Plugging in after a few years: SG sounds really "dark"

[dlabrecque]

When I last played through my 3-channel Dual Rectifier, it was with a Strat. Sounded great. That was a few years ago. That guitar was stolen a few months back, and now I'm down to a single SG. I plugged it in the other day, and there's almost no high end at all. Very, very dark. Same for all three channels. On the clean channel, if I crank up the treble and presence and cut the bass a bit, it sounds okay. But should I have to do that? (never used this guitar with this amp before)

Mesa told me it sounded like worn power tubes. I replaced the original four 6L6's with a single pair of new EL34's (and pulled a rectifier tube, as instructed in the manual) wanting to try the half-power mode. The guitar doesn't sound any brighter than with the old 6L6's.

Before replacing the power tubes I ran a line from the SEND to my Boss GT-10 and listened on headphones (wanted to rule out the preamp as the culprit). It sounded nice 'n' bright even with flat EQ settings.

But even new tubes didn't bring that brightness through the speaker cab (4x12 slant).

Should an SG sound that dark? My Strat sure didn't.

I'm in Tucson. Could the arid conditions here have dried out some power amp caps over the last seven years that could be rolling off all this high end?

I'm out of ideas... :?

 

[YellowJacket]

Where you running a fat strat or one with stock single coils. Do you have a Gibson SG or an Epiphone. Epiphones have lower output pickups and the ones from around ca 2002 were absolutely awful. They've improved a lot but they still don't compare to the Gibsons. What about the SG? Is it a '60s reissue or a standard? Does it have humbuckers or soap bars in it. I have a Gibson Les Paul Standard with burstbuckers in it and it has plenty of bite. I mean a PRS has more high end but the Gibson can run toe to toe with a strat unless something special is in the fender. I find if anything, the sound is more round and chunky. It purrs compared to a strat and the clean is warm, thick, and buttery.

You might want to check out some different pickup options. Seymour Duncan has some good ones. There are many other good pickup builders as well, all worth a look. I'm sure guys here will post some suggestions for you!

 

[mikey383]

Might want to try some new preamp tubes.

 

[dlabrecque]

Where you running a fat strat or one with stock single coils. Do you have a Gibson SG or an Epiphone. Epiphones have lower output pickups and the ones from around ca 2002 were absolutely awful. They've improved a lot but they still don't compare to the Gibsons. What about the SG? Is it a '60s reissue or a standard? Does it have humbuckers or soap bars in it. I have a Gibson Les Paul Standard with burstbuckers in it and it has plenty of bite. I mean a PRS has more high end but the Gibson can run toe to toe with a strat unless something special is in the fender. I find if anything, the sound is more round and chunky. It purrs compared to a strat and the clean is warm, thick, and buttery.

You might want to check out some different pickup options. Seymour Duncan has some good ones. There are many other good pickup builders as well, all worth a look. I'm sure guys here will post some suggestions for you!

Pretty standard Strat. All single coils. It's a Gibson SG standard from about 2002. Humbuckers.

It sounds sweet with plenty of top end in the headphones when plugged into the GT-10. :?:

 

[dlabrecque]

Might want to try some new preamp tubes.

Remember, I listened to the send (from the preamp), and it sounded fine -- plenty of nice top end. :?:

It only loses the top end when going through the power amp, apparently.

 

[Elpelotero]

It's possible your ears were accustomed to the brightness of the Strat. I say grab a friend's guitar and try it out again.

 

[dlabrecque]

It's possible your ears were accustomed to the brightness of the Strat. I say grab a friend's guitar and try it out again.

I don't think so. If I crank the treble and the presence all the way, it gets close to acceptable, but of course, it's a pretty extreme EQ setting, and sounds kind of harsh. And even then the real nice top end isn't quite there. It's like there's just nothing above 3 or 4 KHz to boost.

Again -- it sounds nice 'n' bright (not thin like a Strat, but full-bodied with fat lows and mids and a shiny top) coming out of the preamp. But dark has hell coming out of both cabs I have.

BTW, when I plug it into my old Peavey Studio Pro 40, it sounds fine. For transistors, that is. Bright, but sterile.

 

[skoora]

If the Peavey has a send or line out, try plugging that into the return of the Mesa and see how it sounds. Or could the GT-10 do this too?

 

[dlabrecque]

If the Peavey has a send or line out, try plugging that into the return of the Mesa and see how it sounds. Or could the GT-10 do this too?

Either could do that. But what would that show? Are you thinking that if the Dual Rec still sounds dark with that kind of input, it would prove that the top end is not coming through the power amp?

 

[andylaughs]

The 490T bridge pickup in my older Special also puts out a darker tone on my recto. It's the pickups/amp combo. I'm dropping a DiMarzio Fred in mine (have one in another guitar ... LOTs of high-end clarity). I've heard Gibson '57s and Duncan '59s sounding great through Mesas.

 

[skoora]

If the Peavey has a send or line out, try plugging that into the return of the Mesa and see how it sounds. Or could the GT-10 do this too?

Either could do that. But what would that show? Are you thinking that if the Dual Rec still sounds dark with that kind of input, it would prove that the top end is not coming through the power amp?

pretty much

 

[TexasFM3]

Bro,

I gotta go with the "Dark" you are hearing is the distinction made between Fender and Gibson guitars.

I have always played Gibson guitars whether they are Epi guitars (LP Custom, DOT) Gibson (LP Standard, SG Special). These guitars are naturally muddy guitars, well except for the DOT, but you get the pic.

Fenders on the other hand are hurtful to my ears... the amount of treble these things put out are horrid in my opinion ONLY. (I am sure there are a million folks out there that will disagree and a million folks that will agree)

I think what you are hearing is this distinction. What you consider no Treble is the fat sound of the Gibson and nothing to do with the MESA.

TexasFM3

 

[dlabrecque]

Looks like those of you who basically said "it sounds that way cuz that's the way it sounds" were correct.

I took the head to a local Mesa-authorized guy. He started running tones through it, and as soon as I saw that it was flat up to around 8 KHz, I knew it wasn't the amp.

I brought my guitar down the next day and plugged into a Triple Rec he had there, and it sounded the same. Who knew? Not me. Till now.

Now that I've accepted the fact that that's just how this guitar sounds through this amp, I've been much more comfortable with the bit of top end I can coax using the treble and presence controls. At least on the clean channel. I gotta say, though, that the high-gain channels still sound too dark to me.

Perhaps different humbucker pickups will sound brighter. Maybe there are impedance things going on with this particular combination of pickups and amp. I guess I'll come to know as I try different guitars out in the future...

Thanks, everyone, for your input on this.