Mesa Recto 4X12 VS. Marshall 1960's Reissue

[OneMoreAugust]

I've been hearing a lot about the Marshall 1960's reissue cab, mostly how it blows away the Mesa Recto 4X12. I was wondering if anyone has done a comparison. I have a Recto 4X12, but have never played through a 60's.
So let's have a vote, and leave some reasons why....

 

[RR]

I've been hearing a lot about the Marshall 1960's reissue cab, mostly how it blows away the Mesa Recto 4X12. I was wondering if anyone has done a comparison.

That's a matter of preference. If the Marshall reissue has Celestion Greenback, they give more rounder, darker tone.

I don't know what speakers the Mesa Recto came with: Custom Celestion 90s? their OEM Celestion Vintage 30s?

In some amps, I like Greenback, in other amps I prefer Vintage 30s.

If someone says "... it blows 'that' [product] away" they really mean, I prefer 'this' over 'that' or they could be close minded and one dimensional hearing.

 

[mrdylan]

I have a marshall but I have been told over and over that the Mesa cabs are built alot better and to many sound better too.

As said above it really comes down to preference or price point even in my case.

 

[Silverwulf]

I've never heard anyone say the Marshall blows away the Mesa before. I used to own both, and I kept the Mesa if that's any indication of my preference. The build quality of the new Marshall Cabs is horrible. I had a Marshall Cab from '97 that was far superior to the one built in '04 I had. But, the Mesa, both sonically and from a construction soundpoint, was far superior to both.

 

[no soul]

First of all, what 1960s reissue?

If you are talking about the Marshall 1960 4x12, 1960 is just the model name, it has NOTHING to do with the year.

Lastly, yes it does blow away Mesa cabs. Especially if you like rock.
The 1960 has a much tighter low end response, which will doesent fart out, and a much more defined high end reponse.

Mesa recto cabs are ALL midrange, which is cool if you do NOHTING but solo. Not to mention they are fuckin overpriced!!! You can get the SAME exact cab that Mesa makes, just done up by Marshall, same speakers and all, for hundreds less than the Mesa version.


Lots and lots of people these days are opting for Mesa amps and Marshall cabs. From death metal bands like Black Dhalia Murder, to pop/prog bands like Coheed and Cambria.

If you mix a marshall1960 w/ a Mesa trad the speaker combo is ORGASMIC (v30s and gt75s). This speaker combo is exactly what you find in the Bogner Uberschall cab.

Mesa cabs are NOT built better, unless you count the tolex. Marshall tolex sucks sucks sucks! It looks tough, but its rips easily. Marshall contruction on cabs is very very good. To bad their amps fall apart easily.

And asking about which cab is better on a Mesa forum is pointless, of course the Mesa is going to win. Ask on a Marshall forum which is better, and guess which one is going to get the most votes?

And not to directly inslut anybody here, but a lot of people are stupid and think they HAVE to have the same cab as their head, otherwise it wont sound right. The reality is they just dont know any better, and cant stand to have the logos not match!

How many Gibson owners use only bright wires? OR fender owners who only use bullets?

Dont be stupid, use what works best.

Try a forum not dedicated to one maker, and see what kind of results you get, I promise you, the Marshall1960 will get more votes.


To be fair, I cant honestly say one is better than the other. For my taste and needs, no doubt, the Marshall wins.

Seriously though, do yourself a big favor and play both a Marshall1960 and Mesa trad at the same time!

 

[David.W]

Mesa Cabs are over priced, but anyone whos cracked one open will usually remark how well built they are. They do have some nice bottom end and highs, but they do come across quite mid'ish. With the recto's you can get great sounds out of them. As a first time Mesa owner after playing Marshall since 1986, I am satisfied with my Mesa 4x12, and over the moon with my TripleRec. My total Mesa sound these days smashes any Marshall sound ive ever had, (Jubillee and 1960 cab).

I am reading up on cabs for a future purchase however, and it looks like I may add a 1960a/b to my sound. Marshalls have alot of bottom end, I wouldnt say more than Mesa, but they have this strange crunch to them, and its like cat-nip when you hear it. It will make a great contribution to the sound I want. Yet I couldnt say much more in favor of them than this.

I think the chick from the Distillers is using the Mesa head, Marshall cab combo as well.

Just my 2 pents.
David.

 

[OneMoreAugust]

If the Marshall reissue has Celestion Greenback, they give more rounder, darker tone.

I don't know what speakers the Mesa Recto came with: Custom Celestion 90s? their OEM Celestion Vintage 30s?

The Marshall 1960 (NOT reissue, thanks no soul) has G12T-75 and Mesa's have V30's.
It seems that the Mesa head/marshall cab combo works good for death metal, thrashcore, grindcore, toughguy, etc.....heavier, thumping music.
The price difference isn't a whole lot bout a hundred bucks, but might be enough for some people to prefer the Marshall cab. No soul does have a point that this forum may be biased, but I wanted to hear from mesa head lovers as to which cab combination sounded better. It seems that many people on this forum use or have used lots of different cabs combinations and I wanted their input.

 

[Silverwulf]

Lastly, yes it does blow away Mesa cabs. Especially if you like rock. The 1960 has a much tighter low end response, which will doesent fart out, and a much more defined high end reponse.

Trust me, you're one of the only people you will ever hear say that unless you're listening to those are overly dedicated to Marshall. What you call a "more defined high end," many people would call "thin and shrill." There's a difference, and that's exactly what those horrible G12T-75 speakers are.

Mesa recto cabs are ALL midrange, which is cool if you do NOHTING but solo. Not to mention they are f%&# overpriced!!! You can get the SAME exact cab that Mesa makes, just done up by Marshall, same speakers and all, for hundreds less than the Mesa version.

Mesa cabs are NOT built better, unless you count the tolex. Marshall tolex sucks sucks sucks! It looks tough, but its rips easily. Marshall contruction on cabs is very very good. To bad their amps fall apart easily.

Let me dispute virtually everything you said. Have you ever played with one of these cabs? Mesa cabs are FAR from all midrange, although they will provide you with more than a 1960A cab which has very little in it. In fact, the hollow sounding 75's in the 1960A can work against you at times in a full band setting. But hey, what guitarist wants to cut through the mix and be heard anyway?

As far as price...how can you say Mesa is overpriced? Have you looked at the prices of Mesa and Marshall cabs recently? The 1960AV, which is the equivalent of the Mesa cab, costs MORE than the Mesa cab. So if you think the Mesa cabs are overpriced, then you must really think Marshall is charging too much these days considering they charge even more!

And as far as getting the same cab...not even close. You should really research what you're talking about. I don't mean to sound critical of you, but you're basically spurting off opinions here and trying to call it fact. Different construction, different speakers, etc. Here's some info for you:

First of all, Mesa cabs are made of 14-ply Baltic Birch and have steel handles and jack plates. But of course, I guess the plastic ones Marshall use are surely as durable. I don't know about you, but if I'm lifting a 100lbs+ cab, I think I'd rather do it with something a little more durable than plastic. Mesa uses rough leather corners than take wear, versus the plastic corner tips Marshall use which constantly get broken. Mesa uses custom built, smooth rolling Trak-Lock castors versus (again) the cheaper standard bolted castors that Marshall uses. And the tolex...it doesn't even get any cheaper than the paper thin tolex Marshall uses. The slightest bumb will tear holes in the tolex of those things. Mesa cabs uses a durable tolex that you literally have to beat to rip. A Mesa cab have a mere scuff in the tolex from the same impact that would rip a portion of Marshall tolex. It's just higher quality. There's also the now plastic name plates that are used for logos and in corners with stickers on them that identify the cabs versus Mesa, as well as the lesser quality piping they've switched to from recent years. With all the plastic and stickers on those cabs, are you sure you're not buying a toy?

And the speakers...don't even get me started. The speakers in Marshall and Mesa cabs are drastically different. Here's an overview of why. First off, Marshall now gets their Celestions from the newer Chinese factory, which many players have complained about the quality of. These speakers are made using newer adhesive methods which have additional tone altering properties to them. Mesa, on the other hand, was originally shipped some from the same Chinese factory, and guess what? Those Celestions did not meet their quality standards, and they refused to use them. So, all of Mesa's Celestions are still made in the England factory using old-fashioned, air-dried adhesives, which have different tone altering properties to them.

So, when you buy a Marshall cab these days, you're buying a cab loaded with Celestions that Mesa rejected because of quality issues. Plus, Mesa cabs come loaded with 8 ohm speakers, versus the 16 ohm speakers that Marshall cabs have. For those unaware, 8 ohm speakers will provide a crisper attack and tighter sound than 16 ohm variations.

So, to recap...when buying a Marshall cab these days, you're buying a cab that's made with speakers Mesa rejected because of poor quality (and 16 ohm instead of 8 ohm) that's loaded into a lesser constructed housing with paper thin tolex, plastic handles and plastic corner tips, a plastic name plate and sticker clad plate in the corner, off set by loosely glued cheaper piping...AND you pay MORE money for it. Sure, that sounds like a good idea to me, don't you think?

And asking about which cab is better on a Mesa forum is pointless, of course the Mesa is going to win. Ask on a Marshall forum which is better, and guess which one is going to get the most votes?

Again, you're wrong. I own both a Mesa Dual Recto and a Marshall JCM 800. I used to own a Mesa 4X12, and 2 Marshall 4X12 (B and a BV). The Mesa is the only one around these days. When I posted on a Marshall forum, I told them the exact same thing, and many people agreed with me, despite it being a "Marshall" board. I don't preach about Mesa because this is a Mesa forum. I just tell it like it is, regardless of where I'm posting.

 

[dylan7620]

so..... i have a 1960A and it sounds fine. the tolex thing pissed me off when loading it into a car and the back shredded. but the plasic handles? they work fine, its not like they have to be made out of carbon fiber or titanium. 100+ pounds!?! what cab is that. my marshall is light, sounds great, looks fine (marshalls look better beat up) and strolls on its casters just fine. im sure a 1960AV isnt overpriced over in the UK but the mesas will be twice as much. im not doubting that mesa cabs may be superior on more levels than one but marshall cabs are just fine.

 

[no soul]

Silverwulf, Im sorry, but you are just a Mesa fanboy and accuse me of what you are doing yourself.

You state your opinion on the GT75 as fact, so right there you are a hypocrite.

And if you wanna talk about cutting through a mix, you KNOW most EL34 based amps (ahem Marshall?) will do that much easier than a Mesa. If not, I sincerely doubt you have any experience playing out.

I dont know where you shop, but a 1960AV doesent cost more than a Recto cab, also Marshall is negotiable on their prices, Mesa is not EVER.

If you dont believe me, come to the San Francisco Bay Area. I work for guitar shop, and I sell both Mesa and Marshall products for a living, Im arround this stuff for 40+ hours a week, and Im paid to know what Im talking about, are you? And Id be more than happy to sell you a Marshall1960AV for less than a Mesa cab.

And what do metal handles and leather corners have to do with the way the cab sounds? The tolex on Marshall SUCKS. I'll be the first to say it, and if you if you think 1 or 2 extra plys of birch is going to create a huge sound difference I have some wolf tickets to sell you.

This isnt the first time this debate has come up here. Im telling you, take this to the general public, such as harmony central.com, see what they tell you.

And yes, I have PLENTY of experience with both. In my studio there are between 3 and 4 mesa cabs, amoungst others, Ive played em all. Different strokes for different folks, but watch whom you are trying to accuse of not knowing what he is talking about.

 

[Silverwulf]

Silverwulf, Im sorry, but you are just a Mesa fanboy and accuse me of what you are doing yourself.

You state your opinion on the GT75 as fact, so right there you are a hypocrite.

If you think calling names like "Mesa fanboy" will get you any credibility, I can tell you that it's just going to do the opposite. Of the 40+ head units I've owned over the years, only a couple have been Mesa. My opinion of the G12T-75 is exactly that...my opinion. Never claimed it to be fact like you suggested many times. In fact, you should read again, because I said "many people would call," never "this is fact."

And if you wanna talk about cutting through a mix, you KNOW most EL34 based amps (ahem Marshall?) will do that much easier than a Mesa. If not, I sincerely doubt you have any experience playing out.

Amps? This is what happens when someone can't dispute what you're saying...they change the subject and start trying to take the focus away from the fact that they no ground to stand upon. Case in point...since you've apparently forgotten, we're talking about cabs and/or speakers. So, you talking about EL34 amps has nothing to do with us talking about cabs. Apples and oranges, and a poor excuse to divert attention away from the true topic at hand.

Not that it matters...but as far as playing out, I have plenty of studio and gigging experience.

I dont know where you shop, but a 1960AV doesent cost more than a Recto cab, also Marshall is negotiable on their prices, Mesa is not EVER.

That's because Mesa wants to preserve their reputation and doesn't play games like Marshall. Mesa sells at a fixed price so that you know what you should be paying for a Mesa product instead of playing the "negotiation game." And yes, the Marshall 1960AV does cost more than the Mesa cab. Right now, the lowest Marshall AV cabs sell in the US are $949, and the Mesa cabs are $899. If you know of somewhere selling AV cabs less than that, I suggest you keep it to yourself, because that's the bottom line for Marshall right now, and they will reprimand and possibly revoke the dealership of anyone caught selling them for less in the US.

...I work for guitar shop, and I sell both Mesa and Marshall products for a living, Im arround this stuff for 40+ hours a week, and Im paid to know what Im talking about, are you? And Id be more than happy to sell you a Marshall1960AV for less than a Mesa cab.

First off, please tell me where you work and how much you sell both of those cabs for. If the prices are anything lower than what you see typed above, then your company is liable for discipline from the corresponding company.

And please don't make me laugh about the "I work for a music store" non-sense. Do you not realize how much fun is made of the people who work at music stores? Why do you think places like Guitar Center are banned from soliciting on many boards? It takes no music knowledge to work at a music store. No more than you have to be a food expert to work at the grocery store. They don't pay you to be knowledgable, and there's no knowledge pre-requisite to work at one.

And what do metal handles and leather corners have to do with the way the cab sounds?

Again, we were talking about the actual build quality of the cab there, not it's sound which was addressed in another statement. Quit trying to link unrelated things together.

And yes, I have PLENTY of experience with both. In my studio there are between 3 and 4 mesa cabs, amoungst others, Ive played em all. Different strokes for different folks, but watch whom you are trying to accuse of not knowing what he is talking about.

Same to you, my friend. I don't mean to bash, but you show ignorance throughout a lot of your statements. Don't you find it quite amusing that I presented you with an entire segment on why the Mesa cab was better both sonically and from a construction standpoint, and yet you never disputed a word of it? All you did was post saying "I know what I'm talking about, and I bet I can find other cronies on-line who agree with me." Well, good for you if you know of people who are as jaded as you... But, I'm still waiting on a rebuttal to my comments from you on why the Marshall is better. I gave you plenty of cold hard fact, and you never even claimed I was wrong. So, allow me to repost it again just in case you missed the novel I typed last time. When you're ready to rebut what I'm saying instead of trying to avoid it like you did in your last post, I'll be waiting. When you do, please present more fact than "I tried out this cab," because saying that you can find others to agree with you on the net hardly proves a point like the info I presented. So, here it is again, for your reading pleasure...enjoy!

First of all, Mesa cabs are made of 14-ply Baltic Birch and have steel handles and jack plates. But of course, I guess the plastic ones Marshall use are surely as durable. I don't know about you, but if I'm lifting a 100lbs+ cab, I think I'd rather do it with something a little more durable than plastic. Mesa uses rough leather corners than take wear, versus the plastic corner tips Marshall use which constantly get broken. Mesa uses custom built, smooth rolling Trak-Lock castors versus (again) the cheaper standard bolted castors that Marshall uses. And the tolex...it doesn't even get any cheaper than the paper thin tolex Marshall uses. The slightest bumb will tear holes in the tolex of those things. Mesa cabs uses a durable tolex that you literally have to beat to rip. A Mesa cab have a mere scuff in the tolex from the same impact that would rip a portion of Marshall tolex. It's just higher quality. There's also the now plastic name plates that are used for logos and in corners with stickers on them that identify the cabs versus Mesa, as well as the lesser quality piping they've switched to from recent years. With all the plastic and stickers on those cabs, are you sure you're not buying a toy? Razz

And the speakers...don't even get me started. The speakers in Marshall and Mesa cabs are drastically different. Here's an overview of why. First off, Marshall now gets their Celestions from the newer Chinese factory, which many players have complained about the quality of. These speakers are made using newer adhesive methods which have additional tone altering properties to them. Mesa, on the other hand, was originally shipped some from the same Chinese factory, and guess what? Those Celestions did not meet their quality standards, and they refused to use them. So, all of Mesa's Celestions are still made in the England factory using old-fashioned, air-dried adhesives, which have different tone altering properties to them.

So, when you buy a Marshall cab these days, you're buying a cab loaded with Celestions that Mesa rejected because of quality issues. Plus, Mesa cabs come loaded with 8 ohm speakers, versus the 16 ohm speakers that Marshall cabs have. For those unaware, 8 ohm speakers will provide a crisper attack and tighter sound than 16 ohm variations.

So, to recap...when buying a Marshall cab these days, you're buying a cab that's made with speakers Mesa rejected because of poor quality (and 16 ohm instead of 8 ohm) that's loaded into a lesser constructed housing with paper thin tolex, plastic handles and plastic corner tips, a plastic name plate and sticker clad plate in the corner, off set by loosely glued cheaper piping...AND you pay MORE money for it. Sure, that sounds like a good idea to me, don't you think? Wink

 

[David.W]

On a positive note...

I dont think ive learnt so much about cabs from one thread before .

Now please, carry on!

 

[Humbility]

Personally...I dont give a rats anus what anyone knows about what cabs or amps. I have now settled on the Marshall 1960A cab for my Series 2 Single recto. I dont care if its made better or worse than the Mesa cabs....just sounds better. I run the 8 ohm out into the 16 ohm input on the cab....and I like it. Actually I more than like it. You all have valid points....but for MY personal tastes and budget...the used 1960A is it!

Hum

 

[Silverwulf]

...but for MY personal tastes and budget...the used 1960A is it!

That's all that matters!

 

[Humbility]

Thumbs up to Silverwulf. Sry Haven't been around in a while ppl. Big changes going on in this cats life. Music has been holding me up though. Thank God for it. Actually playing shows again...and what do you know...some of em I am actually getting paid for.

Hum

 

[Broken]

I own the 1960A and a Recto 2x12.

They are very different beasts. They both kick arse in the right context.

 

[OneMoreAugust]

You all have valid points....but for MY personal tastes and budget...the used 1960A is it!

Now that's a straight forward answer! What did you like about the 1960A that the Mesa didn't have, besides price?

Silverwulf, thanks for shutting that nonsense down. I was getting sick of hearing from him and his 'you suck-I rule at everything' approach to human conversation. It was just a simple question of preference. I didn't want to hear insults and impertinent corrections of my own poor knowledge of Marshall cabs' titles. :evil:

 

[Michael]

Well put! :wink:

 

[RR]

If you dont believe me, come to the San Francisco Bay Area. I work for guitar shop, and I sell both Mesa and Marshall products for a living, Im arround this stuff for 40+ hours a week, and Im paid to know what Im talking about, are you?:shock:

What store do you work for? I visit the Bay Area often. Is your store really an Authorized MESA Dealer?

Mesa cabs are NOT built better ... :?

Can you point this out?

With my years of woodworking experience, I build my own enclosures and looked inside many manufactures enclosures. Comparing MESAs and Marshalls its not even close which is sturdier. I would think sturdier means "better built."

 

[socialparasite]

Very good posting silver :lol: