My endall mesa decision

[orionz06]

Ok, so i have been playing some mesas and listening to them as much as possible the past few months and have this conclusion...


the mesa sound is for me, it is the sound i seek for the music i want to play...

the roadster has been the best sounding amp thus far, its channel 4 was the heavy crunch i was looking for, not the tightest, but pretty damned tight for me, and i think this is the way to go...

the kicker, do i want a mark4 (or 5 if ever?), as they are tighter according to what i read, and it always seems that people on this forum are never happy unless they have a mark...

i like the ability for an amp to do metal (my passion), but also punk and classic rock (what i grew up with)... the marks i hear have a different sound, but im not gathering the great difference as much as i think i should... i can tell they sound different, but it seems like a similar sound still, am i going crazy?

what should i buy? (first, as i will inevitably have both)

 

[Elpelotero]

You're not going crazy...Mesas will always sound like a Mesa, just like Marshalls all have their own sound no matter which model you pick up. They all have a dark nature with good bass response.

The differences are pretty much what you described. The Marks, particularly the IV, is a LOT tighter that the Rectifier. The cleans are also great and Fender-like (though the Roadking/ster rectos are awesome as well).

What appeals to most people is the "cleanliness" of the Mark design. What I mean by this is a lack of fizz on the top and on the gain. As a result of the reduced bass and no fizz, you get a much "clearer" sounding tone. All the notes are faithfully reproduced.

In addition, the lead sounds on a Mark are very creamy, full bodided, and liquidy. You also have the R2 channel, but this is a minor thing and should not be your deciding factor. The rectos have raw and vintage channels to cover that ground about equally.

With a Recto you have to fight the amp and get pedals to reproduce this tightness and the creamy lead voicing. This is why you've gained the perception "that people on this forum are never happy unless they have a mark." Many start with a Recto and end with a IV. It's more a sign of the change in music than anything else. 5 years ago everyone had rectos and little IV's.

So, you're at a crossroads....you like the heinous crunch of the rectifier, but seek something tighter and the ability to do classic rock and punk. You can do this with either amp. Just depends how you want to get there. Metal bands with a Mark4 include Lamb of God, Chevelle, and Myles of Alter Bridge. Metallica was also made famous on their Mark2C+, of which the IV is a descendant.

 

[Machine Gun]

Not too much to add to that! Great post Elpelotero. My sentiments exactly!

Good luck on your amp quest orionz06. Hope you find what you're looking for. Hopefully both amps if you can swing it. That's basically where I ended up. Although my favorite is the Mark IV for the reasons Elpelotero described.

 

[orionz06]

now to make it worse... lets pretend that the wife will only let me buy new for warranty purposes... that leaves me the roadster... what does one do to it to make it more mark like?

 

[Elpelotero]

od808 pedals and graphic eq

But you can buy a IV with a transferrable warranty

 

[JF Omalycat]

You're not going crazy...Mesas will always sound like a Mesa, just like Marshalls all have their own sound no matter which model you pick up. They all have a dark nature with good bass response.

The differences are pretty much what you described. The Marks, particularly the IV, is a LOT tighter that the Rectifier. The cleans are also great and Fender-like (though the Roadking/ster rectos are awesome as well).

What appeals to most people is the "cleanliness" of the Mark design. What I mean by this is a lack of fizz on the top and on the gain. As a result of the reduced bass and no fizz, you get a much "clearer" sounding tone. All the notes are faithfully reproduced.

In addition, the lead sounds on a Mark are very creamy, full bodided, and liquidy. You also have the R2 channel, but this is a minor thing and should not be your deciding factor. The rectos have raw and vintage channels to cover that ground about equally.

With a Recto you have to fight the amp and get pedals to reproduce this tightness and the creamy lead voicing. This is why you've gained the perception "that people on this forum are never happy unless they have a mark." Many start with a Recto and end with a IV. It's more a sign of the change in music than anything else. 5 years ago everyone had rectos and little IV's.

So, you're at a crossroads....you like the heinous crunch of the rectifier, but seek something tighter and the ability to do classic rock and punk. You can do this with either amp. Just depends how you want to get there. Metal bands with a Mark4 include Lamb of God, Chevelle, and Myles of Alter Bridge. Metallica was also made famous on their Mark2C+, of which the IV is a descendant.

Couldn't have said it any better. Count me in the Recto crowd who loves them but is already thinking about a Mark IV for all the reasons stated above.

 

[JOEY B.]

now to make it worse... lets pretend that the wife will only let me buy new for warranty purposes... that leaves me the roadster... what does one do to it to make it more mark like?

Wait about 2 months and you can buy a new Mark series Boogie.

 

[Barry]

now to make it worse... lets pretend that the wife will only let me buy new for warranty purposes... that leaves me the roadster... what does one do to it to make it more mark like?

Wait about 2 months and you can buy a new Mark series Boogie.

Thats right

 

[orionz06]

is it true then, mk5 in jan 2009?

 

[Loser No. 27]

One suggestion I can make if you're worried about the lack of tightness in the Roadster would be to swap out the 6L6s for EL34s. It doesn't change the overall character of the amp drastically (don't worry, it won't turn it into a Marshall!), but it really helps to tame the boomy or loose low end a lot of people find present with the Roadster's 3d and 4th channels and replaces it with much tighter low mids. You do sacrifice a bit of clean sparkle on channel 1 and 2 though (although the Brit mode obviously sounds a lot better with the EL34s).

I play the same genres of music you suggested, and I found the switch to the EL34s to be exactly what was needed to get that tight low end response I just couldn't EQ with the 6L6 tubes. Unfortunately, your dealer isn't likely to let you try this out with their floor model before you buy!

Check out this thread of Roaster owners running EL34s for a few others experience:

http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?p=217526

 

[orionz06]

One suggestion I can make if you're worried about the lack of tightness in the Roadster would be to swap out the 6L6s for EL34s. It doesn't change the overall character of the amp drastically (don't worry, it won't turn it into a Marshall!), but it really helps to tame the boomy or loose low end a lot of people find present with the Roadster's 3d and 4th channels and replaces it with much tighter low mids. You do sacrifice a bit of clean sparkle on channel 1 and 2 though (although the Brit mode obviously sounds a lot better with the EL34s).

I play the same genres of music you suggested, and I found the switch to the EL34s to be exactly what was needed to get that tight low end response I just couldn't EQ with the 6L6 tubes. Unfortunately, your dealer isn't likely to let you try this out with their floor model before you buy!

Check out this thread of Roaster owners running EL34s for a few others experience:

http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?p=217526

good read...

now, allow me to list some artists, and lemme see how you feel the roadster fits (compared to a mark 4)

Metallica, Queen, Tool, Judas Priest, SRV, Rush, Fuel, Skynyrd, Iced Earth (jon schaffers tone is my grail), and Kenny Wayne Sheppard... there are many more, but those are the off-the-top-of my head list...

i listened to some clips of the EL34, and it sounds like the roadster will get me the tightness i desire, while offering 3 other channels for a rock, pushed blues-clean, and a clean...

 

[jdurso]

also if you want the EL34 tightness and aggression with the 6l6 cleans and girth, try some KT77s. They're more or less a el34/6l6 and sound amazing, especially on channel 2 Brit. With an OD infront the leads just sing.

 

[jdurso]

Metallica, Queen, Tool, Judas Priest, SRV, Rush, Fuel, Skynyrd, Iced Earth (jon schaffers tone is my grail), and Kenny Wayne Sheppard... there are many more, but those are the off-the-top-of my head list...

i listened to some clips of the EL34, and it sounds like the roadster will get me the tightness i desire, while offering 3 other channels for a rock, pushed blues-clean, and a clean...

Metallica check
Tool check
Priest check
SRV maybe with the right OD
Rush maybe
Fuel check
Skynyrd maybe
Iced Earth maybe
KWS check

Look into the KT77s instead of the EL34s... they're awesome

 

[thirstypirate]

If you have any doubt about the Roadster being the right amp then wait just a little while for the Mark V. Actually, get it on day 1 and then tell us all about it.

Seriously, the Rectifier amps are so low focused. I like an amp to be balanced across the freqs a little more.

Get an LSC!!!

 

[clutch71]

I usually do not disagree with JD but here's my .02....

Metallica = Early Stuff Marshall, Later stuff Rectifer and Mark Series
Tool = First 2 albums Marshall, Aenima Marshall and Rectifier blended, Lateralus forward Diezel
Priest = Marshall
SRV = Marshall and Fender
Rush = Not sure but on old stuff but Alex no plays H&Kmaybe
Fuel = Don't know
Skynyrd = Old pictures I've seen Fender and Peavey
Iced Earth = Don't know
KWS check = Don't know

IMO The Roadster would do but I think the Mark IV is more of the way to go for what your describing. Not that I think the Mark is more Marshall like, I just feel it has a tighter overall tone suitable for what you've described. Tool with a Mark may not work. Never tried it so I don't know.

Good luck

 

[orionz06]

i think i might wait until the new mark comes out... until then, i will be lusting for a roadster...

 

[lerxst88]

at least for rush, lifeson played a rented 50watt marshall halfstack on the first two albums i think. later he played his own marshalls. i think starting with permanent waves he was playing Hiwatts. in the 80s i think he was playing a dean markley amp or something like that. in the 90's back to marshall and currently he has 4 H&K tri-amps

also I dont think SRV used a marshall but i could be mistaken

 

[Loser No. 27]

Jon Schaffers uses Larry amps I believe, check out the website below. I have no idea where you'd get one, I know of only one person in Canada who has one and I understand there's only a handful of them in the US. Just by looking at the workmanship of the inner guts, I suspect one might cost as much as a Mark series and a Roadster combined. On the plus side, you could remove the casing and it would double as a piece of fine art.

http://www.larry-amplification.de/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=16&Itemid=31

 

[EleventhHour2139]

Jon Schaffers uses Larry amps I believe, check out the website below. I have no idea where you'd get one, I know of only one person in Canada who has one and I understand there's only a handful of them in the US. Just by looking at the workmanship of the inner guts, I suspect one might cost as much as a Mark series and a Roadster combined. On the plus side, you could remove the casing and it would double as a piece of fine art.

http://www.larry-amplification.de/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=16&Itemid=31

You have to order them from him, and he doesn't do very many at all. I read somewhere that they're up around the $5k-$6k range :shock:

 

[orionz06]

thanks for all the advice guys, i have basically concluded that i want the roadster, an OD, and perhaps a tube swap. I also conclude that i want a markiv or a markv. I also conclude what i knew to begin with, i want a vh4...