NAD: Roadster Head

[bandit2013]

I did the same thing, I have a set of Mesa EL34's and also borrowed the quad of SED=C= EL34 from the RA100. There did not seem to be much of a dramatic difference from the Mesa 6L6GC in complex harmonics with higher gain but there was a difference on the clean channels. Not bad though. I actually prefer the stock tubes in this amp. However, the TAD6L6GC-STR did sound really good (I think better than the SED =C= 6L6GC). I am still exploring this amp and its capabilities and various combination of gain, presence and what tone settings to use. I am definitely in love with the reverb on this amp. So far it has the best sounding reverb I have yet to hear on a Mesa (considering the Mark V, Mark IV and the RA100 have the exact same reverb tank).

 

[Eevil]

I just put a set of Mesa EL34's in my Roadster this weekend. Man, it really tightened the amp up quite a bit.

Well.. I dropped in a set of JJ EL34s and that really made some nice change in overall tonality. The overly emphasized low end in ch3 & 4 is gone now and the amp feels more fun to play and also has more upper harmonics (read: more chime and presence). The old tube set was heavily used already and not even a matched quartet so that, I think was the problem

Now this beast purrs like a diesel sub and I also like what these EL34s have done to the clean channel & Brit channel I used to run the CH3 and CH4 bass knobs in 0 in rehearsals and the palm-muting "thump"-breath was drowning everything else. Well... That's why we want to have these "proper" amps :mrgreen: ...

 

[ryjan]

EL34's in my Roadster almost give it a Mark feel with the low end so much tighter. Makes it easier to play fast riffs for sure.

 

[Shemham]

I found similar results with my Reborn Dual Rectifier.

IMO EL34s are way better if you want to use the power section more as a part of your lead tone shaping. They start to saturate earlier and when they do, it's much more musical than with 6L6GCs. They kill some unnecessary low-end, smooth up the buzzy characteristics in the high-end and accent the mids. 6L6GCs simply start to add mud after certain point if you turn the volume up.

 

[bandit2013]

I do not have the issue with mud. The low end remains tight probably since I am driving EVM12L's in my cabinet. I can run the bass as high as I want too. I have tried to flub it out but have not been able to do so. There are limits though, also if I use the neck pup with treble dialed out it will not sounds so good. Still going through trial and error to find my sound. I am still impressed with what I have discovered thus far.

I did return to the SED =C= 6L6GC's and the Tung Sol in V1 and V2 as well as the Sovtek LPS in V6. All is good with that. I do like the Mesa 6L6GC STR440 but they seem to have a different tone. However they are prone in producing drone (term borrowed from automotive exhaust if that makes any sense) perhaps in other words mud. The SED =C= as well as the TAD 6L6GC STR seem to add brightness that the amp is lacking. Tung Sol also contribute. I have tried the Mesa tube in V6, that seems to add to the drone but the Sovtek LPS livens things up (at least the LPS is known to be matched, not sure on the Mesa tube). Now I can use the Modern Voice in both CH3 and CH4 and get a wide range of gain structure (awesome for Classic Rock to Heavy Metal depending on gain, presence and tone settings and rectifier tracking). I may experiment with other tubes in V2 just to get an idea how responsive it will be.

With my Mark V, using the Sovtek LPS in V7 seemed to be too much top end. The Mesa 12AX7A works the best to cut the ice pick out along with KT77. I guess the reason why I did not care much for the EL34 was difference in tone and gain structure. The tweed voice as well as the britt voice sounds better with SED =C=6L6GC than with the Mesa tubes or the different sets of EL34 I currently have (EH EL34, Mesa EL34 [probably sovtek or EH?], Gold Lion KT77, and SED =C= EL34 [reserved for the RA100].) A friend of mine (and co-worker who lives in Michigan) visits for a week once a month who owns an original Black Face 1965 Fender Twin Reverb, he actually thought the Tweed sounded almost identical to the 65 Fender (he usually travels with his guitar). The day after I changed the tubes back to the Mesa originals, that only lasted a few days before wanting to go back to the SED =C=. I am still running 100W on all channels. I will have to try the 50W and see how that differs in level of saturation. I am amazed how versatile the Roadster is. It makes the Mark V seem limited in its capabilities. I will have to admit it, now I am trying to set up my tone to sound like the artists (led Zep, Deep Purple, ACDC, Scorpions (early to current), Pink Floyd, BOC, Kansas, and some 80's stuff like White Snake and Dokken, etc... ) Deep Purple is a bit hairy but I can get close (think the Mark V with the KT77 is more exact for DP).

 

[LesPaul70]

I am amazed how versatile the Roadster is. It makes the Mark V seem limited in its capabilities.

Well, yeah, the V takes a bit more tweaking before you start hitting the really golden tones, but once you get there...with the GEQ and stuff, I wouldn't necessarily say it is more limited. It's more like apples and oranges, IMO. The design philosophies (Roadster vs V) differ a lot.

Deep Purple is a bit hairy but I can get close (think the Mark V with the KT77 is more exact for DP).

Which Purple? Early Purple is practically clean, Perfect Strangers reunion is close to the hard rock/metal distortion of the era, and the amount of gain Steve Morse likes to use would put many extreme metal bands to shame...

 

[bandit2013]

I would have to say Perfect Strangers album (title song PS is one of DP favorites).

The Mark V is capable as well as versatile, but I feel the Roadster has a better adjustment on the gain for CH3 and CH4. I normally have to keep the gain dialed down on the V in CH3, however, CH2 crunch it is dialed up almost all the way. CH3 of the Mark V has three voices of great tones, CH2 only sounds good in crunch or Mark I, Edge is a bit too brittle for my tastes. I have had more enjoyment exploring the Roadster and its characteristics. Definitely would agree, different amps and did not expect them to be the same anyway.

 

[bandit2013]

After getting used to the character of the Mesa tubes, I began to feel a need for some change. The TAD6L6GC-STR were great in this amp but now are in use in my Mark IV for the moment. I do have other alternatives but decided to stick with the SED = C= 6L6GC.

Pulled the amp chassis out for a tube roll, for swapping only three preamp tubes, why bother? I can use a glove to pull the hot tube out.... rather not since disturbance of the hot tube if it is in good working order may lead to issues if you jar it by accident. With the chassis out, I wanted to keep the reverb active so I borrowed the reverb tank from the Mark IV. I staged the next two photo's, when I do a tube roll, I do not leave tubes and their boxes on the amp.... What works for me if all I had were humbucker guitars is as follows:
V1 Tung Sol
V2 Mullard CV4004
V3-V4-V5 Mesa (current production)
V6 Sovtek LPS
Rectifiers Mesa Current Production
Power tubes SED =C= 6L6GC.

The Mullard 12ax7 reissue (long plate) sounded great with all channels, however, the long plate design can begin to self oscillate when channel changing due to voltage shifting on the tubes. Also they have a slight roll off on the upper frequencies. The Preferred Series (which are selected Ruby tubes) are not bad either but seem to enhance the low end more than I wanted. Tung sol in V1 and V2 was the best overall performance for both Humbuckers and single coils. Both Tweed and Brit sounded the best with the Tung Sol in V1 and V2.

I also tried a JAN/GE 5751 in V1 while the Mullard CV4004 was in the V2 position. WOW! what a notable difference in CH3 and CH4. No drop in gain at all, but more enhancemet of the low end, still remained tight. Actually the overall tone was quite sinister. If you like death metal or want some more bite, definitely try a JAN/GE 5751 in V1 with a Mullard CV4004 in V2. Another note on the Mullard CV4004, it will give your amp a slight EL34 character while still using 6L6 tubes. This is primarily due to the slight scoop in the upper mids. I was going to settle on this but decided to use a tube with lower gain (Tung Sol). I have also tried the EH 12AX7 which is almost identical to the CV4004 in appearance but not in character. EH had similar gain character but overall tone was converse of the CV4004. It seems that V2 will provide more of a change in character of the amp than V1. Before changing V2, it did not seem to matter what I put into V1 all that much. Perhaps just my perception.....

 

[bandit2013]

I put all the tubes back to stock just to hear the difference.... that did not last long and went back to what sounds great to me. I also tried a Mesa (1990's ) Chinese tube in V3 which did not make much of a difference in characteristics. I do have some current Chinese tubes similar to the Mesa but with a round halo (not the square getter) to try in the cathode follower tube positions. I can live with the Mesa branded JJ tubes in V3 and V5. The reverb sounds great with the Mesa tube as well so no need to change that either. Choice of power tubes will help with the low drone but also V1 and V2 greatly improve overall character. Since this is a Class A/B amp, a matched triode in the PI (V6) is a good option. I generally use Sovtek LPS here. The amp seems more responsive with the LPS than with the JJ tube even though they have similar characteristics. The tone is still there in the Modern mode but with a difference on the gain characteristic. Lows are still dominant in CH4, however the low end drone is not as noticeable. The Tung Sols coupled with the SED =C= 6L6GC will add more brightness overall, no ice pick either or brittle tones even with a single coil. I may experiment further with some other tube combinations. May even try an integrated quad (a pair of TAD 6L6GC and SED =c= 6L6GC sounded great in the Mark IV) One thing you cannot do unless you had a Mark III or Mark IV is combine EL34 with 6L6GC, the exception would be the Road King. Perhaps I will get one of those some day in the near or late future, just has too many tubes ($$$$$$$) to replace when the time comes. Considering I have five tube amps already, 4 of which are Mesa and the other is a small practice amp I picked up for ease of travel.

Perhaps I should just end the post and be done with it. The Roadster is one great amp I am happy to have. Seems endless with what you can find with just a few tweaks of the controls. I am almost tempted to get another cab (straight 412) for a complete full stack. The only ***** of it would be picking up the slanted cab to place on top. Having two slanted cabs already is enough.

 

[bandit2013]

Just for kicks, wanted to try the TAD6L6GC-STR in the Roadster again. I only had them in for a short time and wanted to compare to the SED=C=6L6GC. They seemed a bit weak in the amp for the same reason the KT77 sounded weak. Most of the power tubes I have on reserve were ordered for the Mark V and specifically requested "for hot bias" when I ordered the tubes. The same applies to the SED tubes, however they sound great. I went back to the factory originals once again. This time for good. I was able to address the issue with drone with adjustments on the bass but had another idea. Remove the seal on the 412 cabinet and rewire it. Two things have changed in the cabinet prior to getting the Roadster, I replaced two of the EV with new one's (the two I took out I are in use with my combo amps) so breaking in new speakers with ones that are broken in is part of the problem. I rewired the cab as a series parallel circuit such that the old and new speakers are in parallel to each other. That cured the drone issue for now. I did what ever I could to get it to come back and so far no more.... will see. So now back again to all mesa tubes. I really love the full saturated complex harmonics I can get from the power tubes. I do not mind the deep tone either. If I need that extra edge to cut though the mix, I know what I can do to get there. So I guess I am back where I started, not a bad thing at all. Sure I changed tubes out of curiosity, and it sounded good. I actually like the original tubes that came with the amp. I only wish my Mark V would sound this good, never mind, it does but only different.. 8)

 

[blackoutshred]

Dude, your posts are golden every time, I really appreciated it, keep on that!

Guess what, got my Roadster!!!! it finally arrived yesterday without any kind of drawbacks... I have notice a different hum (response by the transformers) when the amp is on, standby on/off compared to my JVM (that is more quiet) and a quick spring rattle as soon I turn the amp on (reverb tank is getting the initial current blast?), but dont thing something can be wrong at all. I can hear the reverb springs vibrating too after the initial blast (or something like that, maybe tubes?, it definitely sounds like springs to me cause of the electricity going through or transformer hum), in whatever mode or position and, to hear it you have to be dead-quiet or be willing to find it. Any thoughts about this? guess is normal for my experience in tube amps (but never know, first Mesa).

Overall, woa! the first impresion can't be better, it crushes the JVM in almost every way (still got its mojo for sure), I'm amaze about the quality, it's overwhelming. Expect a NAD and my first thoughts soon. Cool pics coming - unboxing process!

Thanks so much for helping me buy this beast, couldn't be happier.

 

[bandit2013]

Dude, your posts are golden every time, I really appreciated it, keep on that!

Guess what, got my Roadster!!!! it finally arrived yesterday without any kind of drawbacks... I have notice a different hum (response by the transformers) when the amp is on, standby on/off compared to my JVM (that is more quiet) and a quick spring rattle as soon I turn the amp on (reverb tank is getting the initial current blast?), but dont thing something can be wrong at all. I can hear the reverb springs vibrating too after the initial blast (or something like that, maybe tubes?, it definitely sounds like springs to me cause of the electricity going through or transformer hum), in whatever mode or position and, to hear it you have to be dead-quiet or be willing to find it. Any thoughts about this? guess is normal for my experience in tube amps (but never know, first Mesa).

Overall, woa! the first impresion can't be better, it crushes the JVM in almost every way (still got its mojo for sure), I'm amaze about the quality, it's overwhelming. Expect a NAD and my first thoughts soon. Cool pics coming - unboxing process!

Thanks so much for helping me buy this beast, couldn't be happier.

I am glad you are happy with it. The Roadster is a great amp.
On power up in standby, noise you are hearing is the filament transformer, along with the expanding metal of the heaters and glass envelopes of the power tubes. Rectifier tubes may also make some initial noise too. IF you hear a rush of reverb kick in after taking out of standby, that is normal. There is a lot to explore with this amp. I am really loving a low gain setting on CH4 in Modern mode (diodes) I use CH3 set to tube tracking with a similar setting. Definitely getting a nice classic rock tone since there is plenty of gain in Modern voice mode, backing off the gain setting will gain a bit of headroom but yet have enough bite for some good ol Zep or ACDC. I actually like the stock tubes. I have tried the other popular types to get an idea how different the amp will sound if I want to change its character. I resolved the drone issue, I put the casters on the cabinet to get it off of the floor. Still have some noise vibrating thought the AC register on the floor. **** that steel ductwork. Where I had all of the amps, the duct work passes directly underneath. I moved the Roadster to a different location and the drone and low frequency buzz almost went away (I still hear it but it is where the amp used be located. ) Never realized how much air movement the 412 cabinet creates. Then again, I should learn to drop the volume a bit. I always keep playing louder and louder (love that tube saturation and complex harmonics I can get when the power tubes clip, that is just heaven to my ears but probably hell for my hearing.)

I do like my other amps, but do I really need them? The Mark IV seems a bit dated. The RA100 is nice but I can do everything with the Roadster this amp can do. The Mark V, well that would be hard to part with. It has its own unique sound and tone that I cannot achieve with any of the other amps. However, it took me a while to get it there with tube rolling, speaker changes, etc.. The Roadster on the other hand, was perfect out of box and I could not be happier with it. I would be happy with just the V30 cab, but the EV cab is a different beast on its own. I am considering building another 412 cab or just get another Mesa cab. I am tempted to get a empty Mathers 412 and stuff some Jensen Blackbirds in it. I am a bit on the fence about the ALNICO driver, I could just get three more WGS Black Hawks and save a little money. That speaker really kicks *** in the Mark V (sounded better than the EV) I may put it back in again.

 

[blackoutshred]

Cool man... I've played the mark V before and wasn't very impress with it, not bad but just not what I was looking for (maybe I didn't give it enough time to grow on me). The Roadster in the other hand is amazing, the low frequencies are crushing, I've never felt something like that before (the best feeling you can get with a new amp), and the greatest part is, it wasn't even cranked! (ch 4 - modern - master at 2pm and output at 9 o'clock). The ch 3 Vintage is quite similar to the overall JVM OD sound which is a great thing, I'm so used to it and for me, kicks ***. Ch 1 tweed is by far the best mode for clean IMO, crushes the Marshalls and lastly, ch 2 brit is the only one I'm having issues with... not crazy about the way it's voiced but obviously, 4 days with it is not enough to make my mind around it, let's see what happends.

Checked out my NAD post in the board + first impressions... would love to hear from you there... (maybe you can fill some of my questions, like you usually do).

Cheers,

Alan.

 

[bandit2013]

I will look for your post.

Well, the Mark V won me over when I went to purchase the Roadster back in 2012 at Guitar Center when they sold Mesa's. I tried both amps though the same cabinet. I believe it was a bias I had towards the Mark series amps (Mark III and Mark IV) and the Mark V tops both of them. Over the years I have frequently tried the Rectifier amps and just did not sit well with me in the various shops I have tried them. I did like the Nomad though but could not pull the trigger since I recently bought the Mark IV at that time. I knew there was more to the Roadster than what I heard in the shop. So I decided to get one site unseen from Sweetwater and could not be happier.

As for the WGS Black Hawk HP100 (fully broken in) was not rewarding enough to use it. Put it in the Mark V combo and decided to give it a change. Not bad on CH2 and CH3, Excellent on CH1 clean. For what I use the Mark V for, it just did not deliver the performance that I would get from an EVM12L Black Label. After 4 hours of use I put the EV back in. I did not play the Mark V combo before swapping speakers so I would not be suffering from ear fatigue. I believe it was the bass response and low mids, was lacking authority even when coupled with the extension speaker (now has Fane Studio 12L in it). With the EV back in the combo, and coupled to the extension cab, it is back to a 412 sound from two speakers.

 

[blackoutshred]

look no further :lol:

http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=68166

Rock on!

 

[bandit2013]

afaik, Mesa rebrands JJ tubes. you may as well buy from eurotubes, it's cheaper. i had problems with a brand new stiletto from mesa hollywood a few years back and the tubes kept shorting. returned for a refund.

Yes, they do. Have you ever compared the JJ tubes to the Mesa branded tubes? I have a few of the JJ tubes but they seem a bit harsh compared to the Mesa tubes, probably due to the sorting process.

 

[bandit2013]

I began another tube roll with the Roadster, I focused primarily on the preamp tubes and decided to leave the Mesa Power tubes in place.

My focus was on V1,V2 and V3. I had nearly 5 each of the Tung Sol, Mullard reissue, Mullard CV4004, EH, Preferred Series 7025, Mesa 1990 Chinese (square getter), JJ tubes similar to Mesa, and few Sovtek LPS (matched) and one JAN/GE5751. Most of the tubes I bought over the years that either got used in my other amps or were in for a short time but decided it was not what I was looking for in terms of character. Due to my haste I accidentally mixed up the Stock V1, V2 and V6

Not really much to report and would rather post a lengthy report in the tube section. Two tubes that really stuck out of the selection were the Sovtek LPS in V6 and the JAN/GE5751 in V1 or V2. I mixed and matched the other tubes in V1 and V2 including the stock Mesa tubes. Due to my mistake, I realized that when I put the stock tubes back in, it sounded better than before. So what ever tube that was returned into V6 was not the one that was there previously. Actually this mix up made a difference in overall tone and character of the amp. There was not much of a difference between the stock mesa and the Sovtek LPS. The mix up seemed to brighten things up. Shortly thereafter, I decided to abandon the after market replacement tubes and see what else I can discover with the Stock tubes in different positions. Swapped V4 with V5, moved V3 to V2, and put back the last two stock tubes. Just in swapping the preamp tubes I was able to obtain a tone and character that I found suitable for both my single coil and humbucker axes. It was the humbucker equipped guitars that promoted the change (high gain channels seemed muddy or too saturated which seemed to have too much of everything in the modern modes even with the controls dialed nearly out). Just swapping the Mesa preamp tubes as an experiment made a world of difference. Trying out the substitutions of various brands seemed to take away what I liked in the amp. Perhaps I am just nuts or is it that I am trying to get a Mark out of a DR. I did get really close to just that with JAN/GE in V1, Mullard CV4004 in V2 and Sovtek LPS in V6 with stock power tubes. Similar results with tung sol in V1 and V2 and change of power tubes to SED =C=6L6GC did the same thing.

So much for following a different balloon, the one I got is fine with me. Also do not need to replicate the Mark V tone since I have one.

 

[bandit2013]

Before returning the amp chassis back into it's shell, I decided to try out other tubes that would be suitable in the CF positions.
Ruby HG Chinese, Ruby HG JJ, Preferred Series 7025, and Penta Labs. Both the Ruby HG Chinest and the Preferred Series 7025 share common internals. Penta Labs are similar to the old Mesa Chinese tubes but with a round halo (don't sound the same though).

Before going any further, I wanted to make sure I was satisfied with the Stock tube or what I have in my stash. What tubes will complement the Mesa STR440. I reinstalled the Sovtek LPS in V6 which I believe sounded a little better with all channels when compared to the Mesa tube. At least I know it has matched triodes. I did like the JAN/GE 5751 but there was something better. Recalling my choice to swap both V1 and V2 with Tung Sol 12ax7, not bad but seemed to be missing something. Since I was not using any of the Mullard CV4004 I gave them another shot. Now that was the fix for my low droning woes with a neck though humbucker walnut guitar. Tightened up the frequency response much better than the Tung Sol. I guess there may be some merit to the Tung Sol but the one's I have available have at best 3 months of use on them. With the CV4004 in V1 and V2, the tone of the Mesa is still there but with improved low end, and more brilliance to the top end without being harsh. It gives the amp a bit of creamy sound in the fat mod of CH1 or CH2 and yet retains clarity for clean modes. The Brit mode never sounded better ! Now I am happy, getting very close to the Mark V crunch tone
Definitely an improvement in vintage voice, raw voice was about the same. Modern is where the huge difference is due to the higher gain settings. WOW now this amp definitely has some balls to it. More definition in chording and single note with the humbuckers, single coil guitar also sounded great with a bit of edge to it. The Tung Sol made the single coil guitar on the brittle side, the Mullard CV4004 was bright but not brittle, actually a bit smooth with more roll off on the upper harmonics similar to the long plate Mullard RI 12ax7, only difference in the medium plate cv4004 is the increased gain.

Back to what I mentioned earlier. I did like the change from Mesa to the Ruby HG tubes. I installed the JJ version in V3 and the Chinese in V5. I did not expect much of a tone difference. Even the Penta Labs or the Preferred series 7025 sounded very close to the Mesa JJ tubes. One thing I did notice, a bit of fizziness with the Mesa in V5 in CH1 or CH2 clean. I put in another Mesa tube and it went away. At least I know what to expect come the time to change the CF tubes. For the time being, I will keep the Mesa tubes in the CF. Also changed the reverb tube, the Mesa tube sounded best over all for the reverb circuit.

Then I got thinking, that RA100 shell looks really good, I wonder if the Roadster chassis would fit...... nope, it will not. Roadster chassis is much longer than the RA100.

 

[bandit2013]

Back to basics once again. I do like the tone of the Mullard CV4004 in the Roadster, but yet feel like something is missing.... yep, a better understanding of how this amp works. Re-read the manual again... and popped the stockers back in. Decided to give the amp the full rundown with all of the sample settings but this time with my guitar that was making me think there was too much bass. Setting #3 Tweed Howl and #4 Fat Solo, SWEEET Punch me in the Face Power I was using 100W not 50W. How did I miss all of this the first time around? I know, I was after the high gain stuff, it is here as well. :shock: Actually all sample settings for channel 1 were great. Setting #3 is probably the closest I have gotten to the Mark V crunch with the gain maxed out. Messed around with Ch2 for a while with all 4 sample settings. Ch3 liquid solo Recto Vintage is awesome settings. Then I decided to loose my hearing even more with CH4 setting #3Hot Liquid Solo and Recto Modern CH4#4. What on earth was I doing wrong? All sounded great. Then again the palm muting is where I have the issues. I guess I need to learn how to play the guitar the proper way. I basically got use to the amp with a single coil super strat which is a bit different than my other axes. No more tube rolling for this amp, the stockers are all that is needed.

 

[blackoutshred]

So... 3 months period thoughts? :roll: I know that I have mine!!!!!

I saw in other post that you recommended the mark v over the Roadster... really? This is the best amp I've heard for now. :twisted:

Give us an in depth comparison between the two or something :lol:

Cheers man,

Alan.