NAD JP2C, well ok, almost

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It is what it is. No go for the Bad, I can accept that. I would also recommend staying away from the Triple Crown, that would fall into a similar category. That would also include the Royal Atlantic, Electra Dyne, Stiletto of any variety, Maveric and probably all of the Rectifier related amps in general.

So, the JP2C, just curious if you found out what power tubes it came with. STR# and bias color would be helpful. Mesa used the STR440 in the JP2C from its launch, they moved to the STR443 after the Shuguang fire and lack of STR440 tubes (2019 is about the time I was told that Mesa is looking at different tubes when I was at the Hollywood store that year before it closed for good.) I already know what comes stock in the Mark VII, those are the STR445. If the JP2C is a new amp, it would have the STR443 tubes and a different set of transformers than the original release in 2016. Not sure when the transformer manufacturer was changed (2021?)

Has anyone received a new JP2C with the new Schumacher transformers?

I bought mine in 2016 which also had the FX loop fix for the clean channel along with an addendum notice from Mesa indicating this was done to correct the volume differences from CH1 and the other two channels. The Channel master controls seem different than the Mark VII. I need to run them at noon to be at the same loudness of the Mark VII at 9am. Makes me wonder if I need to swap out V2 to see if that improves anything.
Since I have the STR443s in mine, I probably also have the Schumachers in it too. How can I tell?

I was wondering about the volumes: at 9o'clock, it's a loud TV volume. My old MKIV would have leveled buildings at 9. Different taper?
At 9o'clock mines approaching moderate drum levels. Mines a 2018, so I couldn't tell you about the transformer differences. Mine came with 440's.
I've been using 441's for a couple of years now though. Liking them better than the 440, 443, 445, and 448's I've tried.
Some advice on the JP2C after you get it. Have fun. See what power tubes they are using in the amp, I am curious if they are still using the STR443 or did they make a change to the STR448 or STR445 tubes. When I bought mine in 2016, it came loaded with the STR440 which I feel are far better sounding than the STR443 tubes. The STR448 opened up a new world of tone which I felt was missing with the STR443 tubes when I tried them. The STR445 also sounded good too. The best option if you do not mind spending $500 on a quad of tubes, this is a special order but you need to get them direct from Mesa by emailing customer service. They may still have the STR415 Sylvania tubes but are not set up for retail purchasing. It is a special request, more of a private transaction. Highly recommended. If they are not available, bummer. The next best thing is the STR448 in green or gray bias color. Both the STR448 and the STR415 will wake up the JP2C to its full potential. If you like the tubes that are in it, no need to change. I felt there was more chime in the clean channel with the STR448 tubes. I got those in a gray bias color just like the other tubes I have tried. STR415 are only available in green which is used as the gold standard for Mesa testing.

As for the Mark VII, it is not redundant by any means. Sure, the IIC+ mode is on par with the JP2C (if the amp has the STR415 power tubes installed in it). It may be a tad bit brighter but very close to CH 2 in all respects. The tone density is a bit more with the JP2C as it is a Class A/B amp. Note definition is usually related to the bias color in the Mark VII. Mine came with the STR445 greens, I changed to the yellow bias color in the STR445 tube which improved note definition. Now it is much closer to the JP2C with the STR415 tubes. Mark IV mode is also close to the JP2C channel 3, and the fat clean is very much the same as the clean channel but the exception is that you can get more gain out of the Mark VII clean channels. Tone controls behave a little differently than the JP2C. Since they do not sound identically the same, just very similar, it is not redundant. Also the Mark VII can do other things the JP2C cannot do. Without a doubt, I am sure I could dial in the JP2C to mimic crunch as I could do with the Badlander. The Mark VII has two modes that will be out of phase with the JP2C if you decide to run them in parallel. Crunch and IIB. This is also the case with the Badlander but with the crunch mode only. Crush will be in the same phase and in a similar spectrum of character as the Mark VII and JP2C. Mark VII mode is an extension of the crunch as this inserts the lead dive circuit in a different location. The tone stack becomes post gain in Crunch and Mark VII modes. In the IIB, IIC and IV and both clean modes, the tone stack is pre-gain.

The other difference is the power section. Simul-Class vs Class A/B. JP2C and the Badlander are both Class A/B. The Mark VII runs full pentode in 90W, drops the Class A/B outer pair of tubes in 45W extended class A but still pentode, and at 25W it is extended class A in triode. There may be some similarities to the Badlander100, it too runs two tubes in triode in the 25W power setting but it will be a Class A/B not extended class A. The Badlander sounds best with the STR447 EL34 or the new STR446 EL34 (red base TAD tubes). I really like the STR446 EL34 a bit better but not using them as I have two Badlander 100 used in stereo. The STR448 in the gray bias color also sound great in the Badlander but the EL34 is much better for this amp.

I would say there are some similar traits with the Mark VII and the Badlander 100. The clean modes are different but equally as good. I can dial in the BAD clean for that plexi sound where as the Mark VII gets a little wooly with a moderate gain on the clean. Not quite the same circuitry used in the preamp. Crunch vs Crunch, they are close but different. Blending of the BAD and mark VII sound really good together. The BAD has one slight advantage, note definition is more detailed than the Mark VII but this depends on the power tubes used in the Mark VII. Also the BAD has a variac power mode that brings the amp much closer to the MWDR characteristic and scoops out the tone. No Variac power on the Mark VII or JP2C. As for the VII modes, it is also close to the Crush mode on the BAD. Close but not identical. There are some tonal variations with the BAD as the preamp circuit is different than the Mark amp. The BAD still uses the cold clipper circuit and dc coupled cathode follower for the tone stack driver. This is not found in the Mark VII. It does not mean you cannot get a close approximation of the BAD with the Mark VII or even the JP2C. That was my first thought when I ran the BAD in Crush, it sounds like the JP2C, call it the poor man's JP2C as that amp is now priced above what I would be willing to pay.

I would almost say the Mark VII has the Badlander built into it, only in terms of character and tone. I can dial in the Mark VII to get very close to the Badlander and I can also do the same with the JP2C. There are still differences in response and characteristics which is more related to the preamp circuits than the power tube circuit but that also play a role in the differences. Here is a graphic matrix of the JP2C, Mark VII and BAD. This is for the gain modes only. JP2C and Mark VII share a common topography but are different in vocal characteristics.
View attachment 2559 View attachment 2560View attachment 2561

The rounded rectangles represent one triode in the 12AX7 tube. Note that there are two triodes per preamp tube. For V1 tube, it would have a 1A and 1B triode. Badlander is much closer to a Marshall preamp than the any of the Dual rectifier amps as it has a 15k ohm cathode resistor vs the 39k ohm in the cold clipper circuit (light blue color) along with cathode follower tubes (purple color). As for the JP2C/Mark VII I highlighted the lead drive circuits in red.

I am a sucker for running in stereo, reason why I have two Badlander 100. Mark VII has the black face plate and the JP2C has a cream/black jute faceplate. I did change the faceplates as the JP2C will fit in place of the one on the Mark VII. Since I will be bringing out the JP2C again (it is in the other room) I will just put on the original JP2C black faceplate so my OCD does not kick in. I do not mind the cabs not matching the amps. I honestly do not feel one or the other would be redundant. Bad, MKVII or JP2C. They are not identical but can be dialed in for a close match. JP2C can only be dropped to 60W, but the other two have a lower half power BAD 50/ VII 45 and both have the 25W power. Bad will take it down a notch in variac power mode.

View attachment 2562
bro. holy f? ur posts length EVERY time!

aint no one textin u back after that first couple eh?
Awesome amp. Yea the 7 is worth having too, I own a green simul as well. Mark3 are more vintage sound due to components “, so a 3 is always on mu radar (own several as well).
The JP/7 main differences is H section & the channels on JP are all johns amps c+ basically with shred for drop and downtune.
7 has a perfect C+ and 8 other modes that quite honestly if you can get ANY sound out of it in 5 mins of dialing give up.
Easiest mark amp I own to dial, likes all speakers and cabs. JP like v30 or 75 derivatives.

also, if you cant make a stock mesa amp work with stock oem tubes they were designed around and any speaker/cab really, stop typing all that professional “i know **** long posts” and go practice.
yes. meant for u.

We all have our opinions. Like it or not. I tend to write more than I should.

I should practice more. I cannot disagree on that.

I do not know everything. I can only reflect on my experiences. Perhaps silence is a better thing for me to practice than to participate in the forums. Not trying to come off as a know-it-all. My apologies if I offended you.
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No one else is contributing to this board like you do, Bandit; you have nothing to apologize for!
I get it,some want right to the point,dnt wanna read a story.i get that.But at the same time,this is the boogie board and all things mesa,if anyone's gonna get in depth on a mesa,this is where I'd want to see that.
Always better to have more info than not enough and then have to ask 50 million questions over said post.
Anyways, I played a stock vii last night for 4 hrs,@ gig vol.Prob got ear fatigue,but as nice as it was,I guess I'm so used to my iic+ and mkiii coli's they sound bigger,wider,deeper,mids sit better,etc than the vii.i do like it better than the v for sure.Gonna have to put a jp thru its paces and see what happens.
Sure I do, some people vising the site using a cell phone. I get it. It is all good. I would not want to read my posts either if all I had was a phone to view this site. I use a PC, so it is easy to get carried away.
Sure I do, some people vising the site using a cell phone. I get it. It is all good. I would not want to read my posts either if all I had was a phone to view this site. I use a PC, so it is easy to get carried away.
Personally, I don't see what the problem is. Your posts are very informative, and one can simply choose to skip it if one wants. Better more knowledge/opinions than none.

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