Mesa Single Rec Preamp tube setup

[thesockmonster13]

Just a curious question for my Mesa 'migos - what's a good basic tube arrangement for a Single Rec preamp? I'm just looking for a good starting point, and while my friend @ Dougstubes may be helpful, he suggested the same formula for the Mesa as he did for my old Peavey XXX.

I'm looking for more saturation, less buzz, and more clarity, if that makes any sense. I cover a wide range of music, from classic to modern - Alter Bridge, Circa Survive, Thrice, Between the Buried and Me, and Dream Theater, for example on the modern end.

When I bought the Single Rec, it came with a full Tung-Sol preamp setup and Sovtek 6l6GB's, and it's seriously fizz city. I've been meaning to get around to completely retubing, but all I've done so far is toss in 2 JJ KT77's. I've had good results with those in the past, and thought I'd give them a shot here. I like what I got with them, but it's fizzy and undefined past what any Mesa should be. Basically, it's got no character.

I occasionally boost w/ either a Bad Monkey or a modded TS808 clone, and run my dirt settings on P: 2 B: 11-12:00 M: 11-12:00 T: 12-2:00, depending on the room. All that goes into an Orange 2x12. Pickups, I use an EMG 81/85 combo (until I can get rid of them!) and a standard SD JB/59.

 

[thesockmonster13]

Hey, no insult. I hate them, too. I've had JJ preamps that sounded much better.

After researching, your offering sounds wicked, but a bit out of my league right now as far as cash. Is there a cheaper solution for the time being? Obviously this is just a starting point.

 

[thesockmonster13]

Hey, I appreciate it, guy. I can't stand these Tung-Sols - plan to golf with them. Seriously. I'll probably pop in modern 12ax7's, as NOS are a bit expensive at the moment. But definitely in the works....

 

[thesockmonster13]

*Waits patiently for guru advice*

 

[JimmyB]

If you look on ebay you can find deals like these or similar:

http://xrl.us/omtx5

http://xrl.us/omtyd

http://xrl.us/omtyq

I'm not saying you should buy these exact tubes, or win these auctions. My point is, you can see that it is possible to get NOS tubes for the same price, or slightly more. Sometimes less.

I don't know these people. This is just an example. And I just wanted to be able to show you that NOS tubes don't necessarily have to put a huge hole in your wallet.

Shredd,

The first two links aren't NOS; the tubes are used rather than new. The tubes in the third link might be NOS, based on the boxes that look as though they might be original.

 

[thesockmonster13]

I'm definitely looking into NOS, and will certainly have to do a lot more research before I jump into that world! For the meantime, what's the general view on JJ ECC83s's these days? I know I liked them in my old XXX and JCM800, but apparently they've got a hate following now. I also talked to a couple of NOS guys (www.kcanostubes .com in particular) whose offering was "If you're not liking those Tung-Sols, ditch the amp. They're the best modern tube on the market" which is IMHO complete garbage. I know what I want is in this amp, and it's just going to take time.

What about running a mix of JJ's (Gold pin and regular) and a few EH?

 

[212Mavguy]

Humbly, here is my two cents...

It's not necessary to use NOS vintage tubes, used vintage is much more affordable, and in most cases a preamp tube sounds better after at least a few hundred hours of use. Don't get hung up on the idea that a vintage tube has to be brand new to sound good, that is definitely not the case. They made them to last a lot longer than they do now.

With that said, Shredd definitely knows what he is talking about, few on the board will go to the effort he does to help someone, also have seen great posts again and again from Timbre Wolf and Stokes. Peace.

 

[thesockmonster13]

Not a gamble at all. Shredd, I really do appreciate you taking the time to help out like this. My only real question is....what do I look for when shopping for vintage 12ax7's? Are there particular brands/builds (short/long)/names I should be watching out for?

Like this auction, for example. Would a mix like this have something to offer?

http://cgi.ebay.com/4-MATCHED-VINTAGE-GE-SYLVANIA-RCA-12AX7-ECC83-TUBES_W0QQitemZ350086623495QQihZ022QQcategoryZ50598QQtcZphotoQQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Thanks again!

 

[thesockmonster13]

No, honestly I was waiting for you opinion. He relisted, so I've still got a chance. Can you check the auction out and see if there's anything I need to jump on?

 

[JimmyB]

Mavguy is 100% right. I've bought a lot of REALLY good used tubes, and in a lot of cases they test just barely under NOS, and have some of the label worn off.

Me too! I caught the bug and I've picked up a bunch of used tubes over the last month, most for little more than the price of current production tubes. :mrgreen:

 

[thesockmonster13]

How are current production Mullards? Judging by my style of music, should I go after a RFT or Raytheon? It sounds like a change in V1 and V2 would make the most noticeable difference.

Thanks for all the help - this is my first personal Mesa (non-studio) and my first retube with this guy!

 

[212Mavguy]

Hello thesockmonster13!

Get a quiver of vintage 12ax7's, then if you like you can expand to 5751's and 12at7's. As far as the RFT/Raytheon question, get a small few of each, like 3, and while you're at it, try the Siemens shortplate 12ax7, I have seen some on ebay just once with Mesa labeling on them. Sell what you don't want of your excess after you get the best example(s) of each if you like.

Also have seen short gray plate Sylvania 12ax7's with the mesa label on ebay. Those are very rare, but non mesa labeled ones are great, and if you happen to find Sylvania short blackplate 12ax7's get them, too.
Mesa amps were not always made with Chinese or Russian or Czechoslovakian tubes! Mesa engineering has been around a while, and the tubes available to them when they first started are different from what is available to them now. 8)

For your tone palette it's helpful to get both American and Euro tubes. You will find that you can voice your amp for a particular guitar, speaker cab, music genre that way if you'd like. For instance, the big bottom and bright top of some tubes with excdeptionally high gain like the Sylvania long grayplate 12ax7/ecc83/7025 yellow print(as long as you have a relatively non-microphonic one) might lend themselves to the mid scooped modern tones, while some tubes that are mid fat like the RFT might be well suited for solo single note rock and slightly dirty blues work.

And although you might feel that you are chasing the tone dragon at first, and you will be, let's be honest, after you listen to your tubes in your quiver over and over again and get to know them after some months pass you will have more control and also a better set of ears than you had before. When you get to know your tubes' sonic characteristics you will then be training your pet tone dragon(s) instead of chasing a wild one. :wink:

And finally, it's better to get a few real Mullards and Tung-Sols before you get the fakie so called reissues. Vintage Tung Sols can be had for not much more than the fakies, and as far as the Mullards go, within double or less, and for Siemens, they are even nicer to my ears than the Mullards, as well as spendier, double-triple times, they are cousins, all the production facilities for Philips, Mullard, Amperex, Miniwatt, and Siemens were owned by their parent company, Philips. The Philips family shortplate tubes are very similar but not identical in construction, as well as tone, all worth having! Some posters love the telefunken smoothplate, too! Peace.