Past a certain point, can you really go Wrong?

[Adam]

I was posting on the Diezel thread and found myself comparing a VHT to a Bogner in a "this is better for that" kind of way, and realized that I was being pretty silly.

Once you hit a certain price/quality bracket in high-gain channel-switching tube amps, can you really go wrong? It seems to me that within the 1500-3000 dollar range of this type of amp it all boils down to preference. Let's just look at the obvious contenders (lists are fun):

VHT Pittbull UL 100
Bogner Uberschall
Bogner Ecstacy 101B
Diezel VH4
Diezel Herbert
Engl Special Edition
Engl Powerball
Mesa Dual/Triple Recto
Mesa Road King
Mesa Mark IV
Soldano Lucky 13
Orange Rockerverb
Framus Cobra
Framus Dragon
CAE OD100
Rivera Knucklehead Reverb 100
Hughes and Kettner TriAmp
Marshall JCM 800 or Jubilee
Splawn Pro Mod
Splawn Quick Rod
THD Flexi 50
Mohave Peacemaker
Koch Multitone
Koch Twintone

Am I forgetting anything??

 

[mesa115]

Your right. If you think about the last large venue show you saw, say 5,000 plus people. From the sound in the fron of the house,could ANYONE including engineers from the companies you mentioned, tell the difference between those amps.

Think of all the monster hit records(Led Zep One, Are You Experienced, Dark Side of The Moon, any U2 recorded in the 80's) that was recorded on gear that is so obsolete you can't even buy it any more.

We all get nuts when we start to identify ourselves by the gear we use, me included.

 

[no soul]

I think of a few more amps that really deserve to be on that list (the SLO100!!!)

but I agree. Its all preference at a certain point.

ENGLs for example, to me sound like solidstate amps. People swear the smoke Mesa when it comes to metal and blah blah

 

[Grandor]

I agree with you there. IT all becomes preference.

I can't honestly look at my Mark IV, then look at my friends JTM45 then look at a Nomad 55 and then a Bogner XTC 101B and say one is better than the other.

For ME and the style of music I PLAY. Yeah sure, the mark IV is awesome. But the XTC has things the mark doesnt... then again the Mark has things the XTC doesnt have!

Man, I love amps. I'd sooner have 20 amps and 2 guitars, than 20 guitars and 2 amps!

 

[no soul]

I agree with you there. IT all becomes preference.

I can't honestly look at my Mark IV, then look at my friends JTM45 then look at a Nomad 55 and then a Bogner XTC 101B and say one is better than the other.

For ME and the style of music I PLAY. Yeah sure, the mark IV is awesome. But the XTC has things the mark doesnt... then again the Mark has things the XTC doesnt have!

Man, I love amps. I'd sooner have 20 amps and 2 guitars, than 20 guitars and 2 amps!

Id pick the 20 amps and guitars option, but Id rather have 20 amps and 20 guitars.

Actually cant really think of 20 guitars Id really like to have, but it couldnt hurt to have the same model with different colors. :twisted:

 

[WillShred4Food]

You know, I've never had any revelations on line (I'm serious I really haven't), but reading this thread I realized that I've squandered much of my time being identified by what gear I play instead of what music I play. It's been a miserable waste of time. I'm blue in the face already. The other day just for the hell of it I plugged into a cheap Randall solid state half stack, and it still sounded like me. It didn't sound like the Dual Rectifier, or as good for that matter, but it sounded like me. I read a brief interview with Dr. Know from Bad Brains and he said (I'm paraphrasing here) that a player should be able to sound good through a cheap combo as well as through an expensive trophy rig. This is coming from a guy that plays Tom Andersons through a back-line of Triple Rectifiers.

I'm all about my Dual Rectifier, and the next several boogies I plan on owning. It is, however, time for me to stop debating and start playing again. Back when all I could afford was a Crate I seemed to enjoy playing guitar more.

WillShred

 

[screamingdaisy]

I find most high gain amps sound pretty similar, one might be more upper mids and one more lower mids, darker/brighter, whatever....but they all have the same basic sound.

The main difference though is in feel. A Dual Recto feels nothing like a VHT Ultralead. The former is loose and saggy, the latter is tighter than a nuns c*nt. Most other of those amps will fall in the middle somewhere.

So yeah, they might all sound the same, but they all react different....one of the reasons that one guy will make an amp sound killer, and another will make it sound like ***. One just needs to find the one that reacts best to their playing style and be happy with it.

 

[TheRazMeister]

There's gotta be some sort of Marshall on that list. And I tried a Koch Twintone that held its own. (actually it blew away most of the mesa combos in the store)

I was posting on the Diezel thread and found myself comparing a VHT to a Bogner in a "this is better for that" kind of way, and realized that I was being pretty silly.

Once you hit a certain price/quality bracket in high-gain channel-switching tube amps, can you really go wrong? It seems to me that within the 1500-3000 dollar range of this type of amp it all boils down to preference. Let's just look at the obvious contenders (lists are fun):

VHT Pittbull UL 100
Bogner Uberschall
Diezel VH4
Diezel Herbert
Engl Special Edition
Engl Powerball
Mesa Dual/Triple Recto
Mesa Road King
Mesa Mark IV
Soldano Lucky 13
Orange Rockerverb
Framus Cobra
Framus Dragon
CAE OD100
Rivera Knucklehead Reverb 100
Hughes and Kettner TriAmp

Am I forgetting anything??

 

[scotspine]

There's gotta be some sort of Marshall on that list.

try a marshall 2x12 2104 jmp 50. traditional but it shreds ears at 100 yards.

 

[redmax61]

Right. There may be subtle differences here and there, but you can't go wrong with any of the higher end amps tone wise. It's the price that bothers me.

I played an Uberschall once, and I loved it. But I couldn't see paying $2500 for a head. I had a hard enough time letting loose of $1500 for my Dual Recto. I think it would be extremely cool to have an amp that just has a name like Herbert. But again, I might as well sell my wife and kids for it. What makes Herbert THAT much more expensive than a DR? Honestly!

Missing from the list-
Mojave Peacemaker
THD Univalve, Bi-valve, Flexi

 

[G.I.G.]

There's gotta be some sort of Marshall on that list.

It would be hard for me to put a Marshall on that list since most of the amps listed here are not mass produced like Marshalls are. Feel free to disagree with me on that, but I would put Marshall in the Crate, Fender, Line 6, Randall family of amps before any of the ones listed above.

 

[TheRazMeister]

Redmax....I owned a Crate V32 Palomino (class A 30 watt) for about 2 weeks prior to my ROV. At home, at living room volumes the thing was absolutely gorgeous sounding. Wolf tones, harmonics great clean etc. When I got it to practise at our church's sanctuary, a large room, the sound just died. It was plenty loud but something got lost in translation. I've never played a Bogner, THD, DR Z etc. but I get the same sort of inconsistency with the ROV when I go to a larger room. I'm constantly re-adjusting the Mesa. Maybe the higher dollar amps have better tonal range at different volumes...

Right. There may be subtle differences here and there, but you can't go wrong with any of the higher end amps tone wise. It's the price that bothers me.

I played an Uberschall once, and I loved it. But I couldn't see paying $2500 for a head. I had a hard enough time letting loose of $1500 for my Dual Recto. I think it would be extremely cool to have an amp that just has a name like Herbert. But again, I might as well sell my wife and kids for it. What makes Herbert THAT much more expensive than a DR? Honestly!

Missing from the list-
Mojave Peacemaker
THD Univalve, Bi-valve, Flexi

 

[G.I.G.]

You know, I've never had any revelations on line (I'm serious I really haven't), but reading this thread I realized that I've squandered much of my time being identified by what gear I play instead of what music I play. It's been a miserable waste of time. I'm blue in the face already. The other day just for the hell of it I plugged into a cheap Randall solid state half stack, and it still sounded like me. It didn't sound like the Dual Rectifier, or as good for that matter, but it sounded like me. I read a brief interview with Dr. Know from Bad Brains and he said (I'm paraphrasing here) that a player should be able to sound good through a cheap combo as well as through an expensive trophy rig. This is coming from a guy that plays Tom Andersons through a back-line of Triple Rectifiers.

I'm all about my Dual Rectifier, and the next several boogies I plan on owning. It is, however, time for me to stop debating and start playing again. Back when all I could afford was a Crate I seemed to enjoy playing guitar more.

WillShred

Well put WillShred. You're right, it's all about how you play. I read a Guitar World aricle with Jerry Cantrel and someone asked him about his rig, how he get's his tone, etc. He replied with a comment that you would probably expect from someone like him...."Tone is all in your fingers". He said that when he was on tour with VH a while ago that Eddie plugged in with Jerry's guitar and played through Jerry's rig. Jerry said it sounded exactly like Eddie, even through a different rig.

On the same coin however, you could argue that if ALL of your tone came from you fingers, that everyone would be playing a $200 solid state combo amp with a Fender Squier guitar. I know I would be in a lot less debt if that were the case. While your fingers are the most important aspect of your rig, having a great sounding amp, guitar, etc. certainly add to it.

Something else I'd like to point out along those lines, is that if you have sweet gear, you're more inclined to play and practice more often. At least that's the case with me. I leave my Dual Rec at my drummers house and for the longest time I was playing a POS little combo amp at home. I could barely play long enough to learn a new song for my band with that thing, much less play for fun. Once I got my Rect-O-Verb to use at home, I've found myself playing much more than I used to, which will ultimately make me a better player.

 

[radair]

You know, I've never had any revelations on line (I'm serious I really haven't), but reading this thread I realized that I've squandered much of my time being identified by what gear I play instead of what music I play. It's been a miserable waste of time. I'm blue in the face already. The other day just for the hell of it I plugged into a cheap Randall solid state half stack, and it still sounded like me. It didn't sound like the Dual Rectifier, or as good for that matter, but it sounded like me. I read a brief interview with Dr. Know from Bad Brains and he said (I'm paraphrasing here) that a player should be able to sound good through a cheap combo as well as through an expensive trophy rig. This is coming from a guy that plays Tom Andersons through a back-line of Triple Rectifiers.

I'm all about my Dual Rectifier, and the next several boogies I plan on owning. It is, however, time for me to stop debating and start playing again. Back when all I could afford was a Crate I seemed to enjoy playing guitar more.

WillShred

I play my Strat through a Top Hat and a LSS for stereo with a Fulltone TTE and you know what? I absolutley love my $125 Roland Cube (w/ phaser & reverb) when I play with headphones. Like you said it's "me." Being a huge Steely Dan fan for years (yeah, I'm an old guy), I learned that often, less is more. Having said that, my stereo set-up is becoming "me." I have to admit that I sometimes wonder if we're more into gear than music. I've been playing jazz / fusion / rock for 40 years and I still can't keep up with the lingo on these boards. Now that I've found the ultimate amp (sorry folks, it's the Top Hat), I'm finally ready to stop buying amps and learn the art of the tweak...as long as it doesn't interfer with my three hours a day of playing...retired at 54.

Any other TTE owners out there (golly, is this hippocracy, or what?) $900 is a lot to spend for an effect, but once you hear it, I doubt anyone would think it wasn't worth it.

You have some true insight Will..."more" can be a disease that will eventually suck the life out of what's most important...the music. Do you suppose the folks over at the sax and trumpet boards are getting board...or are they practicing?

Sincerely,
Techno-stupid-plays-a-lot...you can call me Rick

 

[G.I.G.]

I sometimes wonder if we're more into gear than music.

That very well could be in some cases. I'm guilty of being a "gear head" myself. My friends and family that don't play guitar always ask my "why do you need anothe guitar or why did you spend so much for that amp?". Those are the people that don't understand our obbsession. I couldn't see how people would pay over $1K for a set of golf clubs, but then again, I don't golf. Playing guitar is my #1 hobbie and that encompasses the gear side of it too. Honestly, I don't know that I'll ever stop buying guitars. There's always one that sounds a little bit better or has something special about it that I don't have in any other guitar I own but I want it. I guess that's how I justify my guitar obsession to myself.

I have a friend that is a way better drummer than I am a guitar player, and yet he's playing middle of the road gear. There's nothing wrong with that, but if that's what you're really passionate about and spend a lot of time doing, why not get the best gear?

Needless to say, I'm a bad influence on my musician friends.

 

[Adam]

Right. There may be subtle differences here and there, but you can't go wrong with any of the higher end amps tone wise. It's the price that bothers me.

I played an Uberschall once, and I loved it. But I couldn't see paying $2500 for a head. I had a hard enough time letting loose of $1500 for my Dual Recto. I think it would be extremely cool to have an amp that just has a name like Herbert. But again, I might as well sell my wife and kids for it. What makes Herbert THAT much more expensive than a DR? Honestly!

Missing from the list-
Mojave Peacemaker
THD Univalve, Bi-valve, Flexi

List updated to reflect recent additions.

I heard that a Diezel costs a lot more than a similarly-designed Boogie in the US because of the domestic/oversees differences. A german poster on HC mentioned that in Germany, a Herbert costs the equivelant of about $1600 where a Boogie runs the equivalent of $3k - $4k.

Seems fair. Kinda.