muddy tone - pre amp tube changing?

[Shoragoth]

1- hey guys! I am new to these preamp tube changing! and I having difficulties with muddy - undefined tone of 2011 dual rectifier.. I heard a lot on Tungsram ECC83 and Haltron 12AX7 labels ..do you think does it worth to replace stock ones with them? doing this will make sense?.. I am a way far from legendary RECTO tone on high volumes..

2- May be I am doing something wrong..how you do you set your master volume - and channel volume??.. ex(my live set): Master @ 12 - channel 3 volume @ 10

-----
gear:
2011 3ch dual rectifier
1960B cab
maxon od808
esp horizon fr2

 

[Nomad100]

Maybe one of your tubes is shot? (or something else is wrong).

I currently own two "Multiwatt" Dual Rectifiers. They are the tightest, brightest of all the rectos I've played. Muddy, undefined tone is not what the newer Recto's sound like. (It's the main reason why I only own the newer model).

Just for the heck of it, set your amp using these settings:
Channel 2, Bold, Diode rectifier, 100 watt, Modern setting.
Tone controls all at 5, gain control around 6, master volume/output at a reasonable level. If needed, tweak the presence control a little either way.

How does it sound?

 

[UnderJollyRoger]

Also, never forget to check your other stuff, guitar, cables and so on ... doublecheck with other stuff ...

 

[YellowJacket]

The problem might be the 1960b cab. Try a Mesa 4 x 12 instead!

 

[Shoragoth]

mine is multi watt too...
I will try the settings and let you know.. but there is no problem when I play on low volume.. please give numbers "clock" wise..

I am using 3ch for rithmm set to modern/ diode/bold/ 100W.

presesence - 9
channel volume - 10
gain - 2
bass - 10
mid - 11
treb 12

output volume 9 (saturated tone. well defined) ..
output volume 12 at live performance (muddy - weak .. not the recto`s powerfull tone)...

 

[Shoragoth]

The problem might be the 1960b cab. Try a Mesa 4 x 12 instead!

yea.. yea first I was thought that might be problem... g12t75W ..300W cab might be too loud.. compared mesa-V30 cab 240W...
that might make have bumpy - muddy.. specially on the leads..



Any of you! did you change your recto`s stock pre amp tube! with any of other brand!!?

 

[YellowJacket]

Sorry to be pedantic, but the mesa cab is actually twice as loud with much more focused mids. The Marshall cab can HANDLE more power but the Mesa cab has more efficient speakers.

Also consider the pickups in your guitar. Bare Knuckle pickups tend to work really well with Mesa amps because they are so clear sounding.

 

[Jackie]

The 1960B is a good cab, just not the best to pair with a Recto. The mids are dipped a little with the T-75s in that cab, and the Recto's mids live in a different area of the freq. spectrum than the Marshalls it was designed for so there might be a part of the midrange that's "missing".

 

[Shoragoth]

I did test the amp with engl v30 speakers.. result was I need to scoop treb!.. like 9-10 oclock!. mids like 11-12 ! sounded wicked!.. but wasnt had to chance to test it loud!...


any suggestion on " why works good on low volume? and fail on high"

didnt you guys even change your pre amp tube before?!)

 

[YellowJacket]

Gotta try it with a Mesa cab. The Mesa v30s are made to a different spec than ENGL v30s or Marshall v30s. I think each amp manufacturer gives Celestion their christmas wish list!! In my experience, mesa 4 x 12s sound better the louder they get cranked. It caused me so much trouble with soundmen that I eventually got rid of my 4 x 12. I'm a 2 x 12 / 1 x 12 guy now!

I have stock tubes in both my Mesa heads. The most productive mod ever was putting Bare Knuckle PIckups in my axe and replacing the pots and caps.

 

[Shoragoth]

any of you would let me know? levels of master volume and channel volume? for optimum sound for live performance and for recording?

 

[UnderJollyRoger]

any of you would let me know? levels of master volume and channel volume? for optimum sound for live performance and for recording?

When it sounds best for your ears, really ... and no, that probably won't be at-home-volume-level )
Really, you should hear the difference when the amp starts to come alive. When bypassing the Loop (and so the master volume), for me, that's about channel volume 10:00 ...

 

[Jackie]

TungSol 12AX7s have good clarity and take care of any fizz trouble. Just don't put them in the cathode follower position, they will probably die quickly (I had a TungSol in my Marshall for less then a month before it died).

side note @YellowJacket - actually I think Mesa and Marshall are the only two companies that custom order V30s. Don't know for sure, just a hunch. I'm not able to dig around where I'm at right now. I have the "stock" V30s in my Marshall 1960A cab and they sound great with a Mesa.

 

[Doug_Les]

I have a single rec that I bought used and had a muddy, not very distorted sound on the "modern" setting. I bought a new set of preamp tubes from Dougstubes and it is like a new amp, 100% better !!!

 

[sk8erps]

Which tubes are you using and in which positions? I have a Solo 50 I'm trying to get a little better sounding. What power tubes are you using?

I have a single rec that I bought used and had a muddy, not very distorted sound on the "modern" setting. I bought a new set of preamp tubes from Dougstubes and it is like a new amp, 100% better !!!

 

[Doug_Les]

V1 - Tung 12AX7 (High Gain)
V2 - JJ ECC83 (High Gain)
V3 - Penta 12AX7 (High Gain)
V4 - Penta 12AX7 (High Gain)
V5 - Sovtek 12AX7 LPS (High Gain)
I bought them from DougsTubes, its his "metal" preamp set of tubes, Im using Mesa el34 power tubes rite now but I have a set of jj6l6 I may go back to, I switched to the 34's when I was unhappy with the sound, before I got the new preamp tubes.

Which tubes are you using and in which positions? I have a Solo 50 I'm trying to get a little better sounding. What power tubes are you using?

I have a single rec that I bought used and had a muddy, not very distorted sound on the "modern" setting. I bought a new set of preamp tubes from Dougstubes and it is like a new amp, 100% better !!!

 

[sk8erps]

Cool, thanks man. I was looking at that same tube set. I think I'll def get it. Which power tunes would you recommend? I play 311 type stuff where I use high gain and clean. I think I want to stick with 6L6's but they have 2 options and I don't know the difference.

 

[cheameup]

Cool, thanks man. I was looking at that same tube set. I think I'll def get it. Which power tunes would you recommend? I play 311 type stuff where I use high gain and clean. I think I want to stick with 6L6's but they have 2 options and I don't know the difference.

just changing the v1 to a tung sol will make a huge difference to clarity. I was a disbeliver but figured for $15 cant hurt to try and was suprised how much difference it made


if you want to keep your clean big and full I'd stay wil 6l6. el34's have some great charisitcs for the high gain stuff but are a little wanting on the green channel if you want your clean sound clean