NAD.... the triple Crown has arrived

[Dreamtheaterrules]

The M types represent Brit tone to me. Many people lately have loved the Friedman 2x12 and it mixes a greenback with a V30. A v30 can overpower a greenback if you're not careful. Scumback has his V30s and Greenback types within 2dB of each other so that they mix well in the same cab. I've had good luck with mixing an Emi Private Jack (greenback type) and Governor (V30 type).

But many of your "high gain Marshall" type amps use all greenbacks or higher powered greenback types, like the EVH cab for the 5150. So I've always wondered how a RA100, Stiletto or now TC50 would sound with that type cab. I'm sure it would push it a little close to "M-land."

 

[elvis]

The first time I demo'd the TC50 the head was hooked up through a Marshall reissue 4x12, I think the 1960AHW. It sounded great. I switched to a recto vertical 2x12 because that's what I generally play through and it was tough on the ears by comparison. The Marshall can was more balanced and smooth, the recto was more high-mid focused and crunchy.

I have no doubt that the TC had been dialed in for the 4x12, but it may also be that the G12H30 pairs well with it. A pair of them would come in at just enough power handling.

 

[bandit2013]

Last night I did not play through any amp. Instead, I decided to read through the TC-50 manual. Yeah, day late and a dollar short. After reading the booklet, I decided to install a new Mesa 12AX7 to replace the SPAX7 I installed into V3 thinking it would kill the unexpected rebound of the Mark V story. Well no need to worry as the manual covers this topic so this may be expected depending what you dialed in for that particular channel.

I did try taking the treble out as suggested in the manual and bumped up the midrange. Sounds great. I sort of like the treble where I had. Now which one is my favorite channel..... tough to decide as all three have great tones to offer. Definitely a worthy amp to consider in light of my first impression.

 

[bandit2013]

I did manage to make a recording of both the RA and the TC-50. I used the RA100 combo for two reasons, what the open back V30 cab sounds like, changed speakers back to the G12H75 Cream backs, TC-50 with Cream back and then Vert 212 with V30. For some reason I do not notice the difference between the V30 and the Cream backs. It must be the preamp in the mixer as I did not record direct into the Tascam DP-32SD recorder. Mixer I used was a Soundcraft Sig 22 MTK. I also used a pair of drum mics (Audix D2) on the cab and an NT1-A as reference about 6ft from the amp. My guitar playing skills may not be up to par as most of you but at least you get a home recoding version that may be good or bad, I will leave it up to you.

https://soundcloud.com/user-353100000/rav30-g12h75cb-tc50wav

 

[bandit2013]

What happed to my JP-2C? On that regard I have not seen the Roadster in quite a while now (I see it every day I leave for work as I have to pass though the studio or living room to leave thought the side entrance but it has its cover on it now). Both amps sitting idle with covers on them. Tubes are cold and the bottom of the speaker cones are filling up with fine dust particles. I think the TC-50 has taken over......

Love the 6V6 tubes but used them for a short period and went back to the EL34. This amp sounds better every day I use it. I still have difficulty trying to place the general tone. CH3 may tread on some Recto territory and CH2 may step into Mark tones. Perhaps it is an illusion. This amp is amazing in all regards. I recently picked up a used Kiesel guitar with the Ghost Floyd Rose bridge (licensed by GraphTech in agreement with Floyd Rose) it has the acoustic piezo saddles under each string. I had considered it when I ordered my Last Carvin but opted not to get it. Now that I have that feature I am even more impressed with the TC-50. Yesterday I pulled the Fishman Aura preamp out of storage (I use it with my Mexican Martin 12 String as it sound almost as good as a condenser mic). Holly crap, and electric guitar with a locking Floyd Rose sounding like any acoustic guitar of my choice was a treat to behold. Better served up in clean mode without drive. Also without the fishman, the piezo blended with the passive magnetic pickups sounds interesting too even with distortion. Of course I can switch to all passive and disable the piezo. I have not compared this to the Mark V but doubt I would love it as much as the Mark V channel 1 seems to have a low frequency hum with the stock tubes. Could be a diode issue on the 12 Volt supply as I think that is tube heater related. Will also have to try both the JP-2C and Roadster with the new guitar and its features. However the TC-50 is so much fun to play though I feel I do not need anything else.

 

[bandit2013]

Since I have had the amp for about a month, it seems to be the one I pick first to play though. Yeah, I have bonded with it and love it. One surprise after the next as it seems to have become a top favorite, even more so than the RA100. Hate to say it but the JP-2C has been covered for a while now. I would play it more if it was sitting on a cabinet. Methinks I need another Vert 212 cab, but I keep telling that other voice in my head to shut up. But to persuade me into realizing that two of the vert 212 cabs would make a killer 412 but it would be a 4 ohm load. I did run the vertical and horizontal though the amp and was blown away more than I was with the OS Recto 412 cab by itself. A second Vertical 212 would be worth buying vs getting a 1x12 wide body cab. I may just do that....

For a really cool thing, I ran the TC-50 in parallel to the Roadster. Now that was awesome. Have not tried the JP or Mark V in parallel yet. Had to fire up the Roadster as it was also sitting cold in the studio. My memory of the tone did not serve me well as it sounds nothing like the TC-50. However when blended together was just incredible and I could not stop playing.

 

[Deadpool_25]

Always interesting and fun reading your thoughts. I have a vertical 2x12 recto and a couple of horizontal 2x12 rectos. I've been considering putting a cream back in the vertical to try a mix with the V30.

I put 6L6s in the TC-50 just to try it out but I need to put the EL-34s back in to see how the differences feel. I know they're both awesome though.

I think the TC-50 really does have its own sound. It doesn't sound quite like anything else I can think of. It just seems to have its own great sound.

 

[bandit2013]

Blending a Creamback with the V30.. the V30 will win. I have tried that with my old OS 412 Recto when I got the Creambacks to stuff into it. I eventually went back to the EV speaker in that cabinet and moved the Crembacks into the traditional sized Egnator cab just to see if the cabinet size would make a difference. I have notices that the Creambacks will not be as loud as the V30 and may be due to the difference in frequency response. When mixing in the same cabinet all you will hear is the V30 even though the Creamback is pushing air too. However if they are loaded into different cabinets it sounds better. The same would apply to the EV as I had tried a mix of those with V30. V30 dominated that arrangement too as the sensitivity of the V30 is high relative to the other speakers. The larger voice coil of the EV sounded like there was a response time differential to the V30 which sounded interesting...

What I thing would sound great but too expensive for me to want to try it...... Celesiton Crème 90W alnico either blended with V30 or replace both in one of my 212 cabs with the 90W crème..... ouch. I can buy another vert 212 for that which I may just do so as I like to play the JP just as much as the TC-50 but swapping heads on one cab is okay but would rather have the ability to run the two amps in stereo. I prefer the v212 over the H212 but had to get the H to try it with my other amps (still and awesome cabinet).

To be honest, I ran both the V212 and the H212 in parallel and that was huge and powerful and made the OS Recto 412 sound weak. I did this with the JP-2C but have not tried it with the TC-50. I am actually surprised how well the TC-50 sounded with the EV speaker. It may not have been spectacular like when driven by a Rectifier or Mark amp but it did not drown out with low end drone like the RA100 tended to do. V30 seems to be king with the RA. The TC-50 does well with other speakers like the cream back especially if the cab is open back like the RA100 combo. for some time ever since I got my first OS Recto cab I just did not like the V30 as much (My Mark III had the EVM12 Black Shadow which must have tainted my brain). It was not until I got my 2nd OS Recto cab to match the RA100 head that I really bonded with the V30. The V212 made me like V30 even more. Perfect cabinet for the V30. Not sure how it would sound with other speakers in it.

 

[bandit2013]

Always interesting and fun reading your thoughts. I have a vertical 2x12 recto and a couple of horizontal 2x12 rectos. I've been considering putting a cream back in the vertical to try a mix with the V30.

I put 6L6s in the TC-50 just to try it out but I need to put the EL-34s back in to see how the differences feel. I know they're both awesome though.

I think the TC-50 really does have its own sound. It doesn't sound quite like anything else I can think of. It just seems to have its own great sound.

I have been playing mine ever since I got it. Yes it has its own thing going on but also is quite similar to the RA100. The more use I get on the EL34 the better the amp sounds. reduction in the treble control doe help too on Hi/Lo. The manual helped to describe the relation on the tone controls a bit better but I still set my settings with my eyes first and not my ears as is the way it should be done.

If you want to get the 6L6 Markish tone from the amp, get a pair of 6V6. That just blew me away but not as loud as it is a half power reduction in output.

If you had more than one amp with their own speaker cab, running the TC-50 in stereo or parallel can be a thrill. I blended the Roadster and the TC-50 and was impressed with the mix. Will have to try it with the JP or Mark amp. It does sound extremely awesome with the RA though.

 

[Deadpool_25]

I was considering the Creamback 65 simply because that's what Peavey put in the Invective cabinet. That's a pine box and surely has different dimensions but interesting. I may give it a shot for the heck of it.

I actually was wanting more of a recto-ish tone in channel 3. Also I was kind of wanting a warm Fenderish or Lonestarish clean in channel 1. I think the 6L6s and putting Ch 1 in drive mode got me in that territory.

With the Precision Drive in front of Ch 2, and an MXR 6-band EQ in the loop the TC-50, which I already loved, has blossomed. Well, mostly. I did have to crank the treble back a lot because the PD seems to increase it significantly. That's fine because I can dial it back at the amp, the PD, and/or the EQ.

I am using the TC through a vertical 2x12 but also have a pair of horizontal 2x12s. I can run the 5:25 through one of those and that's pretty awesome in stereo. I'm not using it that way right now though. Just using the TC in mono. I've been GASing for a 5150/6505 for a while now but the clean channel isn't really what I wanted. I could run multiple amps but would rather run a single versatile amp if possible. The problem is I want that amp to be capable of everything from jazz to pop to blues to rock to metal. The TC-50 can absolutely cover all that ground and do it well.

With that said I'm still GASing for those 5150 high gain tones. There's just something about them. So the odds are pretty good I'll be grabbing an Invective at some point. If the clean channel is as good as is advertised, and if it takes pedals as well as advertised, it could be just what the doctor ordered. And I just imagine running that in stereo with the TC-50. :twisted:

 

[Deadpool_25]

And after thinking about it for 2 minutes I just preordered the Invective. F-it! Lol

 

[bandit2013]

And after thinking about it for 2 minutes I just preordered the Invective. F-it! Lol

After your last post, I had to find out for myself what the Invective was. Are you going to get the matching cab with it too?

 

[bandit2013]

And after thinking about it for 2 minutes I just preordered the Invective. F-it! Lol

After your last post, I had to find out for myself what the Invective was. Are you going to get the matching cab with it too Double post..... sorry this happened automatically.

 

[Deadpool_25]

And after thinking about it for 2 minutes I just preordered the Invective. F-it! Lol

After your last post, I had to find out for myself what the Invective was. Are you going to get the matching cab with it too?

Nah, I'll just use one (or two?) of my Mesa cabs. I have 2 horizontal recto cabs and one vertical. I am considering swapping a V30 out of one and putting a Creamback in there. At least that way I have the speaker combo of the matching Peavey cab.

 

[bandit2013]

It appears that the Invective cab is using two 8 ohm speakers and running them in series for a mono 16 ohm load. Perhaps that would sound better than running both V30 and G12H-75 in parallel.

I have both 8 ohm V30 and G12H75 CB. ran them in series /parallel and parallel/ series in the 412 cab. That did not overwhelm me as the tone of the V30 was the dominant speaker. Tried this with the V30 on one side and the G12H75 on the other just to experiment with arrangement, even did the x pattern. Perhaps in a 212 arrangement would work better if the tone of the cab has good bottom end to it (did the same with a V30 mixed with G12H75 in the RA100 combo, preferred both speakers the same. Personal preference I guess. Many who are using the CB G12H75 or even the G12H65 have had great results mixed with the V30. That just did not work out for me.

The pine cabinet will also contribute to the tonal character vs the Baltic Birch plywood since the softer would will resonate more than the layers of plies.

 

[Deadpool_25]

Yeah I have heard good things about the V30/CB combo. I think usually I hear good things about it in terms of 2x12s but I'll have to look closer. I suspect the Invective will sound great though an all V30 Mesa cab too. Im just curious about the CB. Im not sure I want to spring for the Invective cab right away but I just might. Maybe I'll sell off one Mesa horizontal cab. It's more a matter of not wanting too many cabs laying around the house.

 

[bandit2013]

When mounted in a 212 cab, the V30 is a power house. I have no desire to remove one in either of my 212 cabs at the moment.. V30 in the 412 is not as bold as found in the 212 either vert or horizontal. Could be related to the cavity size of the cabinet but sounds punchy enough. I did mount a quad of the CB G12H75 in my older OS recto. different response in the mid range bottom end was not as disruptive and the top end has a hint of roll off. However the real differences between the V30 and the CB G12H75 seems to be the lower volume characteristic. V30 has a fizzy tone (especially in an open back cab like the RA100 Combo) and the CG G12H75 does not. I have a pair in my RA100, took them out and installed the originals and thought why change back... deleted a recording I have on sound cloud and had to install them again to recreate it. Actually the CB G12H75 sounded way better when I put them back in than when they did when I removed them. Guess I had to have the V30 installed to realize the difference in the application.

Here is a poor example of the difference between V30 and the CB G12H75. First two sections were recoded using the RA100 combo with stock tubes. Third block of noodling was the TC-50 pushing the RA100 combo speakers and the fourth was the Vert 212 cab with V30 (I should have re-adjusted the amp settings due to the difference of the tone of the cab vs the combo but I did not so it got a bit muddy due to my bass setting on the TC-50). If you have not seen this one yet, here it is. Just noodling and trying to keep things similar so one could jump around on the time line to compare. I commented the timeline to indicate what channel I was in (do not remember if I indicated bridge or neck pickups though). Next recording I do I will confirm my guitar is in tune.

https://soundcloud.com/user-353100000/rav30-g12h75cb-tc50wav

 

[Deadpool_25]

Right on man. Cool noodling. The TC-50 is so good. If I hadn't been jonesing for that Peavey high gain tone I wouldn't bother with the Invective. But I have so I am. Haha. The Invective cab is also a bit bigger than the Recto. So that will have an effect as well. Talking about it, I'm starting to consider getting the Invective cab just to see how it is. Guess I'll put a horizontal Recto up for sale.

 

[bandit2013]

It is all good... I for some reason cannot get away from Mesa...... I blame it all on the Mark III combo. I had that amp for 23 years and it looked and performed as well as it did when new (almost since I could not get the RCA 6CA7 and the Sylvania 6L6GC which is what it shipped with from Mesa back in 1989). That amp was gigged and served me well over the years. Then I got the Mark IV combo in 2000. 12 years later came the Mark V, RA100, Roadster, RA100 combo, JP-2C and finally the TC-50. My house looks almost like a Mesa store but I do not have the other models to go with it.

Amps I had considered: Marshall JVM410, PRS Archon. Never really looked at Peavey as most I have seen locally were the lower end units. The Invective sounds interesting. When you get it, do tell how it fits your needs and how it compares to what you have now....

 

[Deadpool_25]

It is all good... I for some reason cannot get away from Mesa...... I blame it all on the Mark III combo. I had that amp for 23 years and it looked and performed as well as it did when new (almost since I could not get the RCA 6CA7 and the Sylvania 6L6GC which is what it shipped with from Mesa back in 1989). That amp was gigged and served me well over the years. Then I got the Mark IV combo in 2000. 12 years later came the Mark V, RA100, Roadster, RA100 combo, JP-2C and finally the TC-50. My house looks almost like a Mesa store but I do not have the other models to go with it.

Amps I had considered: Marshall JVM410, PRS Archon. Never really looked at Peavey as most I have seen locally were the lower end units. The Invective sounds interesting. When you get it, do tell how it fits your needs and how it compares to what you have now....

Mesas are amps that we grow up thinking, maybe one day I can own one of those. They're just awesome. They always seem top shelf and classy, even if they're ripping your face off in a metal band. You don't really see the super cheap, made-for-casual-player Mesas. Other major brands almost always have those items in their lineups. Marshall MG or Code, Fender Mustang, Line 6, Peavey Vypyr, even Vox. But Mesa never seems to go that route. Just serious gear for serious musicians (and wannabes like me). Love me some Mesa.

I had a JVM 410. Sold it. Was not that impressed with it. The Archon looks great. Metal is just one of the many types of music I listen to and the 5150 is a benchmark for metal tone. I've always dug their very unique tone. I wish I knew why they sound so different than other amps.

I live somewhat of a spartan life, trying not to have too much clutter and "stuff" around the house. I also like to keep things as simple as I can. Ideally I'd have one really sweet tube amp that is excellent at any genre's tones. Jazz, pop, rock, blues, metal, etc. The TC-50 seems to fit the bill. The 6L6s get me into Recto territory; that's another benchmark for metal imo. Still, that something about the 5150 tone...I neeeeeed it. Lol

I'll definitely compare them when I eventually get the Invective in. Right now, they say they're expecting mid August arrival. Misha said the delays on in production so those things can draw out a bit.