MkIIB or MkIII for an old guy?

[Raoul Duke]

So after playing for 40 years through Marshalls, Fenders, and some booteek types, I’ve recently been enticed to try Boogie. I like the fact that they’ve been around for a while, but still have the “small team” company culture with many of the key players from when they started - and they still service their older models. Admirable and rare in this day and age!

So I have the opportunity to either go with a later MkIIb (unmodified, GEQ, reverb 60w) or purple MkIII (GEQ, simul) and I’m torn. I play mostly 70s-80s rock and use clean and overdrive equally. My current “go to” amp is a Matchless C30, but I want to add a Boogie into my rig.

Any advice from the Boogie faithful would be very much appreciated!

Thanks!

 

[Eevil]

Hi.

I’d personally go the Mark III route head and cab route mind you. I struggled many years with Mark III combo tones and they always felt pointy and meatless (tried with EV/C90 speakers) until later in my GAS path I landed on Roadster head and 4x12 cab - and suddenly also the Mark III made some sense

Nowadays I have the studio preamp (close to Mark IIC/III pre) with diezel power amp and it’s my “Mark IIC/III” machine :lol: yet there’s “one great tone at a time” issue with any of the aforementioned amps but if you’re okay with that then go for it - can’t go wrong with either choice

 

[CoG]

Mark III purple is a really good choice. I've had a number of Mark IIIs and the purple is the one I want back. Mark IIIs are terrific rock amps and can get you almost any 70s or 80s tones that didn't come out of a Hiwatt. They're a thrill to play, tons of gain and saturation on tap if you want it. Less forgiving than a JCM800 but probably a lot more so than that Matchless. You can make any guitar sound good through it once you figure out the GEQ (the tone stack is just there to shape the gain, your actual "tone" comes from the GEQ. This is why 90 per cent of the Mark IIIs you see are dialed in roughly the same way.)

Mark IIIs also sound great at moderate volumes, you do *not* need to get the output section cooking on a Mark.

Down side of Mark IIIs is that they can be pretty limited for live or jamming. They're picky about speakers and they're one tone at a time, especially if you want to try to get a warm, pushed clean. If the R2 mod is done, that helps. If you remember that for a Mark treble basically equals gain, that will help you do quick adjustments on the fly too

I haven't had a mark IIB so I can't do a direct comparison.

 

[Raoul Duke]

Thanks folks, I appreciate the responses - very informative.

Given the differences between IIB and III, I find it sort of odd that they currently sell for about the same price. That seems to indicate they have 2 separate and distinct identities. Hoping to hear from some IIB owners as well.

Thanks again and keep the info coming!

 

[Markedman]

I have owned both at the same time.

You are right in thinking that they are different beasts. In car terms it would be, Lamborghini verses Rolls Royce. Both are great great, not just good at what they do, they just do different things. I do not have to tell you which amp is which car, you get the idea and more than likely knew something about Boogie amps and how they are capable of many tones, good and bad, until you read the owner's manual. Most bad tone from a Boogie amp comes from user error by not reading the manual!

I'd buy both. One is a hot-rodded Marshall killer, the other is pure Fenderish heavenly bliss that can be boosted into Grailtone when needed.



IMG_2122 by John Bazzano, on Flickr

Jackson/dimebucker-Mk.III-4X12EV's by John Bazzano, on Flickr

 

[Raoul Duke]

Great analogy! Really puts it in perspective.

My fear (knowing how I get about gear) is that I’m on the precipice of a giant rabbit hole - and your suggestion “buy both” will eventually happen (and them some). Thanks for the pics as well! Always been a “form follows function” type who preferred utilitarian aesthetics, but those woodies really are beautiful. Might have to re-think my approach there.

Keep it coming folks! Very much appreciated!

 

[CoG]

Jackson/dimebucker-Mk.III-4X12EV's by John Bazzano, on Flickr

Mark III and a USA Jackson, that's what I'm talkin' about!

 

[GJgo]

I have both, they are different. To me the IIB is a classic rock to early 80s metal monster. The III is a late 80s & 90s metal and thrash machine.

The 60W unit is pentode and super fast. The Simul unit is smoother due to the Class A pair being wired in triode.

I did this tone comparo a couple weeks ago. Keep in mind my IIB is loop modded which juices it up.

https://youtu.be/OW7Yz1FaVQE

 

[Raoul Duke]

Thanks for the info and great demos! I watched them all and learned a lot about the subtleties that separate the II and III.
The IIB can certainly do the Metallica sounds for sure.

You aren’t by chance an artillery dude, are you?

 

[GreyHills]

So after playing for 40 years through Marshalls, Fenders, and some booteek types, I’ve recently been enticed to try Boogie. I like the fact that they’ve been around for a while, but still have the “small team” company culture with many of the key players from when they started - and they still service their older models. Admirable and rare in this day and age!

So I have the opportunity to either go with a later MkIIb (unmodified, GEQ, reverb 60w) or purple MkIII (GEQ, simul) and I’m torn. I play mostly 70s-80s rock and use clean and overdrive equally. My current “go to” amp is a Matchless C30, but I want to add a Boogie into my rig.

Any advice from the Boogie faithful would be very much appreciated!

Thanks!

Hi, I struggled with the same amp choice back in February. I had a guy offering me his Red Stripe Mark III for a trade.... But I was also eyeing a IIB at the time. I already own a simul iic+, so the red stripe III seemed slightly redundant, and I opted for the IIB. Picked up a nice clean IIB and sent it to Mesa Boogie for cap servicing in March. Got it back in April.

The IIB (rp-8c preamp) has a beautiful clean. Really beautiful. I traded my blonde 1964 Fender Tremolux for it, and I preferred the clean of the IIB. It's got a nice loose overdrive when you switch to that channel that's great for 70s rock and EARLY 80s metal as someone said. It obviously won't get as gainy and compressed on the drive channel as my C+, and in turn a III. So I would say if you value a beautiful clean, and a great 70s early 80s rock tone, the IIB is great. If you want a more driving gain, the III. I run my IIB in dual Mono with the IIC+ and I love it.

BTW, since you use a C30, I also run 2 BadCats, one thing you'll notice comparing that style circuit with a Mesa is that the Mesa is going to sound way more focused. The C30 probably fills the room with great low end and voxey mids, but when you switch over to the Mesa it will sound like everything gets siphoned into a more beamy sound. Something to be aware of.

 

[Raoul Duke]

All great info, thanks for your reply!

I’ve pulled the trigger on the IIB. It’s an early’82, unmodified 60w with reverb and GEQ. I plan to send it back to Petaluma for a checkup. Can you tell me more about how that went for you please? Did you talk to Mike B, did you get any other mods, do you notice any unexpected improvements, etc? Any advice about that?

Thanks again!

 

[GJgo]

If you don't want any mods you just deal with Rich and pay Mesa. If you want it loop modded you will pay Mike separately & directly for the mod. It fixes the loop and increases the gain. The clean channel isn't as clean though. I would recommend it unless you really need a pristine clean channel.

I'm a fan of the 60 watters. They are very fast & snarly. They just don't have the big bottom end.

 

[Raoul Duke]

Interesting. You pay Mesa for the tune-up and Mike separately. Thanks for that info.
What did you do with yours, just the loop mod? Do you sacrifice anything more than that tiny bit of clean? I understand that it gives you a “master-master” volume and helps balance the channels, which is definitely something I’m interested in. Is that your experience?

Also, do you feel the cost of the mod is worth it? I hear it’s around $300 or so?

Thanks again!

 

[GJgo]

On the IIB just the loop mod. Like I said the only sacrifice was the pristine cleans. I'm a metal guy so that's OK with me- I don't have a need for anything cleaner than AC/DC tone. Yes it also gives you a post-loop master volume which is nice. I can have the two channels set easily to switch between & sound good.

Realistically Mesa's cost to service & mod things is very reasonable. Plus, I want mine serviced before Mike retires!!

 

[Raoul Duke]

I kind of feel the same way.
It’s like having Neal Moser service your ‘79 Mockingbird. A certain intangible feeling of “full circle”.
Thanks again for sharing your experience!

 

[GreyHills]

All great info, thanks for your reply!

I’ve pulled the trigger on the IIB. It’s an early’82, unmodified 60w with reverb and GEQ. I plan to send it back to Petaluma for a checkup. Can you tell me more about how that went for you please? Did you talk to Mike B, did you get any other mods, do you notice any unexpected improvements, etc? Any advice about that?

Thanks again!

Process is easy. I took it in and had a chat with Rich. He asked if I needed to talk to Mike about anything during the process - I mentioned I would be interesting in hearing about the mod. So at some point when Mike had the amp in front of him he called and went over what would be changed. Long story short, it basically sounded like a way to improve the loop (hence the name) and tighten up the and make it gainer, pulling it closer to iic+ levels (but not quite getting there). I told him which way I preferred - which was to keep it unmodified - and he went on doing a GREAT servicing. Much more in depth than a local shop probably would have done. Noise level came down because he worked up the reverb tank and the little torroid band coils on the EQ sliders, plus all the electrolytics being replaced.

 

[Raoul Duke]

Thanks for the insight regarding your experience with ‘Cats and Boogies, something I’ll definitely look out for. The fact that you prefer IIB cleans to a vintage Tremo certainly speaks volumes and really has me looking forward to hearing them.

Sound like the Mesa techs sort of guide you through the whole process. That’s great as well. Really looking forward to discovering these amps. Mesas just haven’t been that prominent in my local area and I guess I type-cast them as “Metal only”. The more I learn about them - the more I see I’ve been missing out.

Thanks again everyone! I very much appreciate you all helping me out!

 

[6L6-wreck]

Jesus played a MK III ...

 

[Raoul Duke]

Ha! Great stuff!
I’m pretty sure a MkIII is in my future as well!