My first day with the Mark V and I'm really underwhelmed

[Findthetone]

Hey folks, after a few years, I decided to come back to "Camp Boogie" and purchase a Mark V head. I have been using a Marshall JVM 205H for the past few years and while it's a good amp, it's not a great amp so I thought I'd try a Boogie again and I'm some what disappointed with the Mark V so far. Channels 1 &2 are really impressive and I never tried channel 3 in the the store because I was so impressed with 2 I thought 3 would just have a crushing amount of gain. It doesn't. I can get an awesome tone out of the MK1 setting on channel 2 with my OCD engaged but switching over to 3 it becomes a thin mess with it seems less gain than channel 2. I'm not new to Boogies having an early Dual Rec (what a dumb *** for selling that), a few DC models and a Roadster so I know some time and tweaking can be involved but I've pretty much tweaked and I am not happy. I even swapped for EL34s and changed the V3 in case it's bad with the same results. I'll check V1 and V2 tomorrow. Anybody have any ideas before I take this thing back?

BTW, I am using several different Les Pauls and the head is running through 2 OS 2X12s with a mix of Eminence Wizards and Celestion EVH greenbacks, the loop level is at noon and yes, I read the manual.

 

[ChrisRocksUSA]

I thought the same in the store, but I didn't crank it THAT high. Still though, I think I was using the 10 watt setting.

try what JP uses

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i24e8icZG1o&feature=endscreen&NR=1


lmk if you can get that high gain tone he gets toward the end

 

[gummx97]

i would bring it back asap if it is a brand new amp. channel 3 does have a lot of gain, you might have a bad preamp tube. for the amount of $$$ that you paid, i'd bring it back and not waste any more of your time and see if they can exchange or replace the preamp tubes for you. i bought my V online, and when that amp arrived and tested it, channel 3 gets very similar amount of gain compared to my triaxis.

 

[Bruno Petrucci]

I have an Idea:

Return it and before you buy another amp relying on other people's opinions/tastes, try by yourself as much as you can.

There are 2 types of guys around: first type are people that actually play and make music, even that only at their homes. The second type are the guys that spend a lot amount of time in the internet, participating in foruns and reading a lot about gear and stuff. The latter ones doesn't necessarly know a lot about the real thing. They've read somewhere else someone's opinion (which may had its origins in the same way) and assume that it's a universal rule.
Know, the point is that you MUST try each amp you are interested in and do it with an open mind, forgeting everything you were told about and spend some time with it.

That being said, the Mark V is a great amp that really shines in a band environment. Playing it at home, it doesn't have that "whole band feel" that some amps do (like Engls, Diezels, etc. - because they are focused in lower frequencies that are usually taken by bass players).
So you must decide whether you want the amp to play at home or if it is intended to go to stages or rehearsals, where you will see that this amp will fit perfectly. At the same time (if not before) you have to decide if you like the voice and feel of the amp. That's the most important to me.

An advice: How do you know, when testing amps, that you've found the right one? One big help is when you can find a sound (and feel) that you percept as amazing just by plugging a guitar (and only a guitar) through the amp. Forget about pedals and stuff. They came after that to color the sound of the thing and not to build the sound of it.

Hope this can help you and others in some way

 

[fjk1138]

I have the Mark V and the Marshall 205H, and I like both for separate reasons. Tweaking the Mark V does take some getting used to if you come from the Rectifier side of Mesa (I previously had a Triple Rec and a Roadster) so don't give up on it yet.

Also....Not sure if this will help you, but in comparing a Mark V to the 205H, I have observed the following:

1. The Mark V's Ch 3's gain at 3-4 o'clock is roughly equal to about 1/2 way on the Marshall's orange OD channel (whether it's good or bad is up to you). Either way, I personally find that the Mark V's gain is plenty, and I don't use any OD pedals going into either amp. Also, try switching to Triode on the back (if you haven't already).

2. The Mark V is less forgiving in your playing - you have to be more precise than on the Marshall. On the bright side, it will improve your playing (it did mine).

3. The Mark V is less compressed (if using all 6L6 stock tubes) than the Marshall, and the clean channel is much deeper. I haven't tried EL34's yet, but some guys on the forum here swear by them.

4. The Mark V really needs a certain amount of volume to sound "right", and has way more guts if you don't use the FX loop. If you can play it this way, I believe you will find it beats the Marshall in this area. At the same time, I personally think that the Marshall works better at lower volumes, even with the Mark V at 45 or 10 watt settings, as it feels tighter to me.

5. The Marshall is more of a "plug and play" amp and requires less tweaking. The amount of settings on the Mark V can be intimidating. I had to basically "unlearn" (to use some Yoda speak) my Rectifier mindset of how I tweaked the amp. FWIW, it took me at least a good week to get it where I liked it, but only took me a day to get the Marshall where I liked it.

6. Try the preset EQ knob on Ch 3 before you try the sliders. The sliders are very precise and require a lot of time and patience to get them where you want them. I usually use the preset knob at about 12 o'clock, and only use the sliders as an optional sound (works good for double tracking guitars).

With all this in mind, I highly recommend that you spend some more time with the Mark V and give it a good chance before dismissing it. Good luck, and feel free to PM me if have any questions.

 

[Findthetone]

I have an Idea:

Return it and before you buy another amp relying on other people's opinions/tastes, try by yourself as much as you can.

Where, in my post did I say I bought the amp because of other peoples opinons? I've been playing for close to 30 years, 13 of them playing out and am quite capable of buying amps on my own opinion thank you. If I weren't, I would have rushed out 2 years ago and got the Mark V when it was the "Amp of the week, month etc." according to the internet. My reason for the post was in case I was actually missing something before I take it back.

 

[K-Roll]

Before you move further to another amps I'd like to advise to just try a 4X12 mesa traditional/stiletto cab with this amp .. I find the mark series in general to be reaaaaally picky about speakers.. I run my settings similar to JPs except for that 750Hz slider 9an maybe a touch more treble/gain on the rotary knobs).. If I used the 750 that low I'd get lost in a band mix (dunno why but it just does not sound ok in a band mix that low... I somehow keep it like half an inch below the middle line)
As probably mentioned in some post above the key to obtaining a tight focused tone with enough juice is to use less bass on the rotary bass knob (9-10 o'clock is plenty with most guitars, actually the only kind of guitars that seemed to work Ok with higher bass settigns were a tele and a strat with SCs I tried)
Keep your treble on ch3 around 2o'clock as well as your gain around that value and if you still find the amp to not be responsive or 'fast' when playing there is either something wrong with the amp or it's some kind of gear mismatch..
As mentioned before it's the band where these amps shine the most

 

[Bruno Petrucci]

Ok Guru!

It wasn't my intention to offend anyone's Ego. Take my posts as you want.

Best regards

 

[purpledc]

To the op. Ive had a Mark V for a couple weeks now and I actually understand where your coming from. I love my mark V but Im not a die hard boogie fan. Im only starting now to appreciate the brand and im saying this so you dont think im just blindly defending the brand like some fans of a company would. But anyhow, The amp at first does not appear to be as high gain as you would think. If your looking for dripping sludgy sustain this isnt your amp. Its a very dry and tight sound. And for me no matter what amp I use I use a boost pedal to get it over the top. But just to see if your getting the most out of your amp here are a couple pointers from my "non boogie fan" POV. One thing that should be noted is yes the amp is sensitive to speaker and cab choice. But its also very sensitive to pickups. If your using vintage type pickups you will know they are vintage. But if your using a really high output pickup then this will help push the amp. In fact of ALL the high gain heads ive ever owned I would have to say that this and a krank I used to have are the most sensitive ive ever owned when it comes to your input signal. So if you really want large amounts of gain I would say either high output pickups and or a boost. Many guys you see using these amps are using things like EMG's plus a TS type overdrive.

Also Ive found that believe it or not to get the best low volume tone I find it best to leave the solo and mute functions disengaged. To me having it on with low volume chokes some of th frequencies that are being distorted by the preamp and therefore and overall loss of distortion will seem evident. Try turning those functions off if your only going to go to say 1/4 volume. Also ive found the graphic if engaged can have an effect on the distortion. Cutting certain frequencies that the gain is focused on will make you think your losing distortion. You actually are as your cutting the frequencies that the preamp is focusing on. I personally lower the 750 alot. Almost all the way down. Some who dont have experience with this amp will tell you thats a bad idea and it might be for some applications but its not an automatic tone killer if you drop that slider. Its only one section of the 5 band and even with it all the way down you still have low mids and high mids to help you cut through the mix. And if you watch haggertys music comparison of the Mark V with a dual rec you will understand what im talking about. They have the mark V set up with a radical scooped eq curve and even with the mids turned up halfway on the dual rectifier the recto still sounded more scooped than the mark. Its just the way the amp is set up.

Now even though I drop that middle frequency that is the only one I will cut. All the others are boosted. A little on the 2200 a little more on the 6000 and then I will slightly boost the 220 and then the 80 even more than that one. IMHO if you reduce the 2200 and 6000 fader your going to pull some distortion out of the mix. If you like a darker tone I would say to try and pull off some brightness with the channel specific EQ knobs first and then fine tune with the graphic.

One last thing is for me atleast I find the mark IV mode and the IIc+ modes to be the most aggressive. And of those 2 the IV mode is my favorite. Even though the amp is not as saturated as an engl or a peavey I feel the base tone you start with to be more pleasing. And the amp really takes pedals well without coloring the flavors. I hope what Ive wrote helps you with your amp. And Ill give you my settings to see if it gets you closer to where you want to be. The only other thing I can think of is your speaker situation. I would listen to the amp with the speaker cab pointed straight at your face. Sometimes im happiest with the amp pointed at me so that I get all frequencies coming at me.


Channel 3 set to mark IV mode.
Gain set to 2 o clock
presence at 1 o clock
treble at 2 o clock
mid 10 o clock
bass 9:30
eq engaged
bright switch on

graphic eq is sett in a V pattern but with all frequencies boosted except the 750. I use a very low output humbucker equipped guitar and I boost that signal with a Maxon OD808. Here is a little video I did of the amp. Not the greatest playing and the my settings are slightly tweaked.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nF2kO_78070&feature=g-upl&context=G204a90dAUAAAAAAABAA

 

[yongling]

Don't worry bro, I have gone through what you are going through now. Bet many other Mark V users had. It's like a new born child. The more time you spend with it, the more you understands it, the better it will sound in the end. It's definitely not an amp where you can plug in and sound awesome. Give it time bro and give extra attention to the treble control.

 

[Scary]

I know exactly what you mean Findthetone. Channel 3 just doesn't seem to have the girth the others do. The best way to combat it is to use the extreme mode with the EQ sliders. There should be an endless amount of useable gain there that can be tailored to whatever thickness and bite you desire.

Having said that.. plugging into channel 3 of my Mark IV fills the room with fat juicy tone. It may be the old 420's but it's jaw dropping lush. It's easy.

I can't honestly say which is better because there is alot to be said for the extreme clarity the Mark V allows despite it's *** ripping gain. It's articulate.

IMO the Mark V in pretty finicky with FX. I dig my g-force because it limits it so I can push a little without blowing out my ears. The electro harmonix memory man seems to overload easily, and of course we wouldn't want to run our FX loop too low. Most of the stuff i've tried works but somehow chokes the tone.. but I guess it's all in how loud you can turn it up!

Either way it's always a good idea to have the best and least amount of cables you can. Good luck!

If you can find something you *really* like let me know because I honestly haven't settled on anything.

 

[Findthetone]

Thanks for the tips guys. I'll keep working with it. I think the idea of a speaker mis-match might be a valid point. I know Boogies tend to favor V30s or EVs. I may have to throw my V30s back into my Bogner cab and try but I've not seemed to like them in the past 5 years or so.

And to Bruno Petrucci, I don't now or never have claimed to be a guru and my ego certainly has nothing to do with it. If it did, I doubt I would have asked a question anyway. But when you preface a few paragraphs of advice with a sentence that has a certain air of condescension to it, I really doubt the rest of it is going to get read. Just my advice to you. That being said, I'm not trying to pick wars and certainly appreciate your help.

 

[MBJunkie]

Welcome Back Findthetone!

Is this your first experience with a Mark Series amp? If so, I can tell you flat out that you will NOT be able to achieve the "Rectifier High Gain" sound out of the MkV or any other Mark Series amp IMO.

However, I do encourage you to explore the excellent sounds offered in the MkV as many other posters have mentioned. I have owned my MkV for about 2 years now and have been playing it regularly as my primary amp upon ownership. Previously, I played through my MkIV which I purchased in 1995 and still own it to this day, but overall, I much prefer my MkV.

My main suggestions are to start off by plugging directly into the amp without any effects up front or in the loop, and to initially disengage the GEQ/Preset knob circuitry to get a feel for how all of the modes sound unadulterated. The gain/tone/channel volume/master volume settings make a big difference....so just experiment.

Once you are able to achieve a good sound foundation.....start experimenting with the GEQ/Preset knob EQ option, but do realize that this feature can greatly enhance or ruin your sound because it offers incredible tone shaping changes to your sound.

Best of luck, and I hope you are able to achieve the tones you are after.

 

[Bruno Petrucci]

Ok, Findthetone!

I'm on the the same spirits too.

Peace

 

[dmcguitar]

Did you post your settings?

and what caba are you using, i saw you mention a bogner, and putting a v30 back in it. I don't think it'll add gain, but it will change the tone. i prefer v30's to the c90, but i have a both in 2 cabs and it makes a nice combination.

 

[rabies]

i ran my M5 thru the gflex 212 (spkrs based on V30s) and the g major in the loop and it sounded great cranked with the petrucci settings. I really like the fat clean and the IIC+ modes.

very tight amp, ready for anything, and I'm dying to hear it with a 7 string.

i'd take a marshall over a boogie for blues though.... although the stiletto is ok for blues.

 

[rabies]

that being said, i'm still not sold on ch 2. it's better than a IV but even with EL34's I can't cop marshall tones really.

the amp is somewhat sterile to my ears.

 

[eudaimonia02912]

Try EL34s and see if it cures your woes.

 

[rabies]

that being said, i'm still not sold on ch 2. it's better than a IV but even with EL34's I can't cop marshall tones really.

the amp is somewhat sterile to my ears.

i just ran ch 2 crunch 10 watts with gain and treble max'd out. sounded pretty **** good and marshally to my ears with my LP. efx loop in the mix and w/o EQ engaged.

the clean on this amp is amazing, better than any other amp i've owned. i recommend starting with the petrucci settings on all 3 channels and tweeking from there.

but even with the spongy and recto tube in 10 watts, the amp is still very tight. even my stiletto seems looser.

 

[udertyrat]

I've had my Mark V for about 8 months now and I can definitely relate to what you are saying. The only advice I can offer is to spend as much time with the amp as you can. Try some EL34s in it. Try disengaging the efx loop, etc. Try triode mode. Try it at home alone and with a band. Do everything you can before your wait period runs out. If you don't like it, take it back. The bottom line is that you have to be happy with the amp. It is a lot of money to spend on an amp that you aren't happy with.

My experience with Boogies (I have a DC-5 and used to have a V-Twin rackmount and 20/20 power amp) is that they are so tweakable that you can make it sound amazing or awful and flat depending on how you set them. I'm sure you are aware of that based on your original post.

It took me some time to get the amp where I really liked it, but, initially, I thought my FX loop was messed up and I read the manual... boy I was freaking out. I "put the amp down" for a while and after I came back to it I disengaged the loop (after switching preamp tubes one at a time to find the "problem" I had) and realized that I had the fx loop maxed out. I set it to 12:00 and then I was fine. Afterward I just kind of "got it" and realized how much I like the amp without the FX loop, etc. engaged. That's what works for me.

My point is that we have a similar situation in the sense that I tried the amp in the store and read the manual but was not blown away with the amp (at least that's my impression of what you are saying) after exploring it at home. I thought that channel 3 would be much louder, etc. than the channel 2 crunch mode. It's not my experience, but I liked the amp enough to keep it. Maybe you will like it after all, but if you don't, take it back. I always tell people that the best amp/guitar out there is "the one you like" so if you're not happy with it...

I needed more than 30 days to like my Mark V and still use my DC-5, and my Twin, and my Budda, but not as much anymore. Maybe it will grow on you. It's lighter than my other amps and I really like the clean sound. That was the deciding factor for me. I wanted 3 channels and had to like the clean sound as much as my Twin, and I do.

Hope this helps.