MIXING - Guitar tones

[Daxman73]

I'm heading into the recording foray and am looking for some advice when it comes to recording/mixing guitar tones. I have never truly recorded "my" tone accurately before. I just never could fully replicate it on disk. Another issue I had was getting a fuller sounding mix, a nice wall of guitar mix. Is it better to mix amps/settings, different guitars, or other variables? I know the standard of "less gain is more gain" when getting a heavy tone, but I also want to focus on great sound/tone as well. I also know that different mics get different tones or different frequentcies as well, not sure if we have this option though. So, is it the eq'ing on the consol, blending, etc? I also do realize that tone is subjective.

DISCLAMER: I'm recording in a semi-professional studio with an engineer who does it on the side, so I know I'm not going to get Dream Threater (insert any professional/national act) type recordings. He has actually recorded all of my acoustic albums with great success, and has years of studio time. I just want to record good guitar tone and it accurately represent "my" tone. We usually us a SM57 into Pro Tools. My gear I'm recording with, or have at my disposal, is a Mark V head into a Mesa Standard 4x12, a 2x12 Roadster combo, Les Paul Standard, PRS Custom 22, and 1987 Charvel Model 3a. I also have an array of pedals and effects. The sound I go for is kind of an eclectic blend of John Pertrucci, Joe Satriani, Stevie Ray Vaughn, Ross Childress and ranging in styles of punk, metal, rock and blues. Did I say eclectic? Maybe I meant all over the map, lol. Any help would be appreciated.

 

[gonzo]

it just takes time.

time.


meaning, in the studio, spend plenty of time, moving mics.

re-positioning.

trying every angle, every location, close to mid to distant micing, and somewhere in all of that, is the tone you want to capture.

too many times, i've seen guitarists go into a room and mic up their amp, and on playback say 'that's not what it sounds like'.

what is happening, is that the microphone is right against the speaker, NOT out in the room hearing the 3-D effect that your stereo ears are hearing...
picking up the room, the low end of the cabinet, the reflections, all that.

a single mic (SM57) close on the cone of the speaker, is only going to hear a small fraction of the overall sound.

proximity effect is very important with close micing.
if you want more low end, and less high end, you move the mic off the center of the cone, and closer to the edge of the cone....
and, you also rotate slightly off-axis, the microphone, as this radically changes the EQ of what the mic is picking up as well.

it takes TIME, and diligence, to find these tones, but they are there.



next time you are playing your rig, get down on your hands and knees, and start playing with your ear RIGHT WHERE THE MIC WILL BE.

that's what the mic is hearing.
you want to realize that capture, or move the mic somewhere that it sounds more in line with what you want to capture.


once you dial that in, you can start adding in room mics, if you have an excellent room, you can capture all your ambience that way.


i have developed a different approach...
i use a special direct box, that captures the output of the amp, and brings it down to line level, adding a cabinet filter circuit to approximate the sound of a sm57 on either a small or large speaker cabinet.

that sound is always the same (based on the same amp settings) and i can then blend microphone tracks along with that one.

but the art of capturing cabinet sound with live mics, is truly that........ an art.
and you have to put in the requisite time to get the experience to know what you are doing.

a good mixer, should be able to take a pair of guitar tracks, using a combination of close and distant or simply (2) close mic tracks using different mics, and blend them in such a way as to get a nice fat sound, assuming your rig setup sounds good to begin with.

too much layering can diminish your 'power' of your sound.
the more tracks, the smaller things sound.

a typical modern production of electric guitar rhythm parts, will use a single or pair of guitar tracks of one performance, panned hard left.... and a second performance duplicating the 1st pass, hard panned right. this gives a great wide stereo field, and offers good separation. how tight the effect is, is strictly up to the talent of the player.

but there are no rules.

 

[Daxman73]

Thanks a lot for the tips gonzo. I do have some basic knowledge of mic placement theory and room acoustics and I figured those came into play. Your right, I just need time and practice. And patience, lol. Any experience with mixing different amps and guitars to create a bigger sound?

 

[gonzo]

OH SURE.
all that and the above.


i like close sounds, but when i want a big sound, i can either close/distance mic, use the palmer and a room mic, or mix amps.

it's dirt easy, to put two combos back to back, and mic either side of both of them, and blend those together.

a better option, might be to do something like what dean deleo (STP) does, he blends his high gain amp with a cleanish vox AC30, and mixes the clean and distorted tones together.


brian may of queen, used to layer up parts using a dinky little home made amp with a tiny speaker, driven by a treble booster....
the fact that it was such a small 'sound print', allowed him to stack many parts and not diminish the overall sound spectrum.

face it, when you layer more than ONE super-phat guitar part, each time you put another down, you are diminishing the sound of the previous one.

they cannot all occupy the same sonic space at the same time.

that's why mixing guitars and amps, even mics and rooms, adds up to nice tracks.

 

[MesaGod666]

When I mic my V30 4x12 cab I use an array of mics, mic preamps, and compressors.

Mics and mic placement are most important. That's where you get your tone captured. I use an AKG414, Shure SM57, and Sennheiser e906 all placed kind of funky around the cab. The Shure and the Sennheiser give me my tone and the AKG gives me my room contour, but getting my sound is only half of the battle because my tone will never sound exactly the same all the time.

Secondly are preamps. I use a dark sounding UA 2-610 to give me my studio tone, and a Great River MP-2NV for other tones. The preamps are all apart of the signal chain.

The compressors are also apart of the signal chain but they can be added in during post. I usually use a UA1176 and FATSO compressor to add in additional warmth and harmonic qualities.

That's pretty much it. I do very little EQing in post.

 

[Daxman73]

Thanks man. I'm new when it comes to mic preamps, but I definitely need to spend more time with mic placement and just experimenting with different locations. Thanks for the info.