New Member: Guitar Store Horrorstory.

[Evan Grubbs]

This is my first post -- I've been lurking here for a while now, learning about tube amps, guitar tone and all the good things that go along with that.

Today, I decided that I would test out my newly acquired theoretical knowledge on some real guitars and real amps.

I have three guitars: A satin Strat, a BC Rich Bich and a Samick Metalhead. These are three very different guitars with very different tones and capabilities. I figure that I would need to try the equivalent to each guitar on an amp to see what it would sound like.

I drive to my local guitar store (Roxy Music), which is 30 miles from my house, to test out amps.

When I arrive, I look around the store for a minute and someone asks me if I need help. I tell them that I want to know which of their amps are tube, which are hybrid and which are solid state. Firstly, the salesman lies to me and tells me that quite a few non-tube amps are really tube amps. Last time I checked, the Peavey TransTube series wasn't an "all tube" amp.

I wanted to see what humbuckers would sound like first, so I picked up a Tony Iommi signature Epiphone to emulate my Bich. It sounded and played like crap so I put it back and decided to try out the Strat instead. I used a Standard Strat and played each tube amp for around 5 minutes a piece. There were around 8 amps that I played, some for more or less than five minutes depending on goodness. With the strat, I mostly did clean jazzy stuff and semi/dirty bluesy stuff to test out the clean part of the amp. I turned the amps up about 1/4th of the way, 'cos I didn't want to be too loud and disturb anyone in the store. I finished the test with the strat and decided to test out three of the amps that I really liked on the dirty channel. I went and picked out an Epiphone Flying V to emulate my Samick and went to play on the Peavey XXX 2x12 combo. I played for around six minutes before I couldn't stand to play on the V anymore. It was sticky, the strings were rusted and everything about it stunk, so I decided it would be best to go with a lower priced Gibson Les Paul to emulate my BC Rich.

When I went to grab the Paul, the manager came up to me and said, "Are you trying out amps or guitars?" I told him that I wanted to see how many different kinds of tones I could get with the amps that I liked and he said, "I think you're done with the amps."

I couldn't believe it. I was so flustered and confused that I left the store immediately, leaving my pile of picks on an amp.

I drove around for a while and called back and asked to speak to the manager.

I asked him if I was causing a problem and he said in a very stern voice, "Listen pal, I don't have to explain myself to you." I asked again why I was practically forced out of the store and he replied, "You were playing WAY too loud!" I asked if I was disturbing any of the customers, which had all been waving to me and smiling at me and he replied, "We're trying to run a business here and talk on the phone and you were in here for a really long time." I told him that I really wanted to buy an amp and that what he did was really rude and he said that he was "more than hospitable" to my needs. I told him that from what I understood, you can't try out a tube amp at 1/4 volume to really get a feel for it's tone and response. He said, "You know, we have a room in the back for that!" I said, "You didn't even tell me about that, though... you just told me to stop playing." He said, "I just called it like I saw it."

I couldn't take it anymore and I let him know what an ******* he was being in words a little to explicit for public viewing, then hung up on him.

I have never been so embarassed or distressed in a store my entire life. I've never been treated in such a rude manner. I thought I was doing them a FAVOR by only playing 1/4 of the way up. How am I supposed to judge the tone of a 50 watt amp if I'm not even allowed to overdrive the tubes?

Would you buy a car if you could only drive it 15mph on a back road? The guitar is my vehicle and the amp is my terrain. If I can't test more than one vehicle on the same terrain and more than one terrain with the same vehicle, I can't make an informed decision.

I just really wanted to share this with someone.

Thanks for bearing with me on my first post.

 

[RR]

That story pretty much top my worst time at this one particular Guitar Center.

Actually I was at this one shop (it was NOT Guitar Center) and everything I said, salesperson contridicted.

I talked about wood resonance and he said tone is in the guitar pickups.

Tube amplifications: his response: "Don't get caught up with it has to be 'tubes', there some good solid state out there.

We talked about Gibson, his response over-rated, you better off with Ibanez, Kramer Focus, Charvel/Jackson.

I mentioned I like guitar blues and classic rock 70's, =>he's reponse: old-fashion, bring it to this decade 80s, (this was peak of the hair band days).

I don't know what's his problem. He plays his meanest licks on a Focus through a Randall. He sounded o-kay, but I was NOT impress at all. He thought I was. So he got the impression he was superior in knowledge.

I'm surprise he still in business.

 

[Evan Grubbs]

It's unbelievably embarassing to meet people like that. It happens to me a lot in other parts of life, because I'm really quiet and not argumentative, salesman usually get the best of me.

I wish I could have talked to the first salesman about the solid states he lied about. I wonder if he does that to everyone?

 

[Guitarzan]

Wow... ya gotta laugh at the people they hire at these places! I have fun with the people at our local GuiTarget(Guitar Center), I'm amused by the blank stares and shoulder shrugs I always get. I think their training vocabulary consists of Humbucker, Tube, Strings, Solid State, Fender and Gibson. Once they master the 6 most common words their ready to hit the floor! I tend to favor the small local shops, because that's where the players are. They know what they want and it's not a cookie cutter Volkswagon of a guitar. Ok stepping off the box.

 

[Evan Grubbs]

That's why I came to this store in the first place. It's a small guitar store. They've always been a little iffy on the salesman, but I've heard people testing out amps there before fullblast, being obnoxious, playing the same Lynyrd Skynyrd that everyone else plays here, and no one bothered anyone.

The closest Guitar Center actually has more knowledgable people and more devoted employees than half the "local" shops.

 

[Guitarzan]

That's why I came to this store in the first place. It's a small guitar store. They've always been a little iffy on the salesman, but I've heard people testing out amps there before fullblast, being obnoxious, playing the same Lynyrd Skynyrd that everyone else plays here, and no one bothered anyone.

The closest Guitar Center actually has more knowledgable people and more devoted employees than half the "local" shops.

Parallel Universe? :?

 

[JamesD]

It's a shame to hear a story like this. I have actually had very good experiences with the guitar center in my area. Well it is 2 hours away but not too bad. Very nice people there. There is also a Samash right down the road and i will never walk into that store again.

I went looking for a new head, before i bought my Dual rectifier. I was looking at the Peavey XXX head and a few others that i wanted to give a try. Well they had the same marshall 4x12 that i run. So i kindly asked if i could hook up the XXX head to the marshall cabinet to see what the sound was going to be like. The salesman then told me to give it a shot through this 2x12, i can't remember what brand but not a bigger name at all.

So i went ahaed and played through the 2x12 and was hating the sound of it. So i asked again about hooking up to the marshall and he said, you didn't like the 2x12? I told him no, and he basically said i couldn't move the amp to that cabinet, so i walked out.

Sorry for the long post, but these situations suck.

 

[cvansickle]

You would think that in order to survive in the age of the Guitarget and Sam ***, the smaller stores would beef up their customer service even more. Sadly, I'm not finding this to be the case anymore. The smaller stores seem to be giving up. They seem to have the mind set of "screw the customers - they'll come in here and try stuff, but then they'll drive over to GC and buy it there because GC can sell it cheaper."

 

[E_R]

Remember guys...music stores hire "salesmen" not gear experts, sadly.
I have always thought they should make their salesmen have a couple areas of "expertise".
I know that's not going to happen, even though West L.A music "clamis" they do.
Every time anyone goes in there, you find something you like , ask the price and they answer "what's the lowest price you have found". People reply " this is the first place I came because I heard you had great prices" they reply "go look other places and we'll beat the best price you find". That's good business send a buying customer away to other stores...by the time you do all the driving around you have wasted any "their deal" money on gas LOL.

Best thing to do..read everything you can online about the products your interested in. Hell, I would go to a lot of the clubs/bars in L.A/HW just to hear diff amps and such, then talk to the owners of said equipment, see what they have to say.

When you do find those few amps, go in saying your ready to buy and you need to use the isolation room, if they say no..tell them ok I'll spend my cash elsewhere.
.....and those small stores wonder why they are going out of business...I say let them all burn in hell...LOL

gee think I have had this problem in the past LOL



My question....why didn't you just bring an instrument of your own?
I always have...

Oh and the reason he was trying to interest you in "lesser" products...that's what they have the highest profit margin on, but that's business 101.

 

[Evan Grubbs]

I really thought about bringing in my Bich or my metalhead but it just felt like a weird thing to do. I suppose I could have called ahead and asked but judging by the response that I got from the manager, I would have enraged him no matter what I'd done.

I completely dig what you're saying, E_R. I've been reading all about tube amps and trying to learn everything I can, but it's always so much better to have someone who knows what they're talking about SHOW you. I'm so much more of a visual person.

And here's a little follow up to the story:

I went another 30 miles in the other direction from my hometown to a guitar store called Rubino's. It's a great little place and the owner knows everything about PA's, sadly, nothing about guitars or tube amps.

When I went in, the only salesperson in the store walked right up to me and asked me what I needed. I told him that I wanted to look at amps. He saw I was wearing an Emperor shirt and immediately said, "YOU NEED A 100 WATT FULL STACK OR ELSE YOU'LL NEVER GET HEARD OVER ANY DRUMMER!!! IT COSTS $4000.00 BUT YOU MIGHT AS WELL SAVE NOW INSTEAD OF BUYING THIS STUFF LATER IF YOU GET A COMBO!"

So I pretty much ignored him and left, then went to Guitar Center.

At Guitar Center, my salesperson "Heathen" took me to every tube amp they had, cranked it as loud as it would go and let me do everything I wanted to it. I told him I couldn't afford a Marshall JCM2000, so he said, "We have this B-52 combo, it's decent..." and I tried it out, again, with HIM turning the knobs and volumes to full blast while I felt out every nook and cranny of the amp. He didn't really know what he was talking about, but I think he did the perfect thing that someone in that position can do: He let me fool around until something right happened.

The problem is, I still don't really know too much about tube amps. The B-52 sounded great to my ears, but I'm not to a point where I'm able to tell good from great. I'll probably end up getting it though, 'cos $750.00 is all I'll probably be able to spend at one time on an amp.

 

[JamesD]

Glad to hear you had a better experience.

 

[Platypus]

That first store story is complete bullshit, I would have been furious if that happened to me.

I've had similar experiences with 'salesmen' before.. I went into a smaller local shop where I had picked up one of my PRS guitars in the past and there was a new guy working the counter. I asked to see one they had in the back hanging and he started grilling me about why I wanted to play it. "Do you realize how expensive these guitars are? Maybe you should try something a little cheaper... We don't let just *anyone* play these." At this point the owner came out who is a friend and overheard the tail end of the conversation and was like HE BOUGHT A PRS FROM US! The new salesguy looked super embarassed and got it down right away for me to try out.

Sometimes you just get the bad apples.. and sometimes it is justified.. I know I wouldn't want any random person off the street to just manhandle any guitar in the shop, but if you're seriously there to purchase something there is NO excuse for the way you were treated, from a manager to boot.

If these guys have any web presence at all I would write this story elsewhere so others don't give this ******* any business.

 

[cvansickle]

It does pay to establish a good business relationship with a store owner and some of the employees too. You will be treated better, you will get better deal offers, and they will network for you with other customers and vendors.

My favorite store here in Atlanta, Atlanta Discount Music, is one I've been going to for 22 years, same owner but lots of personnel and one location change. Nevertheless, the owner has always been a friend, and he lets me try everything and he even makes recommendations for me. When my first apartment was robbed in 1985, and I lost an amp that I had bought from his store, he helped me replace it at store cost !(I had no renters insurance at the time - DUMB - don't let it happen to you!) Since then, almost every amp I've ever owned and several guitars (four current ones) have come from that store.

Another favorite of mine for years was Reliable Music in Charlotte, NC. I used to travel to Charlotte (from Atlanta) once a month between 1985 and 1989, and each trip I always spent an afternoon at Reliable. It didn't take long for the owner and several staff members to recognize me and call me by name, and they all helped me a great deal with purchases. I bought two guitars from them and numerous pedals and accessories in that time, and they of course would let me try anything and everything I wanted to play. This place was as big as a superstore itself, but I heard it was the arrival of MARS to Charlotte that did them in. Crap, Reliable was waaaaaaaaaaay better than any MARS or GC I've ever seen! They even came out with their own cool store t-shirts every year. I still have them.

 

[stokes]

I read your story and I really find it hard to sympathize with you.You didnt go into the store to buy an amp,you went in as you said "to test out my newly acquired theoretical knowledge on some real guitars and amps".Guitars and amps you dont own and had no intention on buying.I have to think that perhaps the sales people and manager more likely saw thru your "game".You spent what sounds like more than an hour jerking around with a number of guitars( you said one of the axes was sticky and had rusted strings..I wonder how it got that way) and amps.You cant expect a business to just give you free reign and run thru every piece of equiptment,so you can test out your newly acquired knowledge, without wondering what you were up to.These people are in the store 8-12 hrs a day listening to every kid in town play the latest hit and walk out without buying.After a number of years these people can recognize the real buyer from the guy who comes in to waste their time.Look,I know there are many sales people out there who are rude and dont know ****,but I cant see a manager letting a real sale walk out for no other reason except that they could see what you were up to.If enough people come in and "try out" every axe on the wall,they arent new axes anymore,are they?You "went to grab the Paul" as you said to emulate your BC Rich.A Les Paul is not a BCRich.And I am sorry but you dont just "grab" a top of the line Gibson with out asking first.If I was the manager of a music store I would step in at that point too.Look if I am wrong I apologize,but I suspect there was more to this scenario than you stated.If I was really looking to buy an expensive tube amp I would have an idea of a few I wanted to try and try them with one axe until I narrowed it down and then ask if I could use an ax similar to the one I actually owned.From the depiction you gave of what went down it doesnt sound like you gave the impression you were in the store for any other reason than to as you said "test out your newly acquired knowledge".The guy is in business to sell,not have his store used as a demo for new gear.

 

[Evan Grubbs]

I absolutely understand your point of view and I'm sure the manager probably thought the same thing.

You do suggest things that I did, though. The amps that they carry aren't ones I am familiar with. The ones I did know about were the Epiphone Valve Jr. and the Peavey XXX. They used to have different amps when I was younger like the 5150 and even some used Mesas, which I've been reading about extensively.

I took one guitar to play on all the amps with, found it played and sounded like crap, and decided to use another to be more accurate. I took that guitar to all the amps. I went to take another guitar to the amps that I had narrowed down, but it also was terrible and played like crap, so I went to use another one. Obviously, a Les Paul is not a BC Rich, but for what they had in the store, it was the closest guitar. Even in the reviews I read before I bought the Bich, someone had written "this guitar is really close to a Paul" and that stuck with me. Now, to go and grab a $2,000 guitar would have been silly, so I was going to use one they had for $750, which is only $50 away from what my Bich cost.

You point of view would also apply more if I hadn't bought nearly every piece of equipment in the last eight years that I've owned from that store. Two guitars, two amps, all my strings, all my guitar processors and everything that went along with starting guitar, being in a band and whatnot.

As it were, I was looking to buy an amp. If I had found something that really blew my mind, I would have left the store with it or at least put money down on it. I wasn't given that chance, however.

That being said, I absolutely disagree with that style of management. Even if I had just been a punk kid wasting someone's time, don't you think that you could have suggested that a salesman approach and try to make a sale or at least try to communicate?

I also have never been one to intrude where I'm not wanted. If I had felt in the least bit like I was doing something inappropriate, I would have stopped.

And finally, as for the strings being rusted and guitars being sticky - I know for a fact that the V has been there for over five years, unless they keep restocking the same model in the same place. The guitars they had weren't adjusted properly and they weren't well maintained. There's another store that's even further away than this one that I've been to a few times and everytime I've been there, I either bought a guitar, learned really amazing tips and tricks, or put something on layaway. The owner and his wife are the only salespeople. Everyone else in the store that works for him are there to keep people occupied until they can see Bill or his wife. I really wish I had gone there, but it was a little too far for me.

 

[RR]

stokes:

Work in a restaurant, and you tell me what's a rude customer. I seen it all.

I know boutique shops where I drop by, whether you're a begineer or a season professional, and whether you are buying from them or trying things out or asking questions, they'll attend to you because they want your future business.

To me Evan Grubbs had a bad experience. I and friend had a similar experience. We go to this one music shop and my friend asked if we could play this bass. They kid salesperson says "yes", go gets a chord. He looks at his watch 5 minutes later, he pulls the cable out and saids: "your times up."

Same day, we got to another shop. We want to try out a bass. The salesperson says: "There's an isolation room. Take the bass there, if you have any questions, just call for me."

We had no difference in attitude. Why did the first shop treat us that way and why did the second did not? Answer two different shops, two different attitudes toward their customers.

 

[stokes]

I am not saying there arent shops and salespeople with bad attitudes.And in my 35+ yrs involvement with playing and fixing equip.I would have to say there are probably more rude salespeople out there than not.But by his own admission in his first post he went in there to test out his newly acquired knowledge etc,never mentioned he was interested in any amp at all.I just find it hard to believe that a store manager is going to let a legit buyer walk out let alone throw one out of the store if there werent more to the story. By his own admission he only went in to "test out his newly acquired...".You say you work in a restaurant,how long would you put up with a customer who came in and wanted to try everything on the menu?It wouldnt happen.I know a muscal inst.dealer has to put up with someone trying out different equip.,but after a while they can tell who is in there to jerk around and who is there to buy.His second post he says he has purchased a lot of equiptment from this store,if that is true and the manager threw him out for no good reason then I dont see how the place could be in business,and by all means he shouldnt go in there again.By reading his first post,in my opinion,it doesnt seem to me that he went in acting like he was a customer.I am sorry but I would never go in a store and grab for a Les Paul without asking,after spending over an hour trying out 8 or more amps and numerous axes.Its "customers" like this that make store managers less tolerant.And if he wasnt one of these type "customers" he didnt get that point across in his description of the incident in his first post,and I dont see where he was so greatly wronged by his description of the scenario.I am merely giving my opinion based on what he wrote,and if I missed something,I apologize.And we all know about opinions.It just annoys me that a lot of musicians think the local music store is some kind of playground,and then get offended when the store doesnt put up with their antics.Again if I missed something or you left something out that would tell me otherwise,I apologize.

 

[MesaENGR412]

The place where I bought my Triple Recto has an upstairs in it where they give guitar lessons during the day. (practically the whole time the store's open) They sell Mesa, Orange, Vox, and now Krank. ALL of it is Tube, and the first time I went in there to try out a Dual recto, a sales rep, who was quite cool, and owns one of the first 500 Triple Recto 2 channels, plugged it in and turned it up a little. I started playing through the amp, and it wasn't 2 minutes until the manager came up and told us (he was still standing there messing with the volume and eq for me) to turn it down becuase of the guitar lessons. I was like WTF?? You have all of these tube amps and are a local, small music store...and yet are the only Mesa dealers in Greensboro, NC, but you can't friggin' turn up the amps past a wisper becuase heaven forbid you make a sale of a 2000 dollar amp over some little kid trying to learn Smoke on the Water. When I took guitar lessons, we were interrupted all the time with phone calls, and customers, and it didn't effect how I play now....it's just so stupid....so many people just don't think when they speak. pissed me off. Anyways, I bought the amp for the cool guy, making sure the sale was in his name. I wasn't about to let that other dick get any credit for the $3,100 custom ordered half stack. That's one of my stories, not as interesting but still "grinds my gears'' haha

-AJH

 

[stokes]

Now that is a legit horrorstory.The guy was an obvious ***.If I were the sales guy I would have given the manager hell for almost blowing a major sale.Here in NYC we have 48th St.The whole block at one time had 8 or 10 different music stores.There was a lot of competition and yet you still had a lot of idiot sales people.But Sam Ash took care of the competition by taking over the whole street almost.Even Manny's which was one of the best instrument dealers at one time is now sadly owned by Sam Ash.You want to see rude sales people,just take a trip down 48th St sometime.

 

[RR]

stokes:

Evan's played on the guitar the opening of Stairway to Heaven then the salesperson said: "I heard enough, out you go!" Lol ...

Evan's, I'm kidding! I just don't want this post to escalate into some kind of nasty argument.