"organic"?

[jeffp]

OK......whats everyone opinion or explanation of "organic" referring to the ED?....tones organic? help me!jeffp

 

[screamingdaisy]

I think it's an overused term and I don't put a lot of value in it as a descriptor as it's basically a subjective opinion. Just because someone thinks an amp feels/sounds organic doesn't mean I won't think it feels/sounds like ****.

Beyond that, the word organic has to be judged in context. Is the person talking organic in terms of an amp sounding natural? And what is exactly natural sounding about an electric guitar amp turning magnetic vibrations into distortion? Is the person talking in terms of dynamic response? And how do I know how dynamic we're talking when someone's idea of dynamic may mean "gain on 10 and pounding out riffs like they're playing an on/off switch".

 

[BostonRedSox]

About my usage of the term. For me, when I have stated that the ED is very organic sounding (a term I don't use on many amps), I mean that the breakup doesn't sound like your normal, preamp section driven, high gain distortion tones. The way the ED breaks up, to my ears at least, it is very, very close (in sound and FEEL) to a Marshall 1987x. With the Marshall, cranked at ungodly loud tones, there is something about how the power tubes breakup at loud volumes that is very, for lack of a better word, organic sounding. Everything is so controlled by your pick attack, yet at the same time, there is this natural pushed, tube breakup happening because of how driven the tubes are in both tube sections. I haven't played many amps that replicated that awesome sensation, mainly because most amps I play are higher gain amps that use copious amounts of preamp gain. I like preamp gain too (a lot mind you), but to me it is just a different sound.

I feel like amps with a lot of preamp gain, while sounding absolutely magnificent, also add a lot of compression and leave more room for more noise (less harmonics) than amps that have no master volume and rely on a good mix of preamp and powertube gain.

 

[YellowJacket]

This amp feels liquid, spongy, crunchy, and really sweet to play. It is probably partly due to the simulclass operation. Organic is a stupid word, but the Electra Dyne definitely is far more elegant than a Dual Rectifier. The trade off is that a Dual Rectifier feels so much more aggressive and urgent.

 

[J.J]

All subjective terms like Organic, dark, bright, smooth and thick mean differnt things to people. So the followinf may mean nothing to anyone else :mrgreen:

For me the "Organic" reference to the ED means that the amp lives and breaths. The dynamics and the way the sound changes by varying how you play are so varied it amazes me. In comparision my Express 5:25 can sound very sterile and lifeless. The Express by nature has a lot more compression and I think that is why it sounds stiff and sterile etc.

There are some good descriptions of why the ED is "orgainc" in the manual. I'll try and find them and put them up here if I do.

 

[dodger916]

To me organic is a subjective comparitive term, like the difference between a solid state amp and a tube amp. For instance, a Fender Deluxe Reverb sounds more organic than a Line 6; a Mark II (with simpler signal path) is more organic sounding and feeling than a Mark V; to some vinyl records sound more organic than cds; sky blue appears more organic than irridescent yellow; etc.. For me, organic applies as much to the feel of an amp as its sound, and some will prefer things that I might characterize as less organic.

Organic, as applied to amps, implies an overall experience (sound, feel) that fits better into one's expectations of the natural world, or that seems to be derived more directly from the natural world. While the differences between two amps can be described in more detailed specific terms, or maybe even quantified, organic is a way of summarizing an overall experience.

 

[jeffp]

keep it coming. i really have to give a lot of thought when someone says organic about a guitar amp..........and i`m left stumped! jeffp

 

[primal]

For me when I say organic I mean less compressed, more responsive to picking dynanmics (fancy way of saying how hard you pick).

More raw sounding, less neat.

For instance, while I think the 5150/6505 is a killer amp for what it does, it is the opposite of organic in my view.

For me the MOST organic sound would be something in the plexi class.

So for me organic is good, but to others what I consider organic they may use the term sucks

 

[jeffp]

wow.........i learn something every day!..........keep it coming guys!

 

[BostonRedSox]

For me when I say organic I mean less compressed, more responsive to picking dynanmics (fancy way of saying how hard you pick).

More raw sounding, less neat.

For instance, while I think the 5150/6505 is a killer amp for what it does, it is the opposite of organic in my view.

For me the MOST organic sound would be something in the plexi class.

So for me organic is good, but to others what I consider organic they may use the term sucks

+1

Exactly. This is what I was stating before too.

 

[primal]

For me when I say organic I mean less compressed, more responsive to picking dynanmics (fancy way of saying how hard you pick).

More raw sounding, less neat.

For instance, while I think the 5150/6505 is a killer amp for what it does, it is the opposite of organic in my view.

For me the MOST organic sound would be something in the plexi class.

So for me organic is good, but to others what I consider organic they may use the term sucks

+1

Exactly. This is what I was stating before too.

For some reason I missed your original post but agree 100% as well with everything you stated.

 

[guywithboogie]

Just like with organic food; nothing artificial is added.
For an amp, to me this means it doesn't color the sound with compression and lets the real tone of your guitar shine through. Feel wise, what you put in is what you get out.

I'm not saying that a non organic amp doesn't have feel or sound great, it's just that my guitars all sound a bit more alike and the sounds always have the same character whether I'm full on with the volume or backed off a bit.

For me I couldn't only live with the ED and I couldn't only live with a DR. Variety is the spice of life.

 

[YellowJacket]

Wife, kid, family, school.... I'd love not to have to 'make due' with one high power tube amp but it looks like I'll have to.

 

[jeffp]

thats some pretty good stuff guys. Thanks for the input! I guess the ED is a very good choice for a hobbyist after all! jeffp

 

[jeffp]

and for classic rock especially!

 

[BostonRedSox]

Yes, but remember what I was saying to you weeks ago JEFFP, the ED has a LOT of low end to it. It can get a nice lower midrange Marshall crunch going, but you are also going to have some more low end than you would normally associate with classic rock tones. The ED is a fantastic amp in any event! You are going to love it.

 

[YellowJacket]

Yes, but remember what I was saying to you weeks ago JEFFP, the ED has a LOT of low end to it. It can get a nice lower midrange Marshall crunch going, but you are also going to have some more low end than you would normally associate with classic rock tones. The ED is a fantastic amp in any event! You are going to love it.

Well, that is what the bass knob is for on the amp I also use bass cut pickups with my guitars which really helps out a lot with Mesa amps.

The Electra Dyne definitely has as much low end as a Dual Rectifier but the cleans have even more 'lower' bass frequencies. The cleans can be dialed in to be very rich, which is awesome! They are also elastic, bouncy, chimey, and resilient. I think the thing I love about my Electra Dyne is that it does everything I love about a Mesa along with everything I love about a Marshall. It isn't simply a Fender Blackface, a Plexi, and a JCM800 in the same box. It is a unique piece that not many people have and it really is a one of a kind tone.

 

[J.J]

+1

What are the bass cut pickups ? I haven't heard of that. I did choose a set of Bareknuckle Mules based on their lower bass output with stronger mids and highs.

 

[YellowJacket]

Basically pickups that have an EQ with a low bass output in relationship to the other frequencies. My bridge pickup on my Les Paul is a Bare Knuckle Rebel Yell and my bridge pickup on my Godin is a Seymour Duncan Custom Custom.

 

[jeffp]

I have Lace Sensor Hot Golds. I wonder if resetting the pickup height a hair different would do just as well.jeffp