"Natural Breakup"

[gitapik]

I keep hearing about how you have to have the Mark Series amps cranked to get that "natural breakup". Not so in my case and I'm wondering if any of you have the same:

My IIB had the original EVM12L in there for decades. During that time I just loved the cleans and used different pedals or the Lead channel for distortion.

Now I'm into overdrive...not just distortion. I swapped my EVM for a Jensen C12k. I like it. A LOT. One of the settings I use has the treble pot pulled and the Vol 1 at 10. I've found that with this setting I get that "Natural Breakup" (or overdrive) at any volume. Loud or soft. It rocks!

Anyone else using that or is it about the new speaker?

 

[SonicProvocateur]

Jensens, to me, tend to break up on the top end pretty smoothly, and do so more and more as they are both more worn in (more flub in the lows) and with more volume applied (which our Boogies obviously love to do). I found that certain Eminence speakers are great for giving our amps that "Vox that is tearing up tubes and speakers" sound and also the Marshall overdrive sound as it drives the speakers to breakup; of course it hurts the speakers over time with so much excursion, but MAN it sounds good if you find the right spot without blowing your rig.

Sidenote: I found the one speaker that gives that breakup sound without blowing anything up is the Celestion G12H-80. They are like the Lead 80 but with extended highs, meaty mids, 80 watts of power handling and superb breakup character. Try one out!

 

[MrMarkIII]

Some Eminence speakers have an early breakup design.
I've been using the Texas Heat in my Mark III. It tames some of the glassy highs and has a bit more crunch at low volumes. But still 150 watts, and 10 lbs. less than the EVM.
But EVMs still rule.

 

[gitapik]

Sidenote: I found the one speaker that gives that breakup sound without blowing anything up is the Celestion G12H-80. They are like the Lead 80 but with extended highs, meaty mids, 80 watts of power handling and superb breakup character. Try one out!

Thanks. I'll check it out.

The natural breakup is a new one for me. I've always had clean amps with either a separate distortion channel or used pedals for dirt.

At this point, I can still get the very clean sound by not pulling the treble pot and keeping master volume at 7 or below. Are you saying that's going to eventually change as I break in the speaker? I wouldn't like that at all. The main reason I've held onto my IIB this long has been for the clean tones.

 

[SonicProvocateur]

How the speaker breaks up shouldn't change drastically, but the speaker will loosen up just a bit. It will only change drastically if you beat on it relentlessly at hard volumes at high gain (I did this to a pair of eminences, now found a place with my Marshall instead). New speakers are always going to be really tight for the first 20-30 hours, once it hits a hundred hours or so it should loosen up nicely. If you put a thousand hours on it, then it might get flubby.

The way I test for my clean breakup is try and match the tone of Link Wray's "Rumble". Some of it will be pickup power and some of it will be speaker color, but hitting that sweetspot is a good indicator of how the speaker performs (to me), since the Marks are so clean.

 

[JOEY B.]

But EVMs still rule.

I concur 1000%. The Mark series through EVM's brings forth the truth. If you don't like it, it's your own damn fault. :shock:

 

[gitapik]

But EVMs still rule.

I concur 1000%. The Mark series through EVM's brings forth the truth. If you don't like it, it's your own damn fault. :shock:

Dude...I've had this amp with the original EVM since 1980. I know all too well how great it sounds with the 12L in there. I put off trying anything else for years.

I might go back to it...but not now. I'm very into the sounds I'm getting with this Jensen.

 

[MrMarkIII]

I put a C12K and an EVM12L in two Thieles side-by-side and was hard pressed to tell the difference. The EV is 0.9 dB more efficient but the Jensen sounded brighter, maybe because it wasn't as broken-in as the 20 year-old EV.
The EV had slightly less scoop in the lower mids.
Or, the Jensen was more scooped. Take your pick.

 

[gitapik]

I put a C12K and an EVM12L in two Thieles side-by-side and was hard pressed to tell the difference. The EV is 0.9 dB more efficient but the Jensen sounded brighter, maybe because it wasn't as broken-in as the 20 year-old EV.
The EV had slightly less scoop in the lower mids.
Or, the Jensen was more scooped. Take your pick.

Yeah...I've still got an EVM12L in my Thiele. It matches up really well with the Jensen in the combo. Real well. The biggest difference is that I can now get that natural breakup at lower volumes, because of the Jensen. What's not to like? If I don't want that, I push in the treble knob. No problem.

 

[JOEY B.]

Yeah...I've still got an EVM12L in my Thiele. It matches up really well with the Jensen in the combo. Real well. The biggest difference is that I can now get that natural breakup at lower volumes, because of the Jensen. What's not to like? If I don't want that, I push in the treble knob. No problem.

Dude.... You never said that you had an EVM thiele under that combo. :wink: The point that I was trying to make, is that some people swap speakers to find their sound. I prefer to use a very honest sounding speaker, and adjust everything else in the guitar or signal chain. I guess it does not matter how you get there, as long as you arrive. 8)

 

[gitapik]

Yeah...I've still got an EVM12L in my Thiele. It matches up really well with the Jensen in the combo. Real well. The biggest difference is that I can now get that natural breakup at lower volumes, because of the Jensen. What's not to like? If I don't want that, I push in the treble knob. No problem.

Dude.... You never said that you had an EVM thiele under that combo. :wink: The point that I was trying to make, is that some people swap speakers to find their sound. I prefer to use a very honest sounding speaker, and adjust everything else in the guitar or signal chain. I guess it does not matter how you get there, as long as you arrive. 8)

I completely understand that. The EVM is a very unforgiving speaker. What you put into it is what you get and that's what I've loved about it for years. I get that in a big way. It's why I held off on a change for so long.

What brought me to the Jensen was the weight. I'm still in great shape and I ain't crawlin'...but that amp just gets heavier and heavier as I get older. The Jensen shaved 10 very welcome pounds off of the combo. Makes a difference.

I might not have done it except for this new tech I started to go to. Besides the fact that the amp needed new caps/tubes/and a cleanup, I had the idea of a lighter speaker in mind when I first went to see him. He's very into Boogies and told me about the C12k...that it's very similar to the EVM but will give me an earlier breakup with the pot pulled, etc. He knows his stuff. Used to work tech for Steve Morse when he was with The Dixie Dregs/Dregs among others. I'm glad I got tipped about him. Everything he said about the speaker was dead on. Excellent clean tones and it just sings when you kick in the dirt.

And, yeah: the EVM stays in the Theile. That's nowhere near as heavy and the sound works very, very well with the Jensen. B-I-G sound. But the amp sounds great on it's own, too, with the C12k.

 

[mark2boogie]

Hello,

The EVM is a very unforgiving speaker. What you put into it is what you get

I was in the opposite position : all my Fenders have CTS or Eminence speakers, vintage or well-played, giving them their peculiar tone and breakup. And I discovered the "magic" of the EVM12L with my Boogie : really what you put into it is what you get...

What brought me to the Jensen was the weight. I'm still in great shape and I ain't crawlin'...but that amp just gets heavier and heavier as I get older

Here's the drawback, you point it : the EVM12L transforms your amp in an anvil... 8.9kg EVM12L vs. 3.5kg Eminence ME12-100 (Legend 1218) or 4.3kg Jensen C12K.

I found a compromise with an ALTEC 417-8H II at 6.9kg, which also give that "Santana" breakup... And I also found younger and kind musician people to help me move my amp !

A+!

 

[gitapik]

And I also found younger and kind musician people to help me move my amp !

A+!

Sounds good to me.

 

[JOEY B.]

What brought me to the Jensen was the weight. I'm still in great shape and I ain't crawlin'...but that amp just gets heavier and heavier as I get older. The Jensen shaved 10 very welcome pounds off of the combo. Makes a difference.

I made the decision to ditch my Imbuya combo shell years ago. I moved to a head shell and extension cab(s). It is much easier to carry two 40 pound buckets than one that weighs 75 lbs. I also don't mind making an extra trip to the car to haul gear. I would rather my legs get a workout than my spine. 8)

 

[gitapik]

What brought me to the Jensen was the weight. I'm still in great shape and I ain't crawlin'...but that amp just gets heavier and heavier as I get older. The Jensen shaved 10 very welcome pounds off of the combo. Makes a difference.

I made the decision to ditch my Imbuya combo shell years ago. I moved to a head shell and extension cab(s). It is much easier to carry two 40 pound buckets than one that weighs 75 lbs. I also don't mind making an extra trip to the car to haul gear. I would rather my legs get a workout than my spine. 8)

75lbs...? Was that the hardwood combo with the cane grill? Mine's the cream tolex and it weighed in at 65lbs until I put in the Jensen. 55lbs is more manageable.

I've actually considered converting my combo to a head. Besides the weight distribution that you mention (which is a good point), I also like the idea of being able to check out different speaker setups. I think I'd miss the reverb tank, though.

 

[mark2boogie]

Yes, guys !

With an hardwood cab it's even more awful...

My MKIIA in its bubinga EVM12L Black Shadow cab is 35kg (circa 70lbs), and put in its (light) flycase, it reaches 43kg (circa 86lbs). The same put in its Tolex 417-8H cab decreases to 28kg (circa 56lbs), and in flycase 36kg (circa 72lbs). The FSW (eq/lead/boost) and its cables are included.

Like you, I am also akeen to test the head+cab configuration, when my MKIIB 60/100 Rev Eq head will be here.

But if you are not alone for the handling of your amp, things are different : the flycase alternative offer you to carry the amp with 2 people, dividing roughly the mass by 2... The breakup of your speaker and your backbone are safely preserved :mrgreen: ... Even better if the handling job is kindly done for you :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Another good speaker to test would be the JBL K-120, and it is remains a reasonably light unit (6.4kg / 13lbs). Any of you tried a K-120 ?

A+!

 

[JOEY B.]

I think I'd miss the reverb tank, though.

My head has a reverb tank in it.

As to the 75 lbs, yes, hardwood, wicker cane, 105 Power transformer, EVM, reverb tank, footswitches stored in the combo, Studio Slips padded clamshell cover. 8)

 

[gitapik]

I think I'd miss the reverb tank, though.

My head has a reverb tank in it.

As to the 75 lbs, yes, hardwood, wicker cane, 105 Power transformer, EVM, reverb tank, footswitches stored in the combo, Studio Slips padded clamshell cover. 8)

So if I chose to convert my combo to a head, I could put the reverb tank in there?

 

[JOEY B.]

I think I'd miss the reverb tank, though.

My head has a reverb tank in it.

As to the 75 lbs, yes, hardwood, wicker cane, 105 Power transformer, EVM, reverb tank, footswitches stored in the combo, Studio Slips padded clamshell cover. 8)

So if I chose to convert my combo to a head, I could put the reverb tank in there?

Yes.

 

[gitapik]

Hmmm...

Thanks