I was wondering if anyone could provide me some fairly high resolution pictures the dual rectifier's pcb board. I've gotten a few pictures of the dual rectifier from a distance, but there are some details I'm having trouble seeing. If someone is willing to share, or take some photo's I'd be eternally grateful.
Need internal pictures of 2 channel Dual Rectifier
- Thread starter msi
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siggy14
Well-known member
Here is my R0005
http://good-times.webshots.com/album/554337952RNeBvU
http://good-times.webshots.com/album/554337952RNeBvU
Elpelotero
Well-known member
msi, be aware that the pics you're getting may have a different circuit board revision than what you need.
Yea, I'm totally aware of that. Thats actually one of the things I'm looking at. But first I want to make sure I know where everything goes in a general sense, then figure out what the different revisions changed on the boards. I basically need to get as many pictures as possible.
I really wish I could spend some time with one in person. I've seen a couple here in the Minneapolis area, and spent about five minuets with tremoverb, but the owners look at me as though I'm asking if I can disassemble it completely, and make sweet sweet love to the sockets, which I would never do even to my own amps. It really annoy's me as I know they are out here. So here I am, begging for help on this little personal project of mine.
I really wish I could spend some time with one in person. I've seen a couple here in the Minneapolis area, and spent about five minuets with tremoverb, but the owners look at me as though I'm asking if I can disassemble it completely, and make sweet sweet love to the sockets, which I would never do even to my own amps. It really annoy's me as I know they are out here. So here I am, begging for help on this little personal project of mine.
Which revision board do you need? That might be the best question to ask you or the best information you can give us to help you out.
I have a Rev G that I would snap pics of for you and post up here if that is what you want. I am sure that Elpelotero could supply Rev D and would be more than happy to ( I know that is one hell of an assumption but I know that most of us here would do this ). As far as an F goes, IIRC JMPMAN has an F that he has taken the time to thoroughly check out. MAybe he would oblige if you needed pics of the F.
I have a Rev G that I would snap pics of for you and post up here if that is what you want. I am sure that Elpelotero could supply Rev D and would be more than happy to ( I know that is one hell of an assumption but I know that most of us here would do this ). As far as an F goes, IIRC JMPMAN has an F that he has taken the time to thoroughly check out. MAybe he would oblige if you needed pics of the F.
Actually all three would be helpful. But mostly my desire is to get an idea of why the changes were made, and how they were implemented. I realize some of the lore about things like the transformers and the magic pixies that lived in Petaluma at that time. But I want to do this as technical and verify as much as possible. My goal isn't to devalue anyones amp, or start an argument whither the pink fairies or blue yellow fairies made the best amps.
My frustration's been building to the point where I've contemplated selling my triaxis and three channel rectifier to get a two channel, but that wouldn't satisfy my curiosity about the changes, and I'd experience a huge amout of remorse over losing the triaxis.
My frustration's been building to the point where I've contemplated selling my triaxis and three channel rectifier to get a two channel, but that wouldn't satisfy my curiosity about the changes, and I'd experience a huge amout of remorse over losing the triaxis.
Can you be more specific about what it is you want?
The pictures I posted above are of a Rev D board. I have a Rev C right now, and superficially they look identical. There are some layout differences (see my post regarding the loop), but you have to flip the board and trace the circuit to notice them.
The board revision is printed at the edge above the preamp filter caps (big blue cylinders at the upper left of my picture above).
The Rev F is different, it has a couple more LDRs, and G is different still.
Why were there changes? I assume Rev D came into being because the loop in Rev C doesn't work as-designed.
Rev F added a couple tonal tweaks to orange clean mode - a treble bypass on the master volume, lifting of the cathode bypass cap on V3A (less gain), and more negative feedback. Three LDRs were added for these functions.
Rev G goes to the parallel loop and adds the 12V supply for the switching circuits. They also changed the relays to 5V from 6V at this time (5V parts are a lot more common).
The pictures I posted above are of a Rev D board. I have a Rev C right now, and superficially they look identical. There are some layout differences (see my post regarding the loop), but you have to flip the board and trace the circuit to notice them.
The board revision is printed at the edge above the preamp filter caps (big blue cylinders at the upper left of my picture above).
The Rev F is different, it has a couple more LDRs, and G is different still.
Why were there changes? I assume Rev D came into being because the loop in Rev C doesn't work as-designed.
Rev F added a couple tonal tweaks to orange clean mode - a treble bypass on the master volume, lifting of the cathode bypass cap on V3A (less gain), and more negative feedback. Three LDRs were added for these functions.
Rev G goes to the parallel loop and adds the 12V supply for the switching circuits. They also changed the relays to 5V from 6V at this time (5V parts are a lot more common).
They changed way more than just the transformers. The whole pcb board was redesigned. Relays were used for channel switching rather than LDR's. The ldr's even when on have a little resistance, so they affect the sound. Relay's when switched on have no resistance. The Three channel has a dedicated clean channel. The second half of the first tube was not used in the original rectifier. In the three channel it's part of the clean channel. The three channel has three modes for each lead channel. The clean channel on the three is very similar to the the clean channels in the mark series. The three channel has the solo switch and function. Looking at the schematics they would be very similar for the lead channels. But do not be fooled. They are different amps. And thus sound different.
Clean channels are not that importent to me, but the Orange and Red channels are....so
-PCP board
-Relays
-Output transformers (you meant they changed those too, right?).
I would guess the output transformator would cause the biggest change in sound..., or di'd they change the preamp "design" too?
I've never AB'd a 2ch and 3ch. I woulden't mind a suble difference, but are the 3ch's "useless" or are we talking suble differences compared to a 2ch?
Could aging of components maybe cause a factor too (2ch are older)?
-PCP board
-Relays
-Output transformers (you meant they changed those too, right?).
I would guess the output transformator would cause the biggest change in sound..., or di'd they change the preamp "design" too?
I've never AB'd a 2ch and 3ch. I woulden't mind a suble difference, but are the 3ch's "useless" or are we talking suble differences compared to a 2ch?
Could aging of components maybe cause a factor too (2ch are older)?
They changed the preamp in a big way. But they also tried to maintain the two channels signal path. The cathodes of the lead channels have a 100ohm resistor after a capacitor. The reason for that I believe is because even when activated, the ldr's of the two channel still have a resistance of 100-200ohms. No other hi-gain amp has a resistor in that postion. The two channel has it there to assist in switching from hi-gain to clean. The three channel has no reason for it to be there other than to match the ldr's open resistance in the two channel amp.
I'm not a two channel purest. They have some things that I like about them, and some things I don't like. I have a three channel rectifier and a triaxis. Those two give me all that I need right now. I know someone who swears by his crate blue voodoo. I think it sounds like crap. Some people think the three channel rectifiers are junk, some don't. The way I look at it is if the three channel rectifiers were useless, they wouldn't be selling them. They'd go back to something closer to the two channel amps. The three channel amps are doing it for the majority of the people out there. They are more versatile, have the solo function, and a better clean.
Now there is one way the three channel is devinitivly better than the two channel. Quality control. Ninty percent of the three channels parts are all on the pcb. The two channel has parts on tube sockets, parts on turrets, wires between the output tubes, it's a mess. When assembling the amp the three channel has way fewer spots that a mistake can be made. In mesa/boogies case, this is a big bonus.
Bottom like is which one do you prefer, the ps3, the 360, or the wii. Because the same type of person who argues all day long about which one is better, would probably argue about which of those two amps is better. And it all comes down to opinion.
I'm not a two channel purest. They have some things that I like about them, and some things I don't like. I have a three channel rectifier and a triaxis. Those two give me all that I need right now. I know someone who swears by his crate blue voodoo. I think it sounds like crap. Some people think the three channel rectifiers are junk, some don't. The way I look at it is if the three channel rectifiers were useless, they wouldn't be selling them. They'd go back to something closer to the two channel amps. The three channel amps are doing it for the majority of the people out there. They are more versatile, have the solo function, and a better clean.
Now there is one way the three channel is devinitivly better than the two channel. Quality control. Ninty percent of the three channels parts are all on the pcb. The two channel has parts on tube sockets, parts on turrets, wires between the output tubes, it's a mess. When assembling the amp the three channel has way fewer spots that a mistake can be made. In mesa/boogies case, this is a big bonus.
Bottom like is which one do you prefer, the ps3, the 360, or the wii. Because the same type of person who argues all day long about which one is better, would probably argue about which of those two amps is better. And it all comes down to opinion.
Yeah, I know lotz of people on gearslutz are ofthen talking about old gear sounding warmer cuz the signal has to travel through lots of components coloring the sound oposed to newer gear with is less complex designed.
I have the 360 and Wii, btw....
Also reability is a big bonus for me as i'll be using my future mesa purchase in the studio mainly.
Could it be that some thinks the 2ch sounds "warmer" cuz it has more "junk" inside and 3ch has a cleaner design and therefore "less mojo"?
Kind of the old "UREI 1176 sounds better then the UA re-issues due to newer more transparent technolody in the re-issues" arguement....
I have the 360 and Wii, btw....
Also reability is a big bonus for me as i'll be using my future mesa purchase in the studio mainly.
Could it be that some thinks the 2ch sounds "warmer" cuz it has more "junk" inside and 3ch has a cleaner design and therefore "less mojo"?
Kind of the old "UREI 1176 sounds better then the UA re-issues due to newer more transparent technolody in the re-issues" arguement....
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