going to do with it yet.

 

[ntotoro]

I don't really want to goose it with a pedal, just want a channel for leads. That's why I was interested at first with the JP2C, but Crunch on the VII seems interesting and sounds good with the MkII or MkIV modes for leads.

The versatility of the VII seems cool, but I'd likely only use a clean, a crunch and a lead and never change modes. Hence, the JP2C LOL!

Do they both handle 7's well? I don't play extreme Metal or anything of the like, but do use a 7 occasionally.

 

[bandit2013]

Hell yeah, they run with the 7 quite well. Right out of the box, I had to run a 7 string through it as part of the learning curve experience.

You were after single coil sounds with the Mark VII? found this as it was easier than making a video myself. I may not agree with everything in the comments but that is fine and acceptable. We all have our own viewpoint.



Here is another that is not all Metallica wanabe. I have nothing against Metallica, just not something I want to hear on every Mesa Boogie demo or review as there are plenty of other styles of music that will reveal the true nature of the amp.



For a good shakedown on the Badlander, yeah, it is that good. Not all heavy stuff.



I am sure you saw plenty of JP2C videos by now. Most of them seem the same people playing the same songs with the other amps. Can you at least play something other than Metallica please? How does it CHUG? I do not care, can it do other things?

 

[ntotoro]

That's my issue with the JP2C videos... everyone wants to play super chugga or is a JP-wannabe. I just want to hear a variety of sounds. Maybe the VII is better at that, but I know the JP2C has to have that inside it.

The BAD sounds fantastic! Especially for that Whitesnake riff!!! Seems like the VII can pretty much do it all. I keep saying it, but I wished those modes were MIDI-selectable. It would make things interesting with my BOSS controller and loops for my pedals.

 

[bandit2013]

The JP2C has it as well, plenty of mojo in that amp so Metallica, Dream Theater or Liquid Tension Experiment knowledge is not required. If the amp draws you in, and you enjoy what you are hearing, chances are your audience may have the same enjoyment. When the amp works with you, you will perform better and focus more on what you are doing, you may even come up with something new or a different riff that happened by accident that would have not been noticed with an amp you fight with.

Yeah, I would agree, if the modes were midi controlled that would be cool.

 

[ntotoro]

That's a good point! They can sense when YOU are happy and playing well more than any frequency or amount of gain coming from your amp. I may just want to keep it simple with the JP2C. Three great, basic sounds that I know will work!

 

[rarebitusa]

That's my issue with the JP2C videos... everyone wants to play super chugga or is a JP-wannabe. I just want to hear a variety of sounds.

Yea it's hard to find that balance, plus so many YT are vids post processed. Good playing is cool, but to evaluate would rather hear someone just put their phone in the room and record some simple stuff.

The BAD sounds fantastic!

In that vid it does and IMO it's a pretty decent representation of the BAD tone. When cost is factored into the equation one can pick up a mint BAD 50 for substantially less then a VII or a JP2C . It's tonally not as versatile or have as many features, but if one likes it's core tone it may be worth considering.

 

[ntotoro]

That's why I've been tempted, especially now that the 50 has come down!!!!