New group?

[es336td]

I see a Mark and DC group. Would it be possible to create an SOB group for us owners of the red headed step child of the Boogie world? Just curious.

 

[Geiri]

Please educate me. Wtf is an sob ???

 

[GIG4FUN]

Please educate me. Wtf is an sob ???

it was an earlier attempt at a Mark I re-issue. "Son Of Boogie"

 

[es336td]

Anyone? Bueller?

I just had mine recapped and it sounds sweet! After the cap job, moving it around, and my kid's friends playing through it while I was on vacation, I discovered that the settings were all out of whack... it was either muddy and woofy, or tinny and ice pick bright! I have yet to find a manual, so I pulled out he Mark I reissue manual. I set all the controls as recommended and it sounded great! True the SOB doesn't have a presence knob and the Mark I doesn't have the goofy limit knob, and I KNOW all the Mark I snobs think the SOB is a POS, but I love mine! It makes my 2X10 Tremolux clone cabinet with two 10" Weber California Customs sing!

Maybe all the SOB users can reply to this thread. I just wanted to share experiences with various settings and how you all use yours. Also, it would be nice to find a manual.

 

[es336td]

I don't have a cover or case for my SOB head. I transport it wrapped in blankets. This, I know, is a stupid way to do that, but money dictates I wait a while before I purchase the cover/case. At any rate, I had dialed it in to a sweet spot and it sounded great. The next time I took it out it sounded awful! I then noticed that the settings had been changed in transit. Since I didn't write them down, and I don't have a manual, I took a Mark I Reissue manual (yes to all the Mark snobs out this... this isn't a Mark... I get it). I ended up with these settings as suggested in that manual:

Vol 1: 4
Vol 2: 8
Master: 2.5
Treble: 7
Bass: 3
Middle: 5

Limit is on 0 and reverb is on 2.

This is a little less clean and more aggressive than I had, but sounds pretty good. The problem I had was my 2x10 cabinet sounded as boomy and bassy as a 4X12!

Anyone else got any good settings to try?

 

[Facelift]

Seems to me since you are calling for Bueller and not getting any response in your single thread that it would be kind of redundant to make an entire section devoted to it. Just a thought.

 

[es336td]

Good point... I was hoping to rally the SOB owners... I guess it's something we need to talk about in the shadows. ;-)

Thanx

 

[SonicProvocateur]

What exactly does the limit knob do? Just curious...

Can the SOB really get sweet, chimey Mark cleans?

 

[es336td]

What exactly does the limit knob do? Just curious...

Can the SOB really get sweet, chimey Mark cleans?

It was introduced as sort of a power soak or the like. It's "usable" to about 2, then it's just fuzzy and nasty sounding. If I get the money and time, I may see about having that circuit removed and add a presence, which would be more use to me. Until then, it'll just stay on 0 unless I get a complaint that it's too loud.

As for cleans.... yes, I've gotten that, but no, I didn't write down the settings. The ones I posted above give me close if I turn the guitar volume down, but if I crank it, it's more crunch than clean.

 

[edge59]

Hi, I am interested in what you are trying to do. I am currently looking at a SOB 60 watter in great condition! The guy wants $500. It has the limiter control. I have a schematic that shows a presence control and a limit (diode?) in the driver circuit. I am interested in coming up with some mods for this or mod a 2 channel Fender type amp with the Mark I or SOB circuit for lead and a Fender/Dumble clean. It sounds ironic, but I am selling my Mark IV which sounds great but I prefer the tone of the old Mark I type Boogie. I understand the SOB was redesigned around the Mark I but more guitar volume friendly. I can see from the schematics that may be true, all the reviews of the SOB are very good, most guys have owned the Mark I and II, IV etc, but prefer the SOB! I am very interested! I want to add reverb and F/X loop, as I mod and build my own amps and have always loved the Mark I tone. A friend of mine in the 80's had a mid 70's Mark I with pull boost and pull brite, that amp was a sweet amp, the best sounding Boogie I ever heard, at the time I owned a Mark 3, yuk! The Mark I was lower gain, but way sweeter and rich bluesy in tone! Later in the 90's I had a chance to try a SOB and was blown away! I don't care what the other Boogie guys say, the Mark I/SOB was an easy simple circuit and had nothing to get in the way of your tone, the later amps even the Lonestar, has so much switching components in the amp, that it must affect the overall tone. In the late 90's I owned a reissue Mark I in a Koa cab/wicker grill/EV/Reverb. It was ok, and even with Gill Ayans mods, the amp sounded better than stock, but nothing like the old 70's amp I tried. I drew up a schematic of that old amp and still have the notes, it is slightly different than the reissue, but sure sang! I am hoping once I sell my Mark IV, I can get the SOB, (Ironic eh?) I guess I am getting old and like what I grew up hearing. I also can run pedals in front if I need more gain, but I have some ideas for channel switching later on. I had the chance to take a 80's Blackface (Paul Rivera designed) Princeton that had been modded by John MCIntyre (Hope I got that right) a great amp guy in Canada, that had the "Prince of Wales" mod, but the owner was not happy with the gain, so he asked me what could be done to get that 70's Jazz/Rock Fusion overdrive sustain, he was a Roadie for the Eagles once and now is a Jazz player for the most part. I told him "Why not make a Princeton Boogie clone out of it?" He wanted both a Boogie and a Tweed amp in one... So I stole the channel switcing design from the Fender Hotrod Deluxe which has the same amount of volume controls as a Mark I. The hurdle was that the Mark I has 2 volumes and a master volume, ok The Mesa Heartbreaker and the new Mark V only have 1 gain per channel, they do this by a fixed resistor network (for the second volume control) that is the fixded sweetspot most players set the second volume control. Ok so I figured that out with an internal trim pot for the second volume so it could be fine tuned by the owner, then the front panel second volume control became the tweed channel gain, works like a Champ! If your following me still, great if not I can explain later That amp has channel switching, reverb, and negative bias/Cathode-Class-A bias switch in the back, pull brite, pull boost, and pull thick. He likes it as much as his Fuch's and a few other Boutique amps. It really shines with the neck pickup as well as the bridge. I find that as great as the Dumble ODS sounds, the neck pickup can get muddy in overdrive, where the Mark I just sings!
Talk soon,
Ed

 

[edge59]

Oh, and another thing, the Limit control could be turned into a post dual master volume which allows the driver stage to overdrive and create even more distortion that sounds great even at lower volumes, probably more useful than the Limit control, and would really make that amp versatile! All the way up its stock or not changing anything, tirned down it becomes an added gain stage where the amps stock master volume becomes another gain control pushing the PI driver circuit. Ken Fisher of Train Wreck amps came up with this mod for Marshalls etc. There are a couple Presence controls you could choose from. The old style found on the earlier Boogies, Fenders and Marshalls etc, that actuall get presence from the poweramp feedback loop, increasing the bite factor or the later Boogie design that just rolls off the highs next to the master volume. The later design does not really add bite like the old style. Guess its a personal taste thing. If the amp is brite already then go with that one, if you need more bite, the old one. Now if you want the Ken Fisher post PI master then theres another presence method, but that will be in another thread, sorry if I took up too much space here
Ed

 

[es336td]

Edge58,
Sounds like you are way more qualified to do some of this stuff than I am... I had talked with Monsta-tone on here at length about various mods and think there is a way to get it closer to the Mark I, but don't remember where the thread is... could have been mail and I can't find that either. Hey Monsta! Help a brother out!

If you two come up with a good solution, please let me know. I just recapped my 100 watt and it sounds sweeter than ever, but finances being what they are... something of that magnitude would be out of my price range right now. Good luck!

 

[stokes]

I dont think you will ever see a dedicated section on the SOB for exactly the reason you stated yourself"the redheaded stepchild" thing.In fact this is really a great sounding amp.I think the bad rep is more related to internet hype than anything else.I would pay $500 for one in a heartbeat,if I didnt already own one.I got one back in the early '80s and ended up lending it to a friend in California when I got my IIC+ in the '90's,but I do miss it.I didnt find the limit control to be detrimental at all,useless,but it doesnt hurt anything set a zero.As with any Boogie I ever worked on or played,an adjustable bias mod was all it needed and a big improvement.Get those power tubes based into the "sweet spot",and that amp sings.If my friend came back to NY and wanted to trade my C+ for it,I wouldnt miss the C+ at all.Okay,now dont start asking me to trade my C+ for your SOB's guys,I would only do it as I said because I actually own both of them.Edge,pull the trigger and grab that SOB,pay no attention to the snobs who turn their noses up to the SOB,but be sure to thank them for making the SOB so undesireable that you can get one for $500!Probably the most underrated amp ever.

 

[es336td]

I don't think you will ever see a dedicated section on the SOB for exactly the reason you stated yourself"the redheaded stepchild" thing.In fact this is really a great sounding amp.I think the bad rep is more related to internet hype than anything else.I would pay $500 for one in a heartbeat,if I didn't already own one.I got one back in the early '80s and ended up lending it to a friend in California when I got my IIC+ in the '90's,but I do miss it.I didn't find the limit control to be detrimental at all,useless,but it doesn't hurt anything set a zero.As with any Boogie I ever worked on or played,an adjustable bias mod was all it needed and a big improvement.Get those power tubes based into the "sweet spot",and that amp sings.If my friend came back to NY and wanted to trade my C+ for it,I wouldn't miss the C+ at all.Okay,now don't start asking me to trade my C+ for your SOB's guys,I would only do it as I said because I actually own both of them.Edge,pull the trigger and grab that SOB,pay no attention to the snobs who turn their noses up to the SOB,but be sure to thank them for making the SOB so undesirable that you can get one for $500!Probably the most underrated amp ever.

What he said... if it works grab it! Mine is 100 watt and I doubt if I'd trade it for anything.

 

[Monsta-Tone]

I don't remember what we talked about either, sorry.

It would probably be pretty easy to turn it into a Mark I. I haven't heard one yet, so I don't know how they sound.
I remember seeing one in a store once, but it didn't work, so I never looked twice (before I could fix amps).

My neighbor has one that he's always trying to get me to take a look at. Hardwood cab, cane grill, etc. I just haven't had the time yet.

Now you've got me a little curious, I'm gonna have to stop by his house later on next week........

 

[stokes]

"It would probably be pretty easy to turn it into a Mark I."Dont think you would have to do much at all.With the right tubes and the bias set properly,it pretty much has the MKI in it already.

 

[edge59]

Yes the SOB can be modded to Mark I spec, but after modding an old Fender Bassman head to a Mark I, then remodding the appropriate components in the preamp to SOB specs, I like them both, leaning more towards the SOB for the Guitar volume control friendly, where you turn up for solos, turn down for sweet cleans. The Driver stage (PI) and Power amp is set up like the Mark I reissue, again the preamp like the SOB, for not so buzzy bass, but can be modded for in between the two for best of both worlds, and another cool mod is cathode biasing, with sweeter and smoother transition from clean to breakup, a warmer, thicker tone that still cuts when you need it but sings very sweet. I have been looking at London power's "power scailing kits and sag kits". The power scailing kit for cathode bias at this time is $50, and the Sag kit is $30. The Power scailing kit allows you to scale down the power to bedroom level playing and keep good tone. The sag kit is also adjustable to give you more sustain/compression at any volume. Check out this video to see what a Fargen mini Plexi 12 watt sounds with power scailing down to 1/2 watt, you can talk over and still
hear awesome tones!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_euZJYNlaY

Of course its a 12 watter, but the Scailing kits will take you from full on power to 1/2 watt bedroom playability with the tone still in tact.

These mods can be installed into a Mesa amp, and the SOB lends itself to such a better limit circuit using the Power scailing/sag kits.
Edge59