My Roadster is squishy, temperamental, and noisy. Advice?

[Purist]

I bought my Roadster a little over a year ago. I gig alot, have loud practices several times a week. This amp has been all stress. It feeds back like crazy all the time in the gain channels when cranked up, was picking up radio signals (I think that was my wah pedal, but who knows), and recently started having volume/gain losses mid song. Almost like I had a bad cable, but I've checked all my 1/4" cables. It wasn't a fade in/out of volume and gain.. It was a cut. I noticed my fxloop light flicker a couple times on the head last time it did it. Maybe a bad cable to my pedal? Maybe bad power? I'm at a loss. I've had it in the shop being looked at 4 times now in the last year. The distortion rarely sounds tight and sharp, though I've tried and tried to dial it in. Maybe it's my ax? I play through an LTD Eclipse 1000 with active. The gain is set at about 9pm on the dirty channels, 100w. Any suggestions?

The other guitarist in my band has a LINE 6 VETTA. I've become the butt of his jokes frequently, in that his VETTA never gives him any trouble, and sounds great all the time. Somebody reassure me that the ROADSTER was the right choice!

 

[Addictedtokaos]

Im new to Mesa's and Tube amps in general, so this may be a stupid response and Im sorry for that.

Did you try retubing it? Or test the tubes by taping them lightly with a pencil to see if they give you static or crackling?

 

[fluff191]

Time for a re-tube.

 

[YellowJacket]

I bought my Roadster a little over a year ago. I gig alot, have loud practices several times a week. This amp has been all stress. It feeds back like crazy all the time in the gain channels when cranked up, was picking up radio signals (I think that was my wah pedal, but who knows), and recently started having volume/gain losses mid song. Almost like I had a bad cable, but I've checked all my 1/4" cables. It wasn't a fade in/out of volume and gain.. It was a cut. I noticed my fxloop light flicker a couple times on the head last time it did it. Maybe a bad cable to my pedal? Maybe bad power? I'm at a loss. I've had it in the shop being looked at 4 times now in the last year. The distortion rarely sounds tight and sharp, though I've tried and tried to dial it in. Maybe it's my ax? I play through an LTD Eclipse 1000 with active. The gain is set at about 9pm on the dirty channels, 100w. Any suggestions?

The other guitarist in my band has a LINE 6 VETTA. I've become the butt of his jokes frequently, in that his VETTA never gives him any trouble, and sounds great all the time. Somebody reassure me that the ROADSTER was the right choice!

Line 6 Vetta do not sound great, they sound OK. The guy has a tin ear if he thinks that his amp has better 'tone' than a Roadster.

Hmm, you've had it in the shop and they didn't think to check your tubes? Tubes are kind of like tires on a car, you have to switch them when they wear out. When they wear out depends a lot on how you drive. I think changing your tubes will be the first troubleshooting approach. Tube amps sound GREAT but they are tempermental and prone to this sort of thing happening. Crazy feedback, loss of gain, volume issues, etc are all a sign of bad tubes. Best thing is to go and get the tubes replaced NOW before something fails on you. Have you read your amplifier manual? Do you let your tubes warm up before using them? In the manual, there is information on how to test your tubes to find a bad one. You don't necessarily have to replace all of them since there might only be one or two bad ones. Check the power tubes and the preamp tube in v1 slot first. The v1 tubes is the preamp tube that gets abused the most so chances are it is on the way out. The manual will tell you where these are all located!

If the pencil tapping method doesn't yield any results, buy a couple of Mesa labeled Sp12ax7a tubes and play the swap out game to see what fixes problem. There is a chance one tube in your amp was a dud from the time it shipped out. Even Rototube misses things on occasion. I personally have a silver converted briefcase I take everywhere with me. It has about 5 backup 12ax7s, 2 rectifier tubes, fuses, and a full set of power tubes. We pulled out the insides of the case and filled it with foam. Definitely build one, as it will save you many headaches in the long run.

I still think it is slightly odd that you've had so much trouble with your amp. My '93 Rev F dual has only blown two fuses in the 8 or 9 odd years I've had it. Oh, and I had a bad tube at one point but I got that replaced under warranty!

 

[UnderJollyRoger]

The distortion rarely sounds tight and sharp, though I've tried and tried to dial it in. Maybe it's my ax? I play through an LTD Eclipse 1000 with active. The gain is set at about 9pm on the dirty channels, 100w. Any suggestions?

What music are you playing ? For Metal and things like that, I think you would need a bit more gain to make it sound tight and sharp ... on the other hand, at least it shouldn't go into feedback that easily, even when playing at higher volumes. So I also would think about a retubing ...

 

[Purist]

Yeah, I play heavy rock/ metal mostly. Thanks for the responses, guys. As far as the tubes go, the local MESA certified guy in my town has pulled them all out and tested them with his cool machine twice now, one of which he replaced for me about 6 months ago. I've also blown 2 fuses already in the thing, and had it for only a year like i said. It just seems like if it's not one thing it's another, and I've been debating looking for another amp. I'll try the pencil trick, and if that doesn't work I'll just start replacing tubes.. Hopefully this fixes it! I really like the **** thing, otherwise. When it's actually sounding good, it sounds AWESOME haha

 

[ryjan]

The gain is set at about 9pm on the dirty channels, 100w. Any suggestions?

quote]
There's your problem right there. It's supposed to be set at 9:00 AM :lol:

 

[Purist]

9am- that's like classic rock style haha I play METAL. I need all the gain I can get! Shouldn't the Roadster be able to handle high gain?

 

[ryjan]

It was a joke 9:00 is 9:00 no matter what the am, pm, bc, or whatever. Are you trying to convey 3:00?

 

[Purist]

Haha oh man this time system is really getting confusing.. Let's just say it's turned to 7.5-8 usually :lol:

 

[UnderJollyRoger]

Hmm, to be true, this would explain a lot. Do you really set the gain to 7 or 8 (out of 10) ?
With this amount and high volume, horrible feedback is pretty much the only answer ...

Please clarify your gain setting.

 

[ryjan]

9:00 would be pointing straight left. 12:00 is pointing straight up. 3:00 is pointing straight right. Try settings that are recommended in the manual. Please tell me that you have the manual.

 

[Purist]

Of course I have the manual! It comes with it.. I just haven't dug through it much! :lol:

3:00 is about right. Not cranked all the way, but enough to give it a thick growl. That can't be too much to ask! And horrible feedback isn't the only issue I've had with it, really. Total sound cut outs have been happening more frequently, and I mentioned before the FX loop light flickering when it did it just the last time. Makes no sense!

I know there's alot to learn about these amps, and honestly it's my first tube amp in 15 years of playing. I'm a tube noob. haha

 

[YellowJacket]

9am- that's like classic rock style haha I play METAL. I need all the gain I can get! Shouldn't the Roadster be able to handle high gain?

With the recto, the gain gets mushy and squishy when you turn it up too high. It says this in the manual. See, I had assumed that you had your gain at 3 out of 10, not 7 or 8, so I figured it was simply bad tubes. Now I realize that you were simply turning the gain to high. Playing style and EQ is as important as gain so in other words, setting your highs more aggressively will give you more bite to the tone. You'll find that many of the metal guys are maybe not using as saturated a tone as you would like to believe. If you have your gain pinned, you are slaughtering the 12ax7 in v1. It is no wonder you are ending up with problems.

Hot tip, Rectos do metal but many guys here boost them. The TS-9 or maxon OD808 are both popular pedals for this. My friend just bought a metal muff used today so we were boosting the recto with that. You seriously would not believe how much more aggressive the tone was with the front end boosted. (EQ set flat, gain at 0 and volume maxed) The amp felt very tight, defined, and direct, with loads of gain saturation. With the top boost on the pedal engaged, the tone got downright brutal. Get this, I was playing on the CLEAN channel of my 2 channel Dual with the gain at 12:00noon aka 5 out of 10. =-o So ya, this was vintage high gain, not modern!!!!

Also consider the pickups / guitar you are using as this also affects tone. Out of curiosity, what speaker cab(s) are you using? This affects tone in a HUGE way as well.

What music are you playing ? For Metal and things like that, I think you would need a bit more gain to make it sound tight and sharp ... on the other hand, at least it shouldn't go into feedback that easily, even when playing at higher volumes. So I also would think about a retubing ...

Honestly, gain doesn't add tightness and sharpness. You have to add highs and presence for that. Instead, gain adds thickness and girth to the tone at first, but after awhile it just gets mushy and squishy. A boost helps as well, **** does it help. I was shocked. the overall tone of the amp wasn't affected, the tone was just sharp and super clean. It felt fast and not mushy at all!

Of course I have the manual! It comes with it.. I just haven't dug through it much! :lol:
I'm a tube noob. haha

Not surprised.

Three things to do:

1) Read and memorize the manual!

2) Turn down the gain until the tone is a bit less than you can stand it. Tubes by nature have less gain saturation (buzziness) than solid state amps. The tone will open up and start to roar as the amp sounds louder. If it doesn't roar enough, use the 50watt setting for distortion instead. That is what it is there for!

3) Use higher gain settings for shred solos and lower for crunch / rhythm. Also practice using pick attack to shape tone. If you play heavier and harder, the tubes will crunch more! If you back off, the distortion will clean up.

 

[Purist]

I play through a Mesa 4x12 cab, and an ESP LTD Eclipse 1000 with active EMG's.

So- are you saying to add a TS-9 or other similar pedal to the dirty channel on the roadster..? When you say EQ set flat.. are you talking about the pedal or on the amp channel? Whatever you're talking about, it sounds pretty badass haha

 

[YellowJacket]

I play through a Mesa 4x12 cab, and an ESP LTD Eclipse 1000 with active EMG's.

So- are you saying to add a TS-9 or other similar pedal to the dirty channel on the roadster..? When you say EQ set flat.. are you talking about the pedal or on the amp channel? Whatever you're talking about, it sounds pretty badass haha

Hmmm. Ya, with a boost pedal you are going to be pedal dancing but it does add a definite edge of aggression to the tone. We set the EQ on the Metal Muff pedal flat and my amp EQ was the same as I always use. I would have had to adjust a bit for more metal tone. Generally when dialing a recto, I put all knobs straight up at noon for starts and then dial in with my ears until they sound good.

Ideas for metal tone: 1) GOOD EL-34s instead of 6L6s will give you more aggressive midrange crunch tone. (preference)

2) Use channel four modern for crunch and channel three vintage for lead. Set the gain higher for lead than for crunch. With the recto, I find dialing the bass down does a lot to deal with flub. Is it a Standard Rectocab or a Traditional Rect / Stiletto? The rectocabs tend to be 'saggy' sounding because of the large size.

3) Search threads on boosting rectos here at the boogie board. Lots of guys do this!

4) Tubes are weird. Rule for gain. As you turn up the amp volume, you turn down the gain to compensate. The louder the amp is, the more tube breakup you will get. Conversely, the less loud the amp runs, the less breakup you get. The sweet spot for gain I find is between 11:00 and 1:00 or from 4 - 6, at least when running the amp up at about a third volume. This is generally an appropriate volume for a loud band. When I play quieter, I turn the gain up and when I play louder I turn it down. Now, I typically have it up at 2:00 these days but I'm using a Les Paul with alnico V passive pickups and 50s style wiring so I crank my volume down to give me vintage crunch and I crank it up for searing leads. This is the exact opposite of what you want. You want to smoke the front end of the amp to get a tighter and more direct response. Hotter pickups will do this. A boost will also do this. My friend has a Dimebag Darryl Signature pup in his Jackson. Swapping my Les Paul for that guitar with my current amp settings made for instant metal. Great sounding piece, that. EMGs are great, but maybe you want something else?

4) If you have $$$s or are a handyman, you can either invest in a Mills Acoustics cab for increased tightness and brutality, or you can install your own ported centre baffle in your rectocab to cut the mud. Hey, it is worth trying. If it doesn't work, you can always remove it!

 

[Purist]

Man. You're just full of useful information. I'm gonna screw around with some new settings and get some EL-34's for starters. I hate pedal dancing for sure, so I'll see if I can get the right sound the natural way based on what you've said. Cause honestly, at band practice we play LOUD haha. Like, my channel 3 volume is set at 3:00 and my master volume has been up at 12:00-1:00 at times. What I've learned here, is that it's ok to turn down that gain knob when I'm super cranked up like that. Learn something new every day!

 

[fluff191]

1) GOOD EL-34s instead of 6L6s will give you more aggressive midrange crunch tone.

+1,000,000

 

[YellowJacket]

Man. You're just full of useful information. I'm gonna screw around with some new settings and get some EL-34's for starters. I hate pedal dancing for sure, so I'll see if I can get the right sound the natural way based on what you've said. Cause honestly, at band practice we play LOUD haha. Like, my channel 3 volume is set at 3:00 and my master volume has been up at 12:00-1:00 at times. What I've learned here, is that it's ok to turn down that gain knob when I'm super cranked up like that. Learn something new every day!

So now the whole truth comes out! Please PLEASE tell me you wear hearing protection =-o

Whelp, remember how I said tubes are kind of like tires on a car? I think you've been doing burnouts every day for the past year so chances are your power tubes are entirely cooked. EL-34s do sound great but they aren't as robust as 6L6s and wear out faster. Keep that in mind.

Well, running your levels THAT high, you are going to get some power tube breakup as well as preamp tube breakup so that is partially where the squishing is coming from. Additionally, with the levels that high you are also getting a significant amount of speaker distortion from your 4 x 12 which also accounts for things getting a bit loose. With your gain around 3:00 it is no wonder you just get a huge ball of mud for tone and it would probably sound fairly similar even with new tubes. I've never actually recommended this before, but perhaps you'd benefit from a second 4 x 12? Either that or maybe some of those EV 12L -or whatever they are- 200watt speakers. A 600watt cab or a couple of cabs would help keep things much more crisp and tight at these extreme volumes.

 

[ryjan]

This being your first tube amp will also cause your head to spin. My first tube amp was a Triaxis and a 2:90 (learning curve). For a while I was dissapointed in the Triaxis and thought something must be wrong with it because I didn't hear the sounds comming out of it that I had heard at Metallica concerts. In the end I learned a lot about (the lack of) my playing technique and settings. Good tubes, factory recommended settings, practice, fresh strings, and more practice. Playing through a tube amp is very, very different and can be frustrating until your ear and style developes.