Modern Altec 417-8 replacement?

[mark1406]

I have a Boogie Celestion speaker is my modified SOB, it sounds okay, but it doesn’t sound like the Eminence speaker in my old Mark 1 amp, thus the amp doesn’t sound the same.

I don’t know if the JBL speakers were that popular in the Mark 1 amps, but the Altec speakers as far as I know have a good reputation.

I have heard a couple of people say that the Jensen Blackbird 100w is a good replacement speaker. What are the findings on this speaker?

Blackbird 100 speaker

The WGS speakers also get a good rap, though I don’t know if it’s this one.

WGS speaker

Has anyone tried these speakers and can report back?

Regards

Mark

 

[bandit2013]

I have tried many and the BlackHawk and Blackbird were two of three Anlico speakers I rant with the Mark V90 combo. The third was the Celestion Creme 90W Alnico speaker.

The WGS BlackHawk HP100 did not last very long. I somehow overheated the voice coil and after the bell of the magnet driver was heat soaked, it never sounded good after that. Did not get much time on it but may have made some notes about it in the Mark V forums. Been a long time. Overall, it was ok. Sounded good. Nice clean voice but like most Alnico speakers, it did some weird stuff during the break in.

The Jensen Jet Blackbird 100, well that is a different story. Never caused any damage to it but did take a few months to break it in before any high gain could be pushed into it. I still have it.
Clean: it is the best sounding speaker I ever heard when using a 6L6GC based amp. Under distortion, it will take some time running the speaker on the clean channel before you can get a good response, otherwise it makes some wonky sounds. This speaker sounds great with the Triple Crown TC-50. Even though the speaker is not specifically tuned for the Brit thing, it really sounded great. Note that the Blackbird will darken the tone considerably due to the stiffness of the spider. Takes some patience and time using it to break it in. The brightness will bloom eventually and will be one great sounding speaker. Mesa equipped the California Tweed with the same speaker. Mine has the 100W voice coils (combo and extension cab) as this was purchased before Mesa started using the 40W version.

You may need to remove the bell cover on the Blackbird from the driver as it is rather large and may not fit in the combo. It was a tight fit in the Mark V90 Combo but did not need to remove the bell to get it together. Getting the power tubes out was not easy. With the Bell removed, all was much better.

 

[mark1406]

I have tried many and the BlackHawk and Blackbird were two of three Anlico speakers I rant with the Mark V90 combo. The third was the Celestion Creme 90W Alnico speaker.

The WGS BlackHawk HP100 did not last very long. I somehow overheated the voice coil and after the bell of the magnet driver was heat soaked, it never sounded good after that. Did not get much time on it but may have made some notes about it in the Mark V forums. Been a long time. Overall, it was ok. Sounded good. Nice clean voice but like most Alnico speakers, it did some weird stuff during the break in.

The Jensen Jet Blackbird 100, well that is a different story. Never caused any damage to it but did take a few months to break it in before any high gain could be pushed into it. I still have it.
Clean: it is the best sounding speaker I ever heard when using a 6L6GC based amp. Under distortion, it will take some time running the speaker on the clean channel before you can get a good response, otherwise it makes some wonky sounds. This speaker sounds great with the Triple Crown TC-50. Even though the speaker is not specifically tuned for the Brit thing, it really sounded great. Note that the Blackbird will darken the tone considerably due to the stiffness of the spider. Takes some patience and time using it to break it in. The brightness will bloom eventually and will be one great sounding speaker. Mesa equipped the California Tweed with the same speaker. Mine has the 100W voice coils (combo and extension cab) as this was purchased before Mesa started using the 40W version.

You may need to remove the bell cover on the Blackbird from the driver as it is rather large and may not fit in the combo. It was a tight fit in the Mark V90 Combo but did not need to remove the bell to get it together. Getting the power tubes out was not easy. With the Bell removed, all was much better.

Thanks for telling me if your experience with these speakers.

Regards

Mark

 

[bandit2013]

I was trying out the Blackbird in a widebody open back 112 cab. Could not get the rear panel on unless I removed the bell cover. I did this so I could run a pair of Blackbirds with the California tweed. Shortly thereafter I bought the matching cab. This image I was running the TC-50 with the blackbird. That was a huge improvement. I could not get the back panel on unless I removed the bell cover.

Mesa opted to have the Speaker made without the bell cover. Instead the label is place on the magnet. Much darker toned speaker for sure. If your amp is bottom heavy it may be too much low end. Here is the backside of the Cali Tweed and its matching cabinet. Both are Blackbird 100W speakers. These are stock parts when I got the Cali tweed. Mesa changed it to the 40W version that looks nothing like this.

 

[mark1406]

I was trying out the Blackbird in a widebody open back 112 cab. Could not get the rear panel on unless I removed the bell cover. I did this so I could run a pair of Blackbirds with the California tweed. Shortly thereafter I bought the matching cab. This image I was running the TC-50 with the blackbird. That was a huge improvement. I could not get the back panel on unless I removed the bell cover.

View attachment 1551

Mesa opted to have the Speaker made without the bell cover. Instead the label is place on the magnet. Much darker toned speaker for sure. If your amp is bottom heavy it may be too much low end. Here is the backside of the Cali Tweed and its matching cabinet. Both are Blackbird 100W speakers. These are stock parts when I got the Cali tweed. Mesa changed it to the 40W version that looks nothing like this.
View attachment 1552

Thanks for your feedback. I’m wondering if it would be a good fit as an Altec speaker isn’t available anymore.

Regards

Mark

 

[rjg]

I have a Boogie Celestion speaker is my modified SOB, it sounds okay, but it doesn’t sound like the Eminence speaker in my old Mark 1 amp, thus the amp doesn’t sound the same.

I don’t know if the JBL speakers were that popular in the Mark 1 amps, but the Altec speakers as far as I know have a good reputation.

I have heard a couple of people say that the Jensen Blackbird 100w is a good replacement speaker. What are the findings on this speaker?

Blackbird 100 speaker

The WGS speakers also get a good rap, though I don’t know if it’s this one.

WGS speaker

Has anyone tried these speakers and can report back?

Regards

Mark

 

[bandit2013]

That is very difficult to say. Not sure how the Altec speaker would compare as I never had any experience with it. I only responded because you mentioned the Blackbird and Black Hawk. That is about as far as I can go with it.

 

[rjg]

I have always like the Altec 417 8H speakers and regret selling the one I had. Anyway, you can get a brand new one from Great Plains Audio – The home of vintage Altec Lansing loudspeakers
but they are very expensive. This company is owned and operated by former employees of Altec. You can read about this company and Altec on the website.

 

[585960]

Pro recone with correct parts... was expensive as F@#$ so it ain't cheap!!! $399 + ship.

 

[Rbh]

If you have some technical skills - You can re-cone that yourself. I've done 4 - 5 re-cones and it's pretty basic. You need to work clean. Re-cone kits for that are less than 100.00.

 

[mark1406]

If you have some technical skills - You can re-cone that yourself. I've done 4 - 5 re-cones and it's pretty basic. You need to work clean. Re-cone kits for that are less than 100.00.

I imagine alignment of the cone is critical, how do you ensure the cone isn’t rubbing?

Regards

Mark

 

[mark1406]

I have always like the Altec 417 8H speakers and regret selling the one I had. Anyway, you can get a brand new one from Great Plains Audio – The home of vintage Altec Lansing loudspeakers
but they are very expensive. This company is owned and operated by former employees of Altec. You can read about this company and Altec on the website.

I’m contacted Great Plains Audio and they don’t make a 417-8 speaker.

Regards

Mark

 

[Rbh]

I imagine alignment of the cone is critical, how do you ensure the cone isn’t rubbing?

Regards

Mark

You can make or most kits come with centering shims. It is the critical fit when re-coning. Cleaning the voice coil gap is also critical. Have you checked that the existing voice coil is rubbing? - or that the existing voice coil is blown - or open.

 

[mark1406]

You can make or most kits come with centering shims. It is the critical fit when re-coning. Cleaning the voice coil gap is also critical. Have you checked that the existing voice coil is rubbing? - or that the existing voice coil is blown - or open.

I don’t have a blown speaker, but this was the first obstacle I could imagine to doing a proper job. Being as curious as I am, I had to ask the question.

Regards

Mark

 

[bsriaudio]

Altec 417s are somewhat readily available on Reverb and its easiest to lay hands on a single speaker. I have a pair of them in an oversized 2x12 and they are a much better speaker for guitar than the other "hifi" speaker for Mesas - the EVM12L, which IMO gets a bit strident in a Mark series amp and doesn't have the low end extension people usually expect from a guitar speaker. Which is probably why the cab designed for them is ported.

Any of the non-Celestion options are going to be a pretty dramatic change - especially if you're going for one of the wider bandwidth speakers. An Altec 417 plays up to 8K which is much more treble extension than the Celestion.

 

[mark1406]

I would like to have heard an Altec in a Mark 1 amp.

Regards

Mark

 

[DavidMenke]

I would like to have heard an Altec in a Mark 1 amp.

Regards

Mark

Mark the Altec does fit without modification.

 

[mark1406]

Mark the Altec does fit without modification.

Thanks for taking time to show me the pictures of the fitted speaker.

Regards

Mark